Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 53 of 58 FirstFirst ... 3435152535455 ... LastLast
Results 1,301 to 1,325 of 1450

Thread: J2b2-L283 (proto-illyrian)

  1. #1301
    Banned
    Join Date
    25-10-21
    Posts
    29

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b-L283

    Country: Brazil



    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    Nothing really surprising there. This sample is in the "South Asian" branch, so not under J2b-L283. Also, the currently oldest J2b-Z2432 sample comes from Bustan, Uzbekistan .
    Thanks for clarifying , I did not know of this BMAC Uzbek sample, that is very interesting, there is a basal J-M102 living guy on Yfull from Uzbekstan after all, the ties to the region are indeed quite relevant.

  2. #1302
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    11-02-18
    Posts
    1


    Country: Albania



    3 members found this post helpful.
    Maciamo

    Simply put, the reason that the Balkans does not move forward is because of the Nationalistic myth building of Serbian and Greek nationalists. So long as they can deny what is more or less a fact, that Albanians lived in or about where they live today for thousands of years (and certainly before the Slavic expansion into the Balkans), they’ll use that denial to justify massacring Albanians in the name of cleansing Europe from the “Turkic-Islamic” menace (of course, they kill plenty of Catholic and Orthodox Albanians along the way, but oh well, casualties). Autosomal DNA shows that people from the Balkans are related, and that is because of Yugoslavs being an admixture of Slavic and indigenous people, as well as gene exchange between all populations in the area for about 1,500 years. Nonetheless, when you have all sorts of proof (linguistic, genetic, cultural remnants, etc.) that point to Albanians being a continuous population in the Balkans, this is why Balkanite says that the “benefit of the doubt” should no longer be given. The “doubt” does not “benefit” truth, it goes to benefit chauvinists in the Balkans who wish to continue the Dark Ages in the area as opposed to moving forward into modernity.

  3. #1303
    Regular Member mount123's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-12-21
    Posts
    368


    Country: Kosovo



    Quote Originally Posted by Anthsini View Post
    Maciamo
    Simply put, the reason that the Balkans does not move forward is because of the Nationalistic myth building of Serbian and Greek nationalists. So long as they can deny what is more or less a fact, that Albanians lived in or about where they live today for thousands of years (and certainly before the Slavic expansion into the Balkans), they’ll use that denial to justify massacring Albanians in the name of cleansing Europe from the “Turkic-Islamic” menace (of course, they kill plenty of Catholic and Orthodox Albanians along the way, but oh well, casualties). Autosomal DNA shows that people from the Balkans are related, and that is because of Yugoslavs being an admixture of Slavic and indigenous people, as well as gene exchange between all populations in the area for about 1,500 years. Nonetheless, when you have all sorts of proof (linguistic, genetic, cultural remnants, etc.) that point to Albanians being a continuous population in the Balkans, this is why Balkanite says that the “benefit of the doubt” should no longer be given. The “doubt” does not “benefit” truth, it goes to benefit chauvinists in the Balkans who wish to continue the Dark Ages in the area as opposed to moving forward into modernity.
    Read the thread's title and post somewhere else. This thread is about J2b-L283.

  4. #1304
    Iliria e Madhe Illyria's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-01-22
    Location
    Illyria
    Posts
    80

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283>>>J-Z638

    Ethnic group
    Aryan Albanian Catholic Malësor
    Country: Albania



    6 members found this post helpful.
    Thought I'd post these here, some J2b2 maps from rrenjet

    j2b2 frequency map.jpeg

    j2b2 albania.jpg

  5. #1305
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,920

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-PF6155

  6. #1306
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    25-12-21
    Posts
    428

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2B2-L283/Z638

    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Illyria View Post
    Thought I'd post these here, some J2b2 maps from rrenjet

    j2b2 frequency map.jpeg

    j2b2 albania.jpg
    Location of Albani tribe. Exactly where the biggest hotspot is.


  7. #1307
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,920

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by enter_tain View Post
    Location of Albani tribe. Exactly where the biggest hotspot is.
    Interesting map
    in 733BC Corinthians Greeks captured Cofu ( Corcyra ) from the Liburnians who had it for over 200Years.

    ten years later these corinthians created Apollonia and then Epidamnus ( modern Durres ) and another town south of Scodra.

    They also created Butrint ...........is that on the map, it should be on the mainland opposite Corfu.

    their fellow Greeks, the Spartans took tarentum ( Taranto ) at a similar time from an off branch of the samnites....I cannot recall the tribal name, but it was not the messapics

  8. #1308
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    25-12-21
    Posts
    428

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2B2-L283/Z638

    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    Interesting map
    in 733BC Corinthians Greeks captured Cofu ( Corcyra ) from the Liburnians who had it for over 200Years.
    ten years later these corinthians created Apollonia and then Epidamnus ( modern Durres ) and another town south of Scodra.
    They also created Butrint ...........is that on the map, it should be on the mainland opposite Corfu.
    their fellow Greeks, the Spartans took tarentum ( Taranto ) at a similar time from an off branch of the samnites....I cannot recall the tribal name, but it was not the messapics
    Yeah Buthrotum was the ancient name of Butrint. It's there

  9. #1309
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    26-11-16
    Posts
    139


    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Illyria View Post
    Thought I'd post these here, some J2b2 maps from rrenjet

    j2b2 frequency map.jpeg

    j2b2 albania.jpg
    J2b, The Last of the Illyrians

    73022.jpg

  10. #1310
    Iliria e Madhe Illyria's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-01-22
    Location
    Illyria
    Posts
    80

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283>>>J-Z638

    Ethnic group
    Aryan Albanian Catholic Malësor
    Country: Albania



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoRevenge View Post
    J2b, The Last of the Illyrians

    73022.jpg
    50cent ft. Young Buck- I'll Whip Your Head Boy (LYRICS)





  11. #1311
    Banned
    Join Date
    25-10-21
    Posts
    29

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b-L283

    Country: Brazil



    Wielbark culture J-M241


    https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient_...3&ybp=500000,0



    I found this great site and i had never seen that sample being disscussed before, it is very likely L283.
    This culture seems to be somewhat related to the mygration of the goths to the area.
    Skeleton:Mas_26
    ID: PCA0113
    Source:FiglerowiczStolarek2021
    i found about it here: https://histslov.wordpress.com/2021/...owie-hg-y-dna/
    Time: 200 - 400 AD
    Location: Maslomecz, Poland
    Last edited by Papayaseeds; 04-05-22 at 06:19.

  12. #1312
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    19-11-18
    Posts
    351


    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Illyria View Post
    50cent ft. Young Buck- I'll Whip Your Head Boy (LYRICS)

    What do illyrians have to do with crappy american music for children?

  13. #1313
    Iliria e Madhe Illyria's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-01-22
    Location
    Illyria
    Posts
    80

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283>>>J-Z638

    Ethnic group
    Aryan Albanian Catholic Malësor
    Country: Albania



    Y-DNA of Greece and Turkey from 2017, not sure how accurate it is today.

    greece_ydna.jpg

    It's interesting that J2b is nearly as frequent as J2a in Thessaly, Central Greece/Attica, and Greek Macedonia.

  14. #1314
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    19-11-18
    Posts
    351


    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Illyria View Post
    Y-DNA of Greece and Turkey from 2017, not sure how accurate it is today.
    greece_ydna.jpg
    It's interesting that J2b is nearly as frequent as J2a in Thessaly, Central Greece/Attica, and Greek Macedonia.
    Im pretty sure some of it is j2b m205, j2b l283 is quite rare in greece today
    Last edited by TaktikatEMalet; 07-05-22 at 12:54.

  15. #1315
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    17-01-15
    Posts
    451

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L283

    Country: Albania



    5 members found this post helpful.
    An important aDNA sample with regards to the thread.

    From the new paper (in preprint) Population Genomics of Stone Age Eurasia we have:

    NEO806, Grotta Delle Mura, Monopoli, Italy_BronzeAge: J2b2a1a1a1a1a1b


    Which corresponds to: J2b-L283>>Z638>Z1297>Z1295>Y21878


    This should be a Iapygian (Paucetian?) sample, as it comes just south of Bari and the dating is listed as -1063 (BC). As we can see, he belongs to the J-Z638 branch which is the predominant J2b-L283 branch among the Albanians, and more specifically to the J-Y21878 subclade.


    Interesting to note: In this paper, this is the only sample from the region and timeframe, and turned out to be a J2b-L283 which as we know has already been confirmed among the Daunians as well (though no deeper classification available).
    Y-DNA: J-L283
    Maternal Y-DNA: E-V13

  16. #1316
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,920

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    An important aDNA sample with regards to the thread.
    From the new paper (in preprint) Population Genomics of Stone Age Eurasia we have:
    NEO806, Grotta Delle Mura, Monopoli, Italy_BronzeAge: J2b2a1a1a1a1a1b
    Which corresponds to: J2b-L283>>Z638>Z1297>Z1295>Y21878
    This should be a Iapygian (Paucetian?) sample, as it comes just south of Bari and the dating is listed as -1063 (BC). As we can see, he belongs to the J-Z638 branch which is the predominant J2b-L283 branch among the Albanians, and more specifically to the J-Y21878 subclade.
    Interesting to note: In this paper, this is the only sample from the region and timeframe, and turned out to be a J2b-L283 which as we know has already been confirmed among the Daunians as well (though no deeper classification available).
    Iapygians or Apulians (/aɪəˈpɪdʒiənz/; Greek: Ἰάπυγες, Ĭāpyges; Latin: Iāpyges, Iapygii, Umbrian Iabuscer) were an Indo-European speaking people, dwelling in an eponymous region of the southeastern Italian Peninsula named Iapygia (modern Apulia) between the beginning of the first millennium BC and the first century BC. They were divided into three tribal groups: the Daunians, Peucetians and Messapians.
    The region was known to the Greeks of the 5th century BC as Iapygía (Ἰαπυγία), and its inhabitants as the Iápyges (Ἰάπυγες). It was probably the term used by the indigenous peoples to designate themselves.[1] The name Iapyges has also been compared to that of the Iapydes, an Illyrian tribe of northern Dalmatia.[2]

    also known as the Iapodes
    Iapodes
    Indo-European people attested since the 9th/8th cents. BC, often erroneously classified as Illyrians, settled in Lika, the Karst plains of Gacko, Ličko, Krbavsko (western Croatia), on the Una near Bihać (western Bosnia) and Notranjska (Inner Carniolia/Slovenia). Administratively, they were part of the conventus Scardonitanus of the province of Illyricum, later Dalmatia. The Zrmanja and Velebit mountains separated them from the Liburni in the south


    The Iapydes (or Iapodes, Japodes; Greek: Ἰάποδες) were an ancient people who dwelt north of and inland from the Liburnians, off the Adriatic coast and eastwards of the Istrian peninsula. They occupied the interior of the country between the Colapis (Kupa) and Oeneus (Una) rivers, and the Velebit mountain range (Mons Baebius) which separated them from the coastal Liburnians. Their territory covered the central inlands of modern Croatia and Una River Valley in today's Bosnia and Herzegovina. Archaeological documentation confirms their presence in these countries at least from 9th century BC, and they persisted in their area longer than a millennium. The ancient written documentation on inland Iapydes is scarcer than on the adjacent coastal peoples (Liburni, Delmatae, etc.)

  17. #1317
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,920

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    1 members found this post helpful.
    The Iapydes are believed to have been an Illyrian subgroup or mixed nation of Celts and Pannonian Illyrians with a strong Venetic element. A major scholar of the Japodi was archaeologist Branka Raunig.


    The Japodians bordered the Noricians and the Carians in the north and northeast. In the west, they bordered the Pannonians and the Dalmatians (or Dalmatia). The river Telavium (current Zermanja) marked the southern border of the Iapodian lands.

    Some historians have said they had only one access to the sea ..........currently the port of Rijeka

  18. #1318
    Regular Member Polska's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-07-17
    Posts
    91

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b L283 PH1602

    Country: United States



    4 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    An important aDNA sample with regards to the thread.

    From the new paper (in preprint) Population Genomics of Stone Age Eurasia we have:

    NEO806, Grotta Delle Mura, Monopoli, Italy_BronzeAge: J2b2a1a1a1a1a1b


    Which corresponds to: J2b-L283>>Z638>Z1297>Z1295>Y21878


    This should be a Iapygian (Paucetian?) sample, as it comes just south of Bari and the dating is listed as -1063 (BC). As we can see, he belongs to the J-Z638 branch which is the predominant J2b-L283 branch among the Albanians, and more specifically to the J-Y21878 subclade.


    Interesting to note: In this paper, this is the only sample from the region and timeframe, and turned out to be a J2b-L283 which as we know has already been confirmed among the Daunians as well (though no deeper classification available).
    ’Tis a beautiful thing. Thanks for the update, Trojet. Especially great news for everyone under Z638.

    Is there any clarification on the possible ancient L283 or J2b from NW Caucasus? That would really be something if that sample turns out to L283. Right around 5700 BC?

  19. #1319
    Regular Member Archetype0ne's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-06-18
    Posts
    1,348

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283/J-Y197198

    Country: Albania



    6 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    An important aDNA sample with regards to the thread.

    From the new paper (in preprint) Population Genomics of Stone Age Eurasia we have:

    NEO806, Grotta Delle Mura, Monopoli, Italy_BronzeAge: J2b2a1a1a1a1a1b


    Which corresponds to: J2b-L283>>Z638>Z1297>Z1295>Y21878


    This should be a Iapygian (Paucetian?) sample, as it comes just south of Bari and the dating is listed as -1063 (BC). As we can see, he belongs to the J-Z638 branch which is the predominant J2b-L283 branch among the Albanians, and more specifically to the J-Y21878 subclade.


    Interesting to note: In this paper, this is the only sample from the region and timeframe, and turned out to be a J2b-L283 which as we know has already been confirmed among the Daunians as well (though no deeper classification available).
    Hey that's my gramps!!
    “Man cannot live without a permanent trust in something indestructible in himself, and at the same time that indestructible something as well as his trust in it may remain permanently concealed from him.”

    Franz Kafka

  20. #1320
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    17-01-15
    Posts
    451

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L283

    Country: Albania



    4 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Polska View Post
    ’Tis a beautiful thing. Thanks for the update, Trojet. Especially great news for everyone under Z638.

    Is there any clarification on the possible ancient L283 or J2b from NW Caucasus? That would really be something if that sample turns out to L283. Right around 5700 BC?
    For now all we have about the sample is: NEO281, Kotias Klde, Georgia, 7773 BC: J2b

    As we know, there is already a Mesolithic sample from this exact cave that was J2a-Y12379 and apparently carried the same mtDNA clade. So, either there is some mix up with the existing J2a sample or this is indeed a new sample that is J2b. At this point, I think we'll have to wait for the raw data and analyze it manually.

    Adding to the suspicion, unlike for NEO806, the authors aren't providing any deeper classification for this alleged Mesolithic J2b sample.

  21. #1321
    Regular Member Polska's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-07-17
    Posts
    91

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b L283 PH1602

    Country: United States



    3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    For now all we have about the sample is: NEO281, Kotias Klde, Georgia, 7773 BC: J2b
    As we know, there is already a Mesolithic sample from this exact cave that was J2a-Y12379 and apparently carried the same mtDNA clade. So, either there is some mix up with the existing J2a sample or this is indeed a new sample that is J2b. At this point, I think we'll have to wait for the raw data and analyze it manually.
    Adding to the suspicion, unlike for NEO806, the authors aren't providing any deeper classification for this alleged Mesolithic J2b sample.
    7700 BC. Wow. That would be the hypothetical formation date for the L283 branch. Looking forward to further updates on this NEO281 sample.

  22. #1322
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    25-12-21
    Posts
    428

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2B2-L283/Z638

    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    All it takes for Y-DNA to spread all it takes is 1 successful person. Imagine one wealthy dude migrates from some random far place to Europe, and spreads his gene to his successor, who would presumably also would be successful.

    I would say J2B2 and EV-13 would be some amazing story where 1 individual spreads his gene rapidly, but the reality is all these IE-speaking people have clades that were not present in Yamnaya. R-L51, R1a, J2b2, EV-13 none of them have been in Yamnaya, yet even Corded Ware cousins of Yamnaya were R1a heavy.

    I feel like any origin stories of these clades are pointless at this stage because there is something MAJOR we're missing about PIE speakers.

  23. #1323
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    25-12-21
    Posts
    428

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2B2-L283/Z638

    Country: United States



    4 members found this post helpful.
    As for Messapians, I think linguists are all coming around to the fact that Albanian/Messapic are related. Are there any linguists that deny this? Eric Hamp called it Messapo-Illyrian and place Albanian under that branch. I think even that weirdo Matzinger states that Albanian-Messapic are related.

    We have this clear triangle now

    Albanian <-> Messapian {Related by inscriptions, and J2b2/Z638}
    Illyrian <-> Messapian {Related by personal names, and J2b2}
    Albanian <-> Illyrian {Tribe names and some place names}

    Even Brindisi today in Italy is related to the word "Bri" in Albanian etymologically.

  24. #1324
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,920

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by enter_tain View Post
    As for Messapians, I think linguists are all coming around to the fact that Albanian/Messapic are related. Are there any linguists that deny this? Eric Hamp called it Messapo-Illyrian and place Albanian under that branch. I think even that weirdo Matzinger states that Albanian-Messapic are related.

    We have this clear triangle now

    Albanian <-> Messapian {Related by inscriptions, and J2b2/Z638}
    Illyrian <-> Messapian {Related by personal names, and J2b2}
    Albanian <-> Illyrian {Tribe names and some place names}

    Even Brindisi today in Italy is related to the word "Bri" in Albanian etymologically.

    so what are you saying ?

    1 - Albanian came from Croatian lands .......went to Apulia, crossed the sea and settled in Albania

    or

    2 - Messapian took their language from croatia to Apulia, then when they opened trade in circa 400BC with Epirus coast , brought their trading language to Epirus ?


    many people spoke Latin, but only a small percentage where Romans

  25. #1325
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    26-01-09
    Posts
    875

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z36

    Country: UK - Scotland



    Quote Originally Posted by enter_tain View Post

    I feel like any origin stories of these clades are pointless at this stage because there is something MAJOR we're missing about PIE speakers.
    Maybe what we are missing is the highly heterogenous nature of Indo-European speakers.

Page 53 of 58 FirstFirst ... 3435152535455 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •