J2b as an IE lineages of the ancient Illyrians & Mycenaeans

[Fatherland]

Thank you.
but I will not follow your advice,
AND I NEITHER SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS

I suggest personally to you, to search how Greek you are,
especially in PC's.
(and strongly recomended if you have A+ type of blood)

Greek Macedonia is 30-40% I2a1b and 25-30% R1a alone. You have major Slavic ancestry there, especially from the assimilated Bulgarians and Medieval Slavs who are "Makedonian Greeks" now.

[Fatherland]

Thank you.
but I will not follow your advice,
AND I NEITHER SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS

I suggest personally to you, to search how Greek you are,
especially in PC's.
(and strongly recomended if you have A+ type of blood)

Read Fustan's post above you. He is right, you are not.

[Fustan]

Well, Aegean Macedonia did not only have Slavs. It would not be out of the question to consider that R1b, V13 that accompanies the massive frequency of Slavic Y-DNA (R1a and I2a-Din which makes 40% minimum of the region) in Greek Macedonia is also Bulgarian, Vlachic or Albanian.


Very little "Original Makedonian" there, as Yetos has on his profile.

[Bergin]

Greek Macedonians are largely of Slavic ancestry R1a and I2a1b of 50-60% frequency. It is even higher than many of the Slavic inhabitants of Republic of Macedonia.

I wouldn't really stick my nose into everything if I was a Greek with Slavic medieval newcomer ancestry.

You are offending people almost out of the blue.
There has been already sufficient bad blood regarding the balkans - many threads dedicated to it.
So, please calm down and realize that you and Yetos probably have much more in common than you thing.

And please take also things with a bit of philosophy, this is a new research field with new papers and data coming out monthly and yearly. In few years all data will start to converge and we will be able to make 'well accepted' conclusions. Till that moment just wait patiently.

cheers

[Fatherland]

You are offending people almost out of the blue.
There has been already sufficient bad blood regarding the balkans - many threads dedicated to it.
So, please calm down and realize that you and Yetos probably have much more in common than you thing.

And please take also things with a bit of philosophy, this is a new research field with new papers and data coming out monthly and yearly. In few years all data will start to converge and we will be able to make 'well accepted' conclusions. Till that moment just wait patiently.

cheers

The only reason Modern Greeks would have common ancestry with Albanians is through the Albanian medieval migrations southwards to Greece.

[Fustan]

So, please calm down and realize that you and Yetos probably have much more in common than you thing.

Can you elaborate here?

[Yetos]

The only reason Modern Greeks would have common ancestry with Albanians is through the Albanian medieval migrations southwards to Greece.

man I know what I am,
and my genetics also
and I make peace with them.

I want to ask you.
do you know all your genes?
and how much deep and autosomal etc?
have you made peace with them?

[Fatherland]

man I know what I am,
and my genetics also
and I make peace with them.

I want to ask you.
do you know all your genes?
and how much deep and autosomal etc?
have you made peace with them?

I know everything, I am in peace.

Amateurs are not however. You have made stupid, ignorant comments since day one here.
So don't try to be moral police.

[Bergin]

Can you elaborate here?

I dont think this is the right place. J2b should be the topic.

So briefly, If you dont want to feel alone in this big world, well greeks and macedonians and italians and all balkans are those you should feel close to. All have defects, and so do albanians. So better learn to tolerate if you want to be tolerated. If not, choose a megalomaniac and lonely exile.
Being proud of what you are means also to accept other peoples pride, culture and differences.

[Fustan]

I dont think this is the right place. J2b should be the topic.

Why did you bring it up, then?

So briefly, If you dont want to feel alone in this big world, well greeks and macedonians and italians and all balkans are those you should feel close to.

I feel closest to Albanians. Albanians are very diverse regionally, my village is completely different from say, Fatherland's village.
His village is completely different from mine, but we are both Albanians, and we are both J2b2. This is real diversity to me.

. All have defects, and so do albanians.

Right.

Being proud of what you are means also to accept other peoples pride, culture and differences.

I am very proud that our neighbors (especially the Greeks) have adopted many parts of our culture and I have by no means disqualified it's legitimacy.

[Fatherland]

I dont think this is the right place. J2b should be the topic.

So briefly, If you dont want to feel alone in this big world, well greeks and macedonians and italians and all balkans are those you should feel close to. All have defects, and so do albanians. So better learn to tolerate if you want to be tolerated. If not, choose a megalomaniac and lonely exile.
Being proud of what you are means also to accept other peoples pride, culture and differences.

I feel closest to Albanians, nothing else. I don't suck up to anyone. I am very open minded, but you can't force me to like someone.

This thread is about J2b2-L283 - only Europeans carry this, you wont find any single Asian or African with it except someone with recent Balkan ancestry.

J2b1-M205 is a Levantine newcomer since the early centuries AD and it spans in tiny percentages in Europe.

There's more than 15 000 years of the J2b split into J2b1 and J2b2. About the same age as the R1 split into R1a and R1b.

[Fatherland]

The Steppe ancestry in the Ancient sample comes from earlier Indo-European migrations carried by Yamnaya R1b-L23. People Central & South East Europe were quite high on Steppe back then.

The rest is WHG & EEF.

Steppe ancestry is quite responsible for the light features such as blond hair and blue eyes as I have that myself.

Every single J2b2-L283 you find in the Steppe or rest of Europe is from the Balkans.



Trojet made very wise, civilized posts in this forum and certain people chose to ignore him due to their own biased agendas, how fair is this?

[Yetos]

The Steppe ancestry in the Ancient sample comes from earlier Indo-European migrations carried by Yamnaya R1b-L23. People Central & South East Europe were quite high on Steppe back then.

The rest is WHG & EEF.

Steppe ancestry is quite responsible for the light features such as blond hair and blue eyes as I have that myself.

Every single J2b2-L283 you find in the Steppe or rest of Europe is from the Balkans.



Trojet made very wise, civilized posts in this forum and certain people chose to ignore him due to their own biased agendas, how fair is this?

Blond and Blue eyes?

I thought Blondism is originated in Baltic sea
and has to do with humidity,

[Fatherland]

Blond and Blue eyes?

I thought Blondism is originated in Baltic sea
and has to do with humidity,

Steppe is high in those countries. It's genetic mutation from a Steppe/EHG-like source.

WHGs had dark skin and dark hair.

[Yetos]

Steppe is high in those countries. It's genetic mutation from a Steppe-like source.

hmm

let me keep my precautions,

Blondism is a genetic mutation of Baltic, as far as I know.
meaning spredd from Baltic to elsewhere.

anyway,

since L283 search your Z.

have a good night.

and the idea of Bergin is correct,

to find what you trully are,
you must also know what was Historically,
the thing you want, and the thing you are.

that is peace.

[Fatherland]

since L283 search your Z.

have a good night.

and the idea of Bergin is correct,

You and Bergin are wrong. He did not elaborate on anything.


Would have to go way past 15000 years back for that, as it is beyond M241.



Blue eyes originated in the Black Sea region.

[Yetos]

Would have to go way past 15000 years back for that, as it is beyond M241.

I really want to tell you this
L283 is marker of many modern groups,

and some Z are connected with certain groups.

that is all.

my DNA is strongly caucasian and Aegean and neolithic
possibly nothing with IE.

G2a3a and X2

[Fatherland]

I really want to tell you this
L283 is marker of many modern groups,

and some Z are connected with certain groups.

that is all.

my DNA is strongly caucasian and Aegean and neolithic
possibly nothing with IE.

G2a3a and X2

J2b2-L283 is only found among Europeans so far, Ancient and Modern, so it has its core here.

Yes, G2a was the dominant group among the Anatolian Farmers. It wasnt Caucasian, as it did not carry any CHG admixture.
Only Med components from Anatolian Farmers so far.

Today, G2a is low everywhere in Europe except in Georgia and Sardinia to some extent, because it was killed off by others.

The Eupedia G-clade map values do not add up with the basal G map of Europe.

[Yetos]

J2b2-L283 is only found among Europeans so far, Ancient and Modern, so it has its core here.

Yes, G2a was the dominant group among the Anatolian Farmers. It wasnt Caucasian, as it did not carry any CHG admixture.
Only Med components from Anatolian Farmers so far.

Today, G2a is low everywhere in Europe except in Georgia and Sardinia to some extent, because it was killed off by others.

The Eupedia G-clade map values do not add up with the basal G map of Europe.

I ll send email.

[Aaron1981]

Perhaps no *living* Albanian Y lineages actually descend from Normans. If even the west Europeans can't figure out who is Norman in their own damn country, how the hell would you when the connection is even more obscure?

The L23 (xL51) with DYS385ab of 11,11 is definitely not from the Normans as it is pan-Balkan but peaks in Albanians and Greeks, most likely arriving from the north west or possibly Italy if you follow the phylogeny.

I don't see evidence that J2b2 is anything other than Middle Eastern in origin and has nothing to do with the steppes or ancient Europe.

[Aaron1981]

Steppe is high in those countries. It's genetic mutation from a Steppe/EHG-like source.

WHGs had dark skin and dark hair.

Not all. Mesolithic R1b in Baltic, Romania, and Ukraine were carriers of light skin mutations. WHG is on the steppe, but not as much as EHG. WHG-EHG bifurcates in mesolithic Ukraine.

[Fatherland]

Perhaps no *living* Albanian Y lineages actually descend from Normans. If even the west Europeans can't figure out who is Norman in their own damn country, how the hell would you when the connection is even more obscure?

The L23 (xL51) with DYS385ab of 11,11 is definitely not from the Normans as it is pan-Balkan but peaks in Albanians and Greeks, most likely arriving from the north west or possibly Italy if you follow the phylogeny.

I don't see evidence that J2b2 is anything other than Middle Eastern in origin and has nothing to do with the steppes or ancient Europe.

R1b-L23 is of Yamnaya steppe extraction, not Italian. All males in the Ancient Yamnaya samples were R1b-L23.



For the J2b2 comment, elaborate or don't post anymore. You sound like the kindergarten of the primitive years of haplogroupism(2005-2011).

There is already J2b2-L283 Ancient European sample, so you failed.

[Bergin]

I don't see evidence that J2b2 is anything other than Middle Eastern in origin and has nothing to do with the steppes or ancient Europe.

Any chance that you can back up this statement with some evidence?

[Fatherland]

J2 is as Middle Eastern as R1 is South Asian. There really is no point of arguing over this shit again.

[Yetos]

Good night Guys

I liked berkin's idea/proposal.

until we really know what true Illyrians, or true Myceneans were,
we are still modern Greeks and modern Albanians and whatever else we are.
and assume since we are.
that the 'old ones' were the same.
so by knowing better what they were,
we can understand what we are.

I my shelf have no IE ethnicity by my DNA,
my ethinicity is heritaged or forced to grand grand ... parents
either by blood, either by common memories, either by common acts, either by ... etc etc

Good night all