23andme and AncestryDNA, post your Southern European results

[bigsnake49]

AncestryDNA results: 47%Italian/Greek, 31%East European, 19% Caucasus. About what I expected. My folks have lived in Thrace, first Eastern Thrace then Western Thrace for a long time.

 

[Sile]

I already posted mine in a different post. But I go 3 dots for Spain and 1 dot for Portugal. I find it odd that Sile has 5 dots for Italy

Until the time that 23andme place more interest and data into the genetics of the alpine peoples , they will fail, they care little for the alps and any admixture in that area..............I see the same flaws for the Pyrenees area

 

[Dibran]

AncestryDNA results: 47%Italian/Greek, 31%East European, 19% Caucasus. About what I expected. My folks have lived in Thrace, first Eastern Thrace then Western Thrace for a long time.

Try uploading your AncestryDNA file to https://ytree.morleydna.com/extractFromAutosomal

They are usually quite accurate in the prediction of your paternal YDNA. 9 times out of 10 they are correct in terminal placement. Almost 100 percent of the time in general placement. R1a/I2a tend to be more common in Thrace given Slavic settlements. Let us know what you get!

 

[bigsnake49]

Try uploading your AncestryDNA file to MorleyDNA

They are usually quite accurate in the prediction of your paternal YDNA. 9 times out of 10 they are correct in terminal placement. Almost 100 percent of the time in general placement. R1a/I2a tend to be more common in Thrace given Slavic settlements. Let us know what you get!

How am I supposed to read the results?
From the most likely box on the lefthand side: R1b1a2a1a2a1b3~2 R1b-L421 (R1b-L433, R1b-L88). That's with the experimental tree:
Using ISOGG tree: R1b-L23 (R1b-L49, R1b-L150)

 

[Dibran]

How am I supposed to read the results?
From the most likely box on the lefthand side: R1b1a2a1a2a1b3~2 R1b-L421 (R1b-L433, R1b-L88). That's with the experimental tree:
Using ISOGG tree: R1b-L23 (R1b-L49, R1b-L150)

R1b-L23 is very common in the Southern Balkans. Likely tied to Dorians in your case. Its very common in Albanians Greeks and Vlachs. You would need to test further to see what clusters you belong to. It would give an idea on recent ancestry, and possibly more specific clade assignment. L23 was discovered in Vucedol sample bronze age Balkans. Seems to have a strong prominence in Eastern Thrace given what you mentioned above.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1b_Y-DNA.shtml

 

[bigsnake49]

R1b-L23 is very common in the Southern Balkans. Likely tied to Dorians in your case. Its very common in Albanians Greeks and Vlachs. You would need to test further to see what clusters you belong to. It would give an idea on recent ancestry, and possibly more specific clade assignment. L23 was discovered in Vucedol sample bronze age Balkans. Seems to have a strong prominence in Eastern Thrace given what you mentioned above.

Thanks, it is as it should be. Neolithic farmers settling in fertile land and staying there through the centuries. I am having a living DNA test done and we'll see what it says.

 

[Dibran]

Thanks, it is as it should be. Neolithic farmers settling in fertile land and staying there through the centuries. I am having a living DNA test done and we'll see what it says.

While we Albanians and Greeks have much Neolithic autosomal ancestry, YDNA R1a/R1b is due to indo european arrival from the steppe. R1b-L23 is believed to be responsible for carrying the Proto-Greek and Proto-Albanian languages to the Balkans. Let us know what you get with LivingDNA! I took the test as well. It should give a more downstream YDNA.

 

[bigsnake49]

What do these admixtures mean? and when did these mixtures happen? In ancient or more recent times?

 

[Dibran]

What do these admixtures mean? and when did these mixtures happen? In ancient or more recent times?

It’s too hard to really tell. I recommend going to the genetics papers thread to get a wider understanding of autosomal population genetics.

 

[Eochaidh]

Six company comparison

My 23andMe results just came in and they got my Italian grandfather somewhat better than the others. His mother was from Frosinone and his father was from L'Aquila. My other grandparents were 2 Irish and 1 West Jersey Quaker. West Jersey was the name of the first Quaker colony in the Delaware Valley and distinct from William Penn's colony. AncestryDNA has separate Genetic Communities for them and they generally were poor people from the Pennine Mountain area of northwest England in the west Yorkshire area. My mtDNA is H4a1a4b which points to Scandinavia and Yorkshire.

I used the Timeline section to group Italian and French & German for him.

 

[Angela]

My 23andMe results just came in and they got my Italian grandfather somewhat better than the others. His mother was from Frosinone and his father was from L'Aquila. My other grandparents were 2 Irish and 1 West Jersey Quaker. West Jersey was the name of the first Quaker colony in the Delaware Valley and distinct from William Penn's colony. AncestryDNA has separate Genetic Communities for them and they generally were poor people from the Pennine Mountain area of northwest England in the west Yorkshire area. My mtDNA is H4a1a4b which points to Scandinavia and Yorkshire.

I used the Timeline section to group Italian and French & German for him.

View attachment 10306

Well, if you add the Italian, Broadly Southern European, and Broadly European together, you get 16%. Some of the northwest European is from him too, so, yes, it's pretty close, especially because it's one grandparent.

The others are terrible.

 

[bigsnake49]

I got my results from livingDNA, here they are:

Europe East 60.9%
Europe South 14.4%
Europe North and West 9.9%
GB & Ireland 5.8%
Unassigned 6.2%
Near East 2.8%
Levant 1.7%

Y-Haplogroup R-M269, no further subclade
MtDNA Haplogroup U5a1b

To say I am surprised is an understatement. I will export the autosomal and import it in the GEDMatch.

Eurogenes V2 K15 Results:

#	Population	Percent
1	East_Med	21.22
2	Atlantic	15.92
3	Baltic	15.07
4	West_Med	14.92
5	West_Asian	13.41
6	North_Sea	8.19
7	Eastern_Euro	8.01
8	Red_Sea	1.42
9	Sub-Saharan	0.84
10	South_Asian	0.58
11	Oceanian	0.38
12	Amerindian	0.03
13	Northeast_African	0.02

 

[Angela]

I got my results from livingDNA: here they are:

Europe East 60.9%
Europe South 14.4%
Europe North and West 9.9%
GB & Ireland 5.8%
Unassigned 6.2%
Near East 2.8%
Levant 1.7%

Y-Haplogroup R-M269
MtDNA Haplogroup U5a1b

To say I am surprised is an understatement. I will export the autosomal and import it in the GEDMatch.
Eurogenes V2 K15 Results:

#	Population	Percent
1	East_Med	21.22
2	Atlantic	15.92
3	Baltic	15.07
4	West_Med	14.92
5	West_Asian	13.41
6	North_Sea	8.19
7	Eastern_Euro	8.01
8	Red_Sea	1.42
9	Sub-Saharan	0.84
10	South_Asian	0.58
11	Oceanian	0.38
12	Amerindian	0.03
13	Northeast_African	0.02

The results are probably typical for that company for a Greek.

You'll be able to tell once you run the gedmatch calculators.

I would suggest that you take 23andme. At least they'll probably figure out that you're from the Balkans somewhere.

 

[leperrine]

Haplogroup J2a1h2a1 L70 [L397, L398]

Here's mine from AncestryDNA.

Europe West: 41
Ireland/Scotland/Wales: 25
Great Britain: 18
Scandinavia: 8
Iberian Peninsula: 4
Europe East: 2
Europe South: 1
Middle East: <1

GEDMatch

Eurogenes V2 K15

North_Sea: 41.42
Atlantic: 25.27
West_Med: 9.76
Baltic: 8.58
Eastern_Euro: 7.66
West_Asian: 4.08
Red_Sea: 1.37

Population Sharing

Orcadian: 4.54
North_Dutch: 5.86
West_Norwegian: 5.9
Southwest_English: 6.56
West_Scottish: 6.74
Norwegian: 6.85
Southeast_English: 6.93
Danish: 7.17
Irish: 7.32
Swedish: 8.62
West_German: 8.84
North_German: 9.58
South_Dutch: 10.8
North_Swedish: 12.37
French: 13.6
East_German: 16.3
Southwest_Finnish: 18.94
Hungarian: 20.45
Spanish_Galicia: 20.86
Austrian: 21.2



Eurogenes K36

Basque: 3.90
Central_Euro: 9.40
East_Balkan% 0.86
East_Central_Euro: 5.55
Eastern_Euro: 2.00
Fennoscandian: 6.83
French: 9.49
Iberian: 13.03
Italian: 6.67
North_Atlantic: 17.45
North_Caucasian: 3.81
North_Sea: 20.56
West_Med: 0.43



MDLP K16 Modern

Neolithic: 30.83
NorthEastEuropean: 26.62
Steppe: 23.11
Caucasian: 19.23

 

[bigsnake49]

The results are probably typical for that company for a Greek.

You'll be able to tell once you run the gedmatch calculators.

I would suggest that you take 23andme. At least they'll probably figure out that you're from the Balkans somewhere.

My GEDMatch K15 calculator comparison:

Population	Ancestry	LivingDNA
North_Sea	6.81	8.19
Atlantic	17.38	15.92
Baltic	13.14	15.07
Eastern_Euro	10.51	8.01
West_Med	15.42	14.92
West_Asian	14.56	13.41
East_Med	19.46	21.22
Red_Sea	1.02	1.42
South_Asian	0.26	0.58
Southeast_Asian	0.16	-
Siberian	-	-
Amerindian	0.08	-
Oceanian	0.15	0.38
Northeast_African	0.53	-
Sub-Saharan	0.52	0.84

 

[Angela]

My GEDMatch K15 calculator comparison:

Population	Ancestry	LivingDNA
North_Sea	6.81	8.19
Atlantic	17.38	15.92
Baltic	13.14	15.07
Eastern_Euro	10.51	8.01
West_Med	15.42	14.92
West_Asian	14.56	13.41
East_Med	19.46	21.22
Red_Sea	1.02	1.42
South_Asian	0.26	0.58
Southeast_Asian	0.16	-
Siberian	-	-
Amerindian	0.08	-
Oceanian	0.15	0.38
Northeast_African	0.53	-
Sub-Saharan	0.52	0.84

What does it give as your population matches, though. Just click on Oracle.

 

[bigsnake49]

For V2 K15, living DNA input:

Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	Greek	4.54
2	Bulgarian	6.35
3	Greek_Thessaly	8.31
4	Romanian	9.61
5	Central_Greek	10.83
6	Italian_Abruzzo	11.15
7	Ashkenazi	12.09
8	East_Sicilian	12.1
9	Tuscan	12.44
10	West_Sicilian	12.45
11	Serbian	13.65
12	South_Italian	13.71
13	North_Italian	15.95
14	Moldavian	17.72
15	Italian_Jewish	18.42
16	Sephardic_Jewish	18.54
17	Algerian_Jewish	19.05
18	Croatian	19.26
19	Austrian	19.65
20	Hungarian	20.73

Depending on the calculator and the project I cluster with either Greeks or Bulgarians. Since my folks came from Eastern Thrace it does not surprise me that I sometimes cluster with Bulgarians or Romanians. Thracians and Dacians occupied that area in antiquity.

 

[bigsnake49]

For comparison between living DNA and AncestryDNA:

Single Population Sharing:
	LivingDna		Ancestry
#	Population (source)	Distance	Population (source)	Distance
1	Greek	4.54	Greek	6.01
2	Bulgarian	6.35	Bulgarian	7.34
3	Greek_Thessaly	8.31	Romanian	10.25
4	Romanian	9.61	Greek_Thessaly	10.39
5	Central_Greek	10.83	Italian_Abruzzo	11.8
6	Italian_Abruzzo	11.15	Central_Greek	12.03
7	Ashkenazi	12.09	Tuscan	12.91
8	East_Sicilian	12.1	West_Sicilian	13.07
9	Tuscan	12.44	East_Sicilian	13.28
10	West_Sicilian	12.45	Ashkenazi	13.3
11	Serbian	13.65	Serbian	13.8
12	South_Italian	13.71	South_Italian	14.9
13	North_Italian	15.95	North_Italian	15.93
14	Moldavian	17.72	Moldavian	17.99
15	Italian_Jewish	18.42	Sephardic_Jewish	19.4
16	Sephardic_Jewish	18.54	Croatian	19.4
17	Algerian_Jewish	19.05	Italian_Jewish	19.49
18	Croatian	19.26	Austrian	19.55
19	Austrian	19.65	Algerian_Jewish	20.07
20	Hungarian	20.73	Hungarian	21.24

 

[Angela]

As I suspected, since Greek comes out first on both tests, your "ancestry" scores must be typical for Greeks.

That doesn't mean I think the clusters are correct, however, because I don't. That's a separate issue.

 

[bigsnake49]

As I suspected, since Greek comes out first on both tests, your "ancestry" scores must be typical for Greeks.

That doesn't mean I think the clusters are correct, however, because I don't. That's a separate issue.

I agree with you. Their raw data is pretty close to Ancestry's. Their reference populations are way off.