J2b2-L283 (proto-illyrian)

You were lying that Y146400 is basal to Z2507 when its clear they are both brother clades formed 4400 years ago from a same ancestor (Z615).
With Z2507 being more widespread and with higher TMRCA.



Look, Y146400 is not Basal to Z2507 but its smaller brother clade with lower TMRCA. Nothing else. It has matches in Albania and tons of brother clades there and its spread with Europeans most likely from Albania since the closest relatives except them selves (1900 years TMRCA) are in Albania (3000 years TMRCA).

I know you are disabled and that you will write some stupidity again.. Btw you are reported.


jRE6HMD.jpg

JY14600 most recent common ancestor to basal z597 is 1000BC. It says so on the TMRCA. Thats what it stands for.

While J-Z2507 is 2400BC. I don't know what to tell if you cannot comprehend this. It has 1000 year or more difference from the time they both split z 597.
2400 BC
Vs
1000BC

And there is more lebanese JY14600 than albanian.
While the lebanese and albanian split in 50 bc.
Ultimatly we can say that we likely derived from kura axes culture.
Its the source of JL283 most likely.

Also at 615 was not in germany at 5400 BC
It was in georgia/ armenia. When you find ancient samples of 615 in germany, that would be interesting. On the other hand kura axes culture does reach toward lebanon and by anatolia.
 
Even tho i draw it to you, you still don't get it, and the worst of all is that you are saying that i can't comprehend something .....


JY14600 most common ancestor to basal z597 is 1000BC. It says so on the TMRCA. Thats what it stands for.

JY14600 does not exist, you are as usually typing trash, perhaps you thought on J-Y146400.
No J-Y146400 is not connected to other Z597 samples closer then 4400 years as formed date shows you and not "1000BC" as you said, not TMRCA, but even i explain you this in previous post you are still lying and refusing to accept facts and how to read Yfull tree.

Both Albanian Z2507 and Albanian Y146400 are brother clades, both formed 4400 ybp, There is only one smaller branch-off under Albanian Y145400 with SNP FGC64029 that is Lebanese and it has TMRCA only 1900 years. Thats about it.



While J-Z2507 is 2400BC. I don't know what to tell if you cannot comprehend this. It has 1000 year or more difference from the time they both split z 597.
2400 BC
Vs
1000BC

Again Z2507 and Y146400 split from Z615, in the same time 4400 ybp.



And there is more lebanese JY14600 than albanian.
While the lebanese and albanian split in 50 bc.

Lebanese L283 are neglectable, they have low TMRCA and relatives in Albania and Europe.

Lebanese and Albanian didnt split 50 BC but 3000 ybp. Do you see that Lebanese/Spanish cluser is formed 3000 ybp ??? That is when they split.





This is European haplogroup and you are ancestor of Europeans colonising America in 17 century :)
 
Here you can read how your European haplogroup got to Dominican republic and Caribbean Sea:


The European colonization of the Americas describes the history of the settlement and establishment of control of the continents of the Americas by most of the naval powers of Western Europe.

Political map of the America in 1794​


Spanish conquistador style armour​


American Discovery Viewed by Native Americans (Thomas Hart Benton, 1922). European "discovery" and colonization would have disastrous effects on the indigenous peoples of the Americas and their societies.​

Systematic European colonization began in 1492, when a Spanish expedition headed by the Italian explorer Christopher Columbus sailed west to find a new trade route to the Far East but inadvertently landed in what came to be known to Europeans as the "New World". He ran aground on the northern part of Hispaniola on 5 December 1492, which the Taino people had inhabited since the 9th century; the site became the first permanent European settlement in the Americas. Western European conquest, large-scale exploration and colonization soon followed. Columbus's first two voyages (1492–93) reached the Bahamas and various Caribbean islands, including Hispaniola, Puerto Rico, and Cuba. In 1497, Italian explorer John Cabot, on behalf of England, landed on the North American coast, and a year later, Columbus's third voyage reached the South American coast. As the sponsor of Christopher Columbus's voyages, Spain was the first European power to settle and colonize the largest areas, from North America and the Caribbean to the southern tip of South America.
The Spaniards began building their American empire in the Caribbean, using islands such as Cuba, Puerto Rico, and Hispaniola as bases. The North and South American mainland fell to the conquistadors, with an estimated 8,000,000 deaths of indigenous populations, which has been argued to be the first large-scale act of genocide in the modern era.[1] Florida fell to Juan Ponce de León after 1513. From 1519 to 1521, Hernán Cortés waged a campaign against the Aztec Empire, ruled by Moctezuma II. The Aztec capital, Tenochtitlan, became Mexico City, the chief city of what the Spanish were now calling "New Spain". More than 240,000 Aztecsdied during the siege of Tenochtitlan. Of these, 100,000 died in combat.[2] Between 500 and 1,000 of the Spaniards engaged in the conquest died. Later, the areas that are today California, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Texas, Missouri, Louisiana, and Alabama were taken over by other conquistadors, such as Hernando de Soto, Francisco Vázquez de Coronado, and Álvar Núñez Cabeza de Vaca. Farther to the south, Francisco Pizarroconquered the Inca Empire during the 1530s. The de Soto expedition was the first major encounter of Europeans with North American Indians in the eastern half of the United States. The expedition journeyed from Florida through present-day Georgia and the Carolinas, then west across the Mississippi and into Texas. De Soto fought his biggest battle at the walled town of Mabila in present-day Alabama on October 18, 1540. Spanish losses were 22 killed and 148 wounded. The Spaniards claimed that 2,500 Indians died. If true, Mabila was the bloodiest battle ever fought between native Americans and Europeans in the present-day United States.[3] The centuries of continuous conflicts between the North American Indians and the Anglo-Americans were secondary to the devastation wrought on the densely populated Meso-American, Andean, and Caribbean heartlands.[4]
The British colonization of the Americas started with the unsuccessful settlement attempts in Roanoke and Newfoundland. The English eventually went on to control much of Eastern North America, The Caribbean, and parts of South America. The British also gained Florida and Quebec in the French and Indian War. [5]
Other powers such as France also founded colonies in the Americas: in eastern North America, a number of Caribbean islands and small coastal parts of South America. Portugal colonized Brazil, tried colonizing the eastern coasts of present-day Canada and settled for extended periods northwest (on the east bank) of the River Plate. The Age of Exploration was the beginning of territorial expansion for several European countries. Europe had been preoccupied with internal wars and was slowly recovering from the loss of population caused by the Black Death; thus the rapid rate at which it grew in wealth and power was unforeseeable in the early 15th century.[6]
Eventually, most of the Western Hemisphere came under the control of Western European governments, leading to changes to its landscape, population, and plant and animal life. In the 19th century over 50 million people left Western Europe for the Americas.[7] The post-1492 era is known as the period of the Columbian Exchange, a dramatically widespread exchange of animals, plants, culture, human populations (including slaves), ideas, and communicable disease between the American and Afro-Eurasian hemispheres following Columbus's voyages to the Americas.
Henry F. Dobyns estimates that immediately before European colonization of the Americas there were between 90 and 112 million people in the Americas; a larger population than Europe at the same time. [8



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_colonization_of_the_Americas]
 
Even tho i draw it to you, you still don't get it, and the worst of all is that you are saying that i can't comprehend something .....




JY14600 does not exist, you are as usually typing trash, perhaps you thought on J-Y146400.
No J-Y146400 is not connected to other Z597 samples closer then 4400 years as formed date shows you and not "1000BC" as you said, not TMRCA, but even i explain you this in previous post you are still lying and refusing to accept facts and how to read Yfull tree.

Both Albanian Z2507 and Albanian Y146400 are brother clades, both formed 4400 ybp, There is only one smaller branch-off under Albanian Y145400 with SNP FGC64029 that is Lebanese and it has TMRCA only 1900 years. Thats about it.





Again Z2507 and Y146400 split from Z615, in the same time 4400 ybp.





Lebanese L283 are neglectable, they have low TMRCA and relatives in Albania and Europe.

Lebanese and Albanian didnt split 50 BC but 3000 ybp. Do you see that Lebanese/Spanish cluser is formed 3000 ybp ??? That is when they split.





This is European haplogroup and you are ancestor of Europeans colonising America in 17 century :)

Pfff. Lebanese JY14600 is negligle because it has low relatives in albania. Than that means albanians arent very closely related. Just that one sample vs multiple lebanese samples.

Their most recent common ancestor is 1950ybp TMRCA to z597

You can have two people that are J-Z597
And have different TMRCA. They will end up being two different J-Z597 lineages . And have further different mutations. Just like how I am J-z600 or J L283 and they are, yet we dont have common ancestors until 5400 ybp, 3400 BC.


It doesnt matter when its formed.
It only matters when they have a common ancestor.


Conclusion, my Jz627 clade is late kuraxes anatolian / lebanese clade.
JY14600 Is Lebanese
Yours Jz2507 and others is european.
 
Blabbing about spaniards in the carribean wouldnt matter. My z627 clade came from lebanese during phonecian era into southern spain. Made a pit stop at sardinia with J -yp29 left clades from kura axes culture that had existed since 3000bc.
 
Pfff. Lebanese JY14600 is negligle because it has low relatives in albania. Than that means albanians arent very closely related. Just that one sample vs multiple lebanese samples.

Their most recent common ancestor is 1950ybp TMRCA to z597

You can have two people that are J-Z597
And have different TMRCA. They will end up being two different J-Z597 lineages . And have further different mutations. Just like how I am J-z600 or J L283 and they are, yet we dont have common ancestors until 5400 ybp, 3400 BC.


It doesnt matter when its formed.
It only matters when they have a common ancestor.


Conclusion, my Jz627 clade is late kuraxes anatolian / lebanese clade.
JY14600 Is Lebanese
Yours Jz2507 and others is european.



Its neglectable because its very rare in Lebanon and in Semitic speaking countries, only exists in one or two branches like this in Lebanon with TMRCA 2000 years and with all other relatives in Europe, among all Europe countries, with closest matches in Albania.

lol

Also its ancient DNA found in Armenia and Dalmatia with Steppe mtDNA and admixture. Also both Albanian and Armenian belong to IE languages.
 
Blabbing about spaniards in the carribean wouldnt matter. My z627 clade came from lebanese during phonecian era into southern spain. Made a pit stop at sardinia with J -yp29 left clades from kura axes culture that had existed since 3000bc.

hahahahahhahhahahahahahaahhahaahahahha


You are part of Spanish colonization lol, at least that is obvious.
 
Its neglectable because its very rare in Lebanon and in Semitic speaking countries, only exists in one or two branches like this in Lebanon with TMRCA 2000 years and with all other relatives in Europe, among all Europe countries, with closest matches in Albania.

lol

Also its ancient DNA found in Armenia and Dalmatia with Steppe mtDNA and admixture. Also both Albanian and Armenian belong to IE languages.

Mtdna and autosomal dna does not matter at all. KNOW YYY?

i am 627, I do not have a west eurasian mtdna, so does that mean my Ydna came from east asia? Obviously Not. Men do not pass down mtdna, only women do

And I dont have steppe autosomal ancestry. So what is the point of that argument? We know it was in the steppe because of ancient ydna samples, not because it had steppe autosomal dna,. We know because ydna where kura axes culture inhabited.

Autosomal dna can be lost in a few generations or greatly diminished. It wouldnt matter.


Language can change and be lost for another. This has happened many times in history. Dont understand the language arguements for something that is dna in a very strict father to son hereditary fashion

I can move to china, have half chinese kids, his kids will remain in china there after. Wouldnt make his y dna origin before china chinese.
 
hahahahahhahhahahahahahaahhahaahahahha


You are part of Spanish colonization lol, at least that is obvious.
It is, but colonization happened at 1492- 1800 AD

Not 2000BC - 146 BC.
 
Mtdna and autosomal dna does not matter at all. KNOW YYY?



hahahahahahahahhaha why are you making me laugh ????
We are talking about ancient samples here, ofc that everything matters.

Do you know that you got European haplogroup that spread to Caribbean Sea with Spanish and British colonisations?

Do you know that it happened in 16 and 17 century ?
 
There were also Italian immigrants to Dominican republic 1880's, they could have brought this Z600* there
 
hahahahahahahahhaha why are you making me laugh ????
We are talking about ancient samples here, ofc that everything matters.

Do you know that you got European haplogroup that spread to Caribbean Sea with Spanish and British colonisations?

Do you know that it happened in 16 and 17 century ?

Wheres the ancient samples of -J-Z2507 in albania than? Where are they? Georgia. Not albania.

There is none. Kura axes culture was steppe anyways. And it reached reached to anatolia and northern lebanon.

But comparing a modern albanian to an ancient sample not the same thing either, because like I said, autosomal dna changes, and mtdna is only passed via by females.

So it doesnt matter really at all when we talk about JY14600.

The spanish iberian peninsula was colonized by north africans and caliphates and their soldiers from lebanon middle east area and north africans.

But carthage phonecia also settled southern spain way before that.
 
There were also Italian immigrants to Dominican republic 1880's, they could have brought this Z600* there
I know my paternal line earlier than that bro. I know all my ancestors on my dominican side at that time. Every dominican line to 1880s.
None were italian. And the only one that matters for Ydna is my direct paternal line.
I know my paternal line way before 1880.
 
I know my paternal line earlier than that bro. I know all my ancestors on my dominican side at that time. Every dominican line to 1880s.
None were italian. And the only one that matters for Ydna is my direct paternal line.
I know my paternal line way before 1880.


Even tho there is chance they were Italians, highest chances go to Spain due to their colonisation.

I doubt that pre European Caribbean population had any L283....



It probably arrived somewhere thru Balkans/Italy and then towards Spain and Caribbean Sea in 16 and 17 century..
 
Even tho there is chance they were Italians, highest chances go to Spain due to their colonisation.

I doubt that pre European Caribbean population had any L283....



It probably arrived somewhere thru Balkans/Italy and then towards Spain and Caribbean Sea in 16 and 17 century..

If its spain its carthagenian/ phonecians. Thats for sure.

Italian is a low chance. The only way it could be italian is if it were actually sardinian. Which could make sense since spain colonized sardinia at a point. And sardinia was colonized by phonecians before that. Phonecians used mercenaries. Could have been a mercenary from a surviving kura axes anatolian / lebanese.
 
If its spain its carthagenian/ phonecians. Thats for sure.

Italian is a low chance. The only way it could be italian is if it were actually sardinian. Which could make sense since spain colonized sardinia at a point. And sardinia was colonized by phonecians before that. Phonecians used mercenaries. Could have been a mercenary from a surviving kura axes anatolian / lebanese.



If 16 century Spanish colonies were Phoenicians then yes, its Phoenician :D

Whatever makes you more happy.

BTW Phoenicians didnt sail across the Atlantic Ocean to Caribbean Sea, on the other hands Spaniards did. In Spain , Italy and Balkans there is Plenty L283 in various clades just as in Europe, others are minor off-shots, just as your Caribbean L283 branch is.
 
If 16 century Spanish colonies were Phoenicians then yes, its Phoenician :D

Whatever makes you more happy.

BTW Phoenicians didnt sail across the Atlantic Ocean to Caribbean Sea, on the other hands Spaniards did. In Spain , Italy and Balkans there is Plenty L283 just as in Europe, others are minor off-shots, just as your Caribbean L283 branch

Spaniards were already a mixes bag of celts goths french romans and southern spain had few phonecians and berbers. My ydna clade is highly atypical so my line doesn't come from spaniards of other lines. Including other spanish J-L283 we know of. My most distant ancestor with them is 5400ybp just like any JL283. Including georgians and armenians

The closest things to my clade are only shown to exist in georgia using ancient samples. And if we talk modern, turkey and sardinia. Just because mainland european branches have so many different added markers I wouldn't have.

While we have other clades from lebanon diverged much more recent from basal z597.
 
Spaniards were already a mixes bag of celts goths french romans and southern spain had few phonecians and berbers. My ydna clade is highly atypical so my line doesn't come from spaniards of other lines. Including other spanish J-L283 we know of. My most distant ancestor with them is 5400ybp just like any JL283. Including georgians and armenians

The closest things to my clade are only shown to exist in georgia using ancient samples. And if we talk modern, turkey and sardinia. Just because mainland european branches have so many different added markers I wouldn't have.

While we have other clades from lebanon diverged much more recent from basal z597.


What are your STR markers, how do you know you dont have matches in Europe, there will come match sooner or later.

You dont have matches because you are isolated off-shot and probably bottlenecked elsewhere. But origin of L283 is very clear..

It could have come to Caribbean sea most early in 16 century with Spaniards, probably with Balkan or Italian origin.
 
Spaniards were already a mixes bag of celts goths french romans and southern spain had few phonecians and berbers. My ydna clade is highly atypical so my line doesn't come from spaniards of other lines. Including other spanish J-L283 we know of. My most distant ancestor with them is 5400ybp just like any JL283. Including georgians and armenians
The closest things to my clade are only shown to exist in georgia using ancient samples. And if we talk modern, turkey and sardinia. Just because mainland european branches have so many different added markers I wouldn't have.
While we have other clades from lebanon diverged much more recent from basal z597.

Your closest STR match is someone with a Spanish sounding surname. Forget about fantasizing of Phoenicians, Carthagenians, etc. There is practically zero L283 in those regions. The only L283 cluster in Lebanon has Balkan/European origin, as has been demonstrated to you here countless of times. You are either not bright enough to get it, or you refuse to accept it. There can be 5000 Lebanese who are J-FGC64029, the fact of the matter is they all share a very recent ancestor who lived ~1900 ybp, the Phoenicians had basically disappeared by then. And these guys are not even in your clade.

And WTH is this talk about "Georgians"? The two ancient samples were not even from modern day Georgia. The MBA sample was from southernmost Russia, the other was from LBA Armenia. Regardless, neither of them are in the J-Z600 branch, where you are, as both of them are negative for Z627 as you can see here: https://j2-m172.info/links/scientific-papers/#ancient

So your closest matches remain all those who are under J-Z600. All four parallel J-Z600 lines are European. One of them is formed by your sample. The Istanbul sample is technically a border region between Balkans and Anatolia (nevermind he has a Greek surname). The third parallel line, J-YP157, should have a TMRCA going well into the bronze age as the Sardinians samples share only 4 SNPs amongst themselves. Finally, the fourth parallel line, J-Z585, has a TMRCA of ~5400 ybp with all European basal samples as well. So your ancestors were most likely in Europe before the Phoenicians were even mentioned. So I agree with Dema here, you should be looking at some Roman legions from Balkans or Italy as your ancestors who colonized Iberria. (Mainland Italy, like the Balkans, is highly under tested).
 
Your closest STR match is someone with a Spanish sounding surname. Forget about fantasizing of Phoenicians, Carthagenians, etc. There is practically zero L283 in those regions. The only L283 cluster in Lebanon has Balkan/European origin, as has been demonstrated to you here countless of times. You either are too dumb to get it, or you refuse to accept it. There can be 5000 Lebanese who are J-FGC64029, the fact of the matter is they all share a very recent ancestor who lived ~1900 ybp, the Phoenicians had basically disappeared by then. And these guys are not even on your clade.

And WTH is this talk about "Georgians"? The two ancient samples were not even from modern day Georgia. The MBA sample was from southernmost Russia, the other was from LBA Armenia. Regardless, neither of them are in the J-Z600 branch, where you are, as both of them are negative for Z627 as you can see here: https://j2-m172.info/links/scientific-papers/#ancient

So your closest matches remain all those who are under J-Z600, and not some "Georgians". All three parallel J-Z600 lines are European. The Istanbul sample is technically a border region between Balkans and Anatolia. The third parallel clade, J-Z585, has a TMRCA of 5400 ybp with all European samples as well. So your ancestors were most likely in Europe before the Phoenicians were mentioned. So I agree with Dema here, you should be looking at some Roman legions from Balkans or Italy as your ancestors who colonized Iberria. (Mainland Italy, like the Balkans, is highly under tested)

I agree, its probably connected with Roman legions in Spain, with Balkan origin and later in 16 century colonised Caribbean Sea where his isolated branch managed to survive.

According to one research about 60 % of Dominican Republic DNA is European, 30 % is Sub-Saharan and 10 % is Native American. There is no wonder that he got classic European haplogroup.



The overall genetic makeup of the Dominican Republic's population is estimated to be approximately 60% European, 30% Black African, and 10% Native American on average according to recent genealogical DNA testing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Dominican_Republic#Genetics_and_ethnicities


He never mentioned Spanish sounding match :)
 

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