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Thread: Great maps from "Indo-european demic diffusion model" 06.2107

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    Regular Member Lukas's Avatar
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    Great maps from "Indo-european demic diffusion model" 06.2107

    Fresh paper. I don't have time to read it but maps are great!

    https://indo-european.info/indo-european-de...ion-model-2.pdf


    Click to open in large format

    Paleolithic epoch


    Mesolithic epoch


    Neolithic 5000-4000 B.C.


    Eneolithic 4000-3100 B.C.


    Copper age 3100-2600 B.C.


    Late Copper age 2660-2250 B.C.



    Early Bronze Age 2250-1750 B.C.


    Middle Bronze Age 1750-1250 B.C.



    Late Bronze Age 1250-750 B.C.


    Iron age 750-250 B.C.


    250 B.C. - 250 A.D.


    250-750 A.D.


    750-1300 A.D.

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    Quite a long read, I must say. So basically, the author paints his comprehensive picture about Steppe as IE expansion, with lots of suppositions, on the back of all the ancient genetic research that we already know. Anti-steppiests will be furious. ;) Is the author Spanish? I hope he is not lynched by our in house anti-steppiest Iberians. ;)

    Lot's of work went into these maps for sure. I'll have a closer look later.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    He cites Bomhard, Kortlandt and peers a lot. I think that and his haplomania (he contends that R1b-M269 = IE) limits the usefulness of his work.

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    Those are beautiful maps indeed. Did skim it; he seems to use a hybrid naming of the haplogroups, but good that he uses markers like L23 instead of just the very unclear long names, so it is clear which groups he means. Going to read it later on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoZ View Post
    He cites Bomhard, Kortlandt and peers a lot. I think that and his haplomania (he contends that R1b-M269 = IE) limits the usefulness of his work.
    Haplomania, lol, indeed.

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    nice maps

    I have some doubt about the Late Bronze Age 1250-750 B.C. map regarding Italy. Urnfield proper was only the Canegrate-Golasecca group (RSFO derived), cremation in the rest of the peninsula was brought by the Terramare people after the exodus from the Po Plain (population dropped from 150.000 persons to almost 0 in the LBA). At least, this is what i read in my books....i know there are different points of views though, we'll see what aDNA will reveal

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    Anyone can write a non-peer reviewed essay and draw some pretty maps.

    I would spend my time closely reading and analyzing papers from Reich, and labs of similar quality.


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    He did one mistake though. Painting Parthians along Medes and Persians during Late Bronze Age. The Parthians didn't exist until the late Iron Age.

    The Parthians were born out of the Medes. And were simply a new dynasty of a population of predominantly Median ancestry with an early Parni Elite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Haplomania, lol, indeed.
    I'd read an ealier edition of his book before -- a good example of what I mean is his contention that Corded Ware spoke Yukaghir-Uralic because it had R1a. Perhaps this is true, but at least some additional evidence would make for a more convincing case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Quite a long read, I must say. So basically, the author paints his comprehensive picture about Steppe as IE expansion, with lots of suppositions, on the back of all the ancient genetic research that we already know. Anti-steppiests will be furious. ;) Is the author Spanish? I hope he is not lynched by our in house anti-steppiest Iberians. ;)

    Lot's of work went into these maps for sure. I'll have a closer look later.
    Badajoz is at some 15 km of the Portuguese frontier and I'm at 1100 km from him, so this job is for Olympus... ;)
    "What I've seen so far after my entire career chasing Indoeuropeans is that our solutions look tissue thin and our problems still look monumental" J.P.Mallory

    "The ultimate homeland of the group [PIE] that also spread Anatolian languages is less clear." D. Reich

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Anyone can write a non-peer reviewed essay and draw some pretty maps.

    I would spend my time closely reading and analyzing papers from Reich, and labs of similar quality.
    Well, I even don't read works where I'm not quoted 30 times as minimum...

    Now seriously, geneticists trying to do somewhat similar as the Reich lab... with the BB paper I can't understand even how it is to be published if their methology is like don't see don't hear don't say.

    For the work of Quiles the continental maps are necessary and seem backed by published papers. A necessary work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlukas View Post
    Fresh paper. I don't have time to read it but maps are great!
    These maps are taken from one website, or maybe the author is the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    These maps are taken from one website, or maybe the author is the same.
    Yes he gives links to the maps with high quality in the pdf. I think it's his website also.
    Last edited by Lukas; 05-06-17 at 10:42.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoZ View Post
    I'd read an ealier edition of his book before -- a good example of what I mean is his contention that Corded Ware spoke Yukaghir-Uralic because it had R1a. Perhaps this is true, but at least some additional evidence would make for a more convincing case.
    That's what I understood too, that he thinks that East Yamnaya (R1b) who migrated into Western Europe where the IE speakers, and CW R1a were not. But hey, it is hard to argue with spekulation using different spekulation. :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by berun View Post
    Well, I even don't read works where I'm not quoted 30 times as minimum...

    Now seriously, geneticists trying to do somewhat similar as the Reich lab... with the BB paper I can't understand even how it is to be published if their methology is like don't see don't hear don't say.

    For the work of Quiles the continental maps are necessary and seem backed by published papers. A necessary work.
    It seems that this is his left over from his PhD thesis (preface), and his supervisor did not put his name on it.
    Honestly I don't know if this maps make any sense or not, graphically they are very pretty.
    BUT, throughout the paper there is not a single line regarding math or calculations. So the borders and vectors are not coming from any data calculation but from interpretation. Data should talk by itself without any interpretation!

    Honestly more than a scientific paper, this works reads more like badly written proposal for future research. Still lacks major question marks and predictions to confute the theory.

    As such I do respect his vision and opinion, but SCIENCE IS NOT AN OPINION.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergin View Post
    It seems that this is his left over from his PhD thesis (preface), and his supervisor did not put his name on it.
    Honestly I don't know if this maps make any sense or not, graphically they are very pretty.
    BUT, throughout the paper there is not a single line regarding math or calculations. So the borders and vectors are not coming from any data calculation but from interpretation. Data should talk by itself without any interpretation!

    Honestly more than a scientific paper, this works reads more like badly written proposal for future research. Still lacks major question marks and predictions to confute the theory.

    As such I do respect his vision and opinion, but SCIENCE IS NOT AN OPINION.
    That's right, it is all about interpretation of existing data. I hope that maps are accurate enough, as they are so pretty and very detailed, and should be very usefull for years to come.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoZ View Post
    I'd read an ealier edition of his book before -- a good example of what I mean is his contention that Corded Ware spoke Yukaghir-Uralic because it had R1a. Perhaps this is true (...)
    Yeah... there is a chance that this is true: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA

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    MarkoZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    Yeah... there is a chance that this is true: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA

    Way to miss the point. Back at you.

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