J2b2-L283 (proto-illyrian)

It wouldn't be ssa or chinese because JL283 is caucus origin from Georgia armenia region. We already know this. But we have levantine origin of a spefic basal J-L283 branch and kura axes culture is a culture that inhibited the areas of J L283.

This was only technically and theoretically speaking, you were already explained things by Trojet. You should listen to him, you two have same haplogroup and he is J2-M172 project admin.

Saying thanks would not hurt you. You cant always contradict people with whatever comes to your mind. Especially because your knowledge is on beginner stage.
 
Yes, please. I'm only interested in this part. I invited you before to exchange info and phone numbers and meet.

Perhaps it seems too peaceful and childish here but I'll do my best to insult you in the worst possible way and get you really fired up to meet me and pull my ears.

You can't see from a forum profile what's inside my mind and what we want to do to Osmanlis
There was this story about you losing it after some member of the Balkanforum found out your phone number and called you. Why would you now offer people to exchange numbers?
 
With new results overview of some "basal" Balkan J-Z631's:

J-Z631>Y155546 Vlore, Albania
J-Z631>Y144394 Vlore, Albania
J-Z631>Z1043>BY38004 Vojvodina (Serb ?)
J-Z631>Z1043>FGC55768 Greek, Phocis
J-Y98609* Bosniak, Sandzak
J-Z1043* (Z8424-) Croat
J-Z631*/Z1043* Greek/Thaci-Korbi Albania/Basarabi Romania


So plenty of basal Z631 in Western Balkans.
 
There was this story about you losing it after some member of the Balkanforum found out your phone number and called you. Why would you now offer people to exchange numbers?
I'm not a member on any other forum besides this. I used to visit anthrogenica from time to time for info but that's it. You got me confused.

And I had never heard of Balkanforum before.
 
Or perhaps you can't read. This is what I wrote on the J2 page:

As a result, both the Illyrians and the Mycenaeans (and possibly the Albanians) would be descended from Middle to Late Bronze Age Steppe migrants to the Southeast Europe, in a migration that was particularly rich in J2b lineages from the Middle Volga region.

The Albanian (and Kosovar) population is one of the most homogeneous in Europe in term of shared recent ancestry according to Ralph & Coop 2013. This means that the Albanians expanded from a very small population relatively recently, which explains why strong founder effects completely reshaped the Y-DNA frequencies. That is how E-V13 and J2b became to dominant among Albanians and Kosovars. That expansion probably took place during the Middle Ages, so based on the current data it is impossible to know whether E-V13 and J2b entered the Albanian gene pool during the Bronze Age, the Iron Age, the Classical Antiquity, or even the Middle Ages. Hence my reserve on the subject.

that's true.present day Albania and Kosovo couldn't have had more than 100 000 people circa 1500s after the ottoman conquest and the blood path that followed.
100 000 being very very generous as the ottoman censuses in the Albanian pashaliks(carried out regionally from the Turkalbanians who were the ruling class)300 years later report close to 200 000 population
 
that's true.present day Albania and Kosovo couldn't have had more than 100 000 people circa 1500s after the ottoman conquest and the blood path that followed.
100 000 being very very generous as the ottoman censuses in the Albanian pashaliks(carried out regionally from the Turkalbanians who were the ruling class)300 years later report close to 200 000 population
I think you are wrong and also you are an uneducated person. Probably 100.000-150.000 Albanians lived at that time(circa 1500s) only in Peloponnese, let alone other regions of Greece and of course Albania.
And stop using these derogatory names products of your filthy chauvinistic idologie. The most easy thing is to mock and laugh the greeks and to ridicule your attempts to invent history, but it is supposed that we are here to discuss, right?
 
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This haplogroup is mostly found among Albanians, and seems to be most diverse there.
J2b2-L283 was also found in Bronze Age croatia (and it's funny Macaiamo doesn't mention Albanians on the J2b2 page on Eupedia, there seems to be a strong bias on his part for some strange reason).

Wondering if any non-albanians have this haplogroup and if so, where you're from.

[h=1]J2b2a1-L283 origins by diversity and subgroups with focus on Jewish lineages[/h]https://j2-m172.info/2015/10/j2b2a1-l283-origins-by-diversity-and-subgroups-focus-jewish-lineages/
 
Does anybody noticed that map of frequency J2b2-L283 perfectly corresponds to migration of Bulgars? Regions where J2b2-L283 is most abundant correspond to ancient regions of Volga Bulgaria and Kutmichevitsa. In 670 Bulgar khan Kuber led migration of more than 100.000 people to Balkan. Kutmichevitsa later become one of most important centers of Bulgarian Empire.Since J2b2-L283 is very low in other Balkan nations compared with Albanians. I assume that high majority of J2b2-L283 originated from Bulgars. However after Bulgars migration to Balkan, there were migrations of other Pontic–Caspian steppe people to Balkans. Remains of Pechenegs were settled by force in Balkan. And after Pechenegs next migrants were Cumans. Most probably all three groups together Bulgars, Pechenegs and Cumans were significant contributors of spreading J2b2-L283 on Balkan.
 
Does anybody noticed that map of frequency J2b2-L283 perfectly corresponds to migration of Bulgars? Regions where J2b2-L283 is most abundant correspond to ancient regions of Volga Bulgaria and Kutmichevitsa. In 670 Bulgar khan Kuber led migration of more than 100.000 people to Balkan. Kutmichevitsa later become one of most important centers of Bulgarian Empire.Since J2b2-L283 is very low in other Balkan nations compared with Albanians. I assume that high majority of J2b2-L283 originated from Bulgars. However after Bulgars migration to Balkan, there were migrations of other Pontic–Caspian steppe people to Balkans. Remains of Pechenegs were settled by force in Balkan. And after Pechenegs next migrants were Cumans. Most probably all three groups together Bulgars, Pechenegs and Cumans were significant contributors of spreading J2b2-L283 on Balkan.

Thats absolutely wrong and J2b2-L283 distribution is literally the opposite of bulgar presence in Albania. j2b2-l283 is most concentrated in north-west Albanians, highland clans. Its least present in south-east Albanians around Ohrid, which is where the Bulgarian presence and influence was highest, and the centre of Kutmichevitsa. Its around Ohrid here that we find the highest I2a-Slav in Albanians of any other Albanian region.
 
Thats absolutely wrong and J2b2-L283 distribution is literally the opposite of bulgar presence in Albania. j2b2-l283 is most concentrated in north-west Albanians, highland clans. Its least present in south-east Albanians around Ohrid, which is where the Bulgarian presence and influence was highest, and the centre of Kutmichevitsa. Its around Ohrid here that we find the highest I2a-Slav in Albanians of any other Albanian region.

And also, let's remind this Serb that J2b2-L283 was found in the West Balkans, radiocarbon dated at ~3600 ybp. Yet, he is suggesting it came only in the last 1400 years with the Bulgars and such. Not only is he embarrassing himself in an international forum, he is also showing his true colors...
 
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I din't say that J2b2-L283 came with Bulgars only and exclusively to Balkan. There were many different waves of migrations from Pontic–Caspian steppe to and through Balkan, including Indo-European migrations during the time. There must be good reason why J2b2-L283 in Albanians is much more abundant than in their Balkan neighbors. My assumption is that most probably this could be contribution of arrivals of Bulgars, Pechenegs and Cumans. Since there were later several Bulgars rebellion around Kutmichevitsa against Byzantines it is obvious that those people lived there in significant number. What is Albanian view about those people? Even if they assimilated they must left genetic traces.
 
I din't say that J2b2-L283 came with Bulgars only and exclusively to Balkan. There were many different waves of migrations from Pontic–Caspian steppe to and through Balkan, including Indo-European migrations during the time. There must be good reason why J2b2-L283 in Albanians is much more abundant than in their Balkan neighbors. My assumption is that most probably this could be contribution of arrivals of Bulgars, Pechenegs and Cumans. Since there were later several Bulgars rebellion around Kutmichevitsa against Byzantines it is obvious that those people lived there in significant number. What is Albanian view about those people? Even if they assimilated they must left genetic traces.
Albanians have the lowest Turkic/Mongoloid admixture of the entire Balkans, no sign of these admixtures in autosomal or yDNA. Only the nations around us absorbed some of it.

East-Asian-admixture.gif
 
....or brought it
 
There is nothing wrong with submitted map. It is logical and it is easy to estimate that as you go further from Mongolian grassland Turkic genetic contribution will decline. From this map is obvious that Turkic genetic contribution is low in Pontic–Caspian steppe. Only exception is this part south of Volga where Kalmyks settled. Pontic–Caspian steppe was home of Scythians for millenniums. We know they they were mostly R1b. J2b2 entered Pontic–Caspian steppe from Asia long time ago. After that J2b2 spread together with R1b in many different migration waves. After Hunic invasion Scythians were exposed to turkification. So they were exposed to cultural assimilation (language replacement). Those non assimilated stayed as Alans. Mongol invasion wiped out both Cumans and Alans from Pontic–Caspian steppe ending genetic domination of R1b there. According to historical sources Cumans were even described as blond and Caucasian looking. There are no reason why we should not consider that absolute majority of middle age Turkic speaking migrants from Pontic–Caspian steppe to Balkan were actually assimilated Scythians and mainly carriers of R1b+J2b2.
 
Albanians have the lowest Turkic/Mongoloid admixture of the entire Balkans, no sign of these admixtures in autosomal or yDNA. Only the nations around us absorbed some of it.

East-Asian-admixture.gif


??????? :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:

ha? since when?

Do you believe that you post?

What about Altaic component? ??? ???? :grin:

Can you tell us which European countries have most?
 
There is nothing wrong with submitted map. It is logical and it is easy to estimate that as you go further from Mongolian grassland Turkic genetic contribution will decline. From this map is obvious that Turkic genetic contribution is low in Pontic–Caspian steppe. Only exception is this part south of Volga where Kalmyks settled. Pontic–Caspian steppe was home of Scythians for millenniums. We know they they were mostly R1b. J2b2 entered Pontic–Caspian steppe from Asia long time ago. After that J2b2 spread together with R1b in many different migration waves. After Hunic invasion Scythians were exposed to turkification. So they were exposed to cultural assimilation (language replacement). Those non assimilated stayed as Alans. Mongol invasion wiped out both Cumans and Alans from Pontic–Caspian steppe ending genetic domination of R1b there. According to historical sources Cumans were even described as blond and Caucasian looking. There are no reason why we should not consider that absolute majority of middle age Turkic speaking migrants from Pontic–Caspian steppe to Balkan were actually assimilated Scythians and mainly carriers of R1b+J2b2.

We already saw with huns and avar paper that their typical groups are Q, N, and even a lot of I2a. The only J2 that was found was J2a, which is found more in Greeks. Obvious troIling is obvious.
 
We already saw with huns and avar paper that their typical groups are Q, N, and even a lot of I2a. The only J2 that was found was J2a, which is found more in Greeks. Obvious troIling is obvious.
About I2a: not Huns nor Avars but Hungarians mixed with Slavs.
 
Not Huns nor Avars but Hungarians mixed with Slavs (I2a, R1a).

"Y-chromosome haplogroups from Hun, Avar and conquering Hungarian period nomadic people of theCarpathian Basin"

"Most individuals buried with rich grave goods show Mongoloid characters indicating innerAsian origin of the Avar elite, which is also supported by their artifact types, titles (e.g. khagan) and institutionsrecognized to be derived from Inner Asian Rourans"

"The Avar age remains are anthropologically extremelyheterogeneous, with considerable proportion of Mongoloid and Europo-Monoloid elements reaching 20-30%"

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/04/03/597997.full.pdf
 
Well, you have forgotten group C. Anyway, if you have time please check genetics of Gagauz. Those are real descendants of Bulgars.
 
Albanians of Illyrian ancestry should be mostly R1B clades, not J2.
Albanians have highest R1B percentage from Eastern Europe.
Original Ilyrian language has clearly change, under the influence of Dacians, Thracians, Goths and Slavs and the original Illyrian language should have been from Romance-Celtic group of languages, not a Satem language,as Albanian is currently.
The R1B from Eupedia, given for Albanians, is not the correct one.
The actual percentage of R1B in Albania is 23%.
Also, Illyrians should have had E-V13.
This E-V13 and R1B should have been shared between Ilyrians and SE Celtic tribes.
J2 should be from Dacians,Thracians,Greeks.
 

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