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Thread: More genomes from Mesolithic Romania and Spain (Gonzales-Fortes et al. 2017)

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympus Mons View Post
    @Maciamo.
    Speak clearly. That second migration into steppe was the shulaveri shomu with r1b L23 . right?
    I don't know yet, but I'd say it was just before Shulaveri Shomu. However that doesn't preclude that L23 could also have been present in Shulaveri Shomu, as it has been present in the region until this day.

    Second...
    How long have you been stating that? Show me your earlieast (2015/2016) comments and posts saying that.

    I predicted long ago that once it starts to be obvious the role of my shulaveri in the r1b history....many would start to post as if they knew all along. Are you one of those?
    I predicted in 2009 the migration of R1b from the South Caucasus circa 6000-5000 BCE. Use the search engine if you want to find those posts.
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    I'm fascinated by this GB1 individual. It is Late Neolithic in Balkans, almost Bronze Age, and she has 3/4 of genome WHG! Remaining quarter is EEF. From Bronze Age Hungarian genome we know that in Bronze Age there was explosion of WHG admixture in this area. A little bit of Steppe too, but mostly WHG, up to 50% of total genome.
    Where is the source of WHG at this time?
    My guess for quite some time is West Yamnaya, but they might have been coming from farther North like Belarus, and we know WHG lasted in Latvia till BA.
    Looks more and more like the EHG/Steppe by Bronze Age pushed remaining WHGs into Balkans.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    The Bronze age genomes from Hungary which carry a lot of WHG share the most IBD with Poles and other Slavs. Maybe WHG-rich populations from SE Europe closely related to those Bronze age Hungarians are important to Slavic genesis or at least Eastern European genesis.

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    When I suggested, right after Haak et al came out, I think, that there was perhaps a reservoir of WHG somewhere in eastern or northeastern Europe which might have gone into the genesis of these LNBA populations, and that perhaps even SHG might be involved, didn't you, following Eurogenes, say that was impossible? I'm pretty sure I have that right.

    It's always good to look at different points of view and to be open minded.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    The Bronze age genomes from Hungary which carry a lot of WHG share the most IBD with Poles and other Slavs. Maybe WHG-rich populations from SE Europe closely related to those Bronze age Hungarians are important to Slavic genesis or at least Eastern European genesis.
    Absolutely they are. Modern Poles are more related and mostly descendents from Hungarian BA than from CW and Unetice.

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    Just an addendum to post #23 above, Nasidze 2009 found 48% of R1b among Azeri Talysh, 14% among Iranian Talysh, 22% among the Gilaks and 14% among the Mazandarans. Based on Grugni 2012, this is all R1b-L23 (xP312, U106).

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    It's to be believed that a pop in N-Carpathians took advantage from close contacts with Late CTC (Tripolye)... and took part in the earlier Slavs genesis (among them a lot of Y-I2a1); already it seems that Y-I2a2 (males!) took the strong side upon Neolithic Y-G2a males or exchanged females (neolithic mt-DNA) with them, what could be seen in ALP culture (Hungary); surely they were not the same I2a lineages but it shows that exchanges had already taken place with ex-Mesolithic HG's playing a big role at the mergins of the LBK world, after their apparent "dispariton" in Early Neolithic - some metric anthropology extracts seems confirming the mixture in some place of Hungary even before BA or Pit Grave introgressions -

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