Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 70 of 74 FirstFirst ... 20606869707172 ... LastLast
Results 1,726 to 1,750 of 1844

Thread: J2b2-L283 (proto-illyrian)

  1. #1726
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    27-06-21
    Posts
    83

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L283-->J-Z631
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2b

    Country: France



    There is more -z585 in sardinia actually.
    On top of that, the area of Sardinia where the J-L283 have been found during Nuragic times have basically no coverage for previous time-periods between 3500 BCE and the Nuragic samples.
    Considering that even during Nuragic times no J-L283 are not found on other sites in Sardinia, it would be weird to expect them on those other sites instead of the area where they were found by Nuragic times.

    A Sardinian origin at Z585 level is definitely a possibility (among others), ignoring it when we basically have no "very-old" samples for J-L283 (meaning around ~3000 BCE) is non-sense.
    It is not the only "working" solution ... but it has significant arguments in its favor.
    Dissmissing this possibility so easily is not really serious.

    Anyway, J-L283 have to enter Sardinia a significant amount of time before the Nuragic samples:
    1- By that time (Nuragic culture) mainland Europe is full of Steppic admixture ... therefore if a J-L283 arrive in Sardinia they need some time to have their Steppic admixture "cleaned" by locals. Also, the migrating population need to be very small compared to the size of the local population.
    2- Considering the Sardinian diversity, it is suspect that such diversity can enter in Sardinia a long time after diversification without a big population (which would make Steppic admixture nearly "un-cleanable").
    3- Insular environnement is normally good to produce high-competition between clades ... you therefore expect diverse clades to have less chances to survive in such places than on a whole continent. Not finding some clades outside of Sardinia and having them with big bottle necks is exactly what you would except from a clade stuck on an Island (and in this precise case, we have at least 2 super-old clades, YP113 & YP157, with big bottlenecks, that are purely Sardinian).
    4- The "pile-up" hypothesis, if it can work, and is even likely, for some L283 subclades in Sardinia ... start to become cumbersome when all surviving branches of Z585 have to cluster around Tyrrhenian sea and all of them but one have to survive nowhere else (not impossible, but not considering this signal is weird). The whole idea of "pile-up" signal is to have the clades surviving in other regions of the world to inject them on the Island at different epochs (if a clade is rare on the continent it is not likely for this clade to participate to a pile-up signal) ... if found nowhere-else than the claimed "piled-up" signal, such clade is a serious flaw in the "pile-up" theory.

    Therefore, without ancient samples from the Z585 diversification epoch (3000 BCE), ignoring the Thyrrhenian-centered signal for this clade is not reasonable and likely is motivated by ideological biases.
    I didn't claim it is the only solution ... alternatives do exists. But this possibility have strong arguments, and yet their is no data that are inconsistent with this hypothesis.

  2. #1727
    Regular Member Galaxy Overlord's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-02-21
    Posts
    64

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283>Z631
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Canada-Ontario



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Guys I just saw this on the j-l283 Facebook group so I’ll repost:

    There are 5 new ancient J2b-L283 samples from the August 2022 study "The Anglo-Saxon migration and formation of the Early English Gene pool": https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/vi...899?show=reads (ENA-FIRST-PUBLIC:2022-08-08)

    ADN001 Hannover-Anderten, Lower Saxony, Germany; Saxon: J2b-L283>Z615>Z597>Z638>Z1297>Z631>Z1043>Z8427>Z8424>Z 8429>A25649>Y12007>FGC5382 3* (xY16536)

    ADN005 Hannover-Anderten, Lower Saxony, Germany; Saxon: J2b-L283>Z615>Z597>Z638>Z1297>Z631>Z1043 (xY32998,Y154639,Y29721,FGC58561,Y36972,Y129853,FT 131786,CTS11760,Y191359,FT83787,Y155803,Y16536)

    ADN009 Hannover-Anderten, Lower Saxony, Germany; Saxon: J2b-L283>Z615>Z597>Z638>Z1297>Z631>Z1043>Z8427>Z8424>Z 8429>A25649>Y12007>FGC5382 3* (xY16536)

    ADN010 Hannover-Anderten, Lower Saxony, Germany; Saxon: J2b-L283>Z615>Z597>Z638>Z1297>Z631>Z1043>Z8427>Z8424>Z 8429>A25649>Y12007 (xY12000,FT83787,Y155803,Y16536)

    S20654 West Heslerton, Yorkshire, United Kingdom; Anglo-Saxon: J2b-L283>Z615>Z638>Z1297 (xY27522,FT29003,Y32373,Y83688,CTS8364,Y166564,Y85 328,Y82184,Z8421)

    Don’t see them on the map yet


    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

  3. #1728
    Banned
    Join Date
    25-12-21
    Posts
    737

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2B2-L283/Z638

    Country: United States



    I'm surprised at the popularity of Z631 in western Europe. It's downstream of Z638 which seems to be a central/southern Illyrian marker. Plenty of Z631 has been found in modern and ancient times in that region too, so its origin is surely there.

    I would think the Slovenian/Northern Croatian clades would be more popular in western Europe, but it seems it's this southern marker that made its stamp.

  4. #1729
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    22-08-22
    Posts
    168

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283

    Country: Switzerland



    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    I agree with Paleo on this one, the non-Slavic part of Croats pulls them to North-Italy so it must be Illyrian/Pannonian-Illyrian, i highly doubt it's Thracian, it's just a calculator-effect.



    I doubt it's Sredni Stog, it must be somewhere in North Caucasus which joined some Yamnaya rank (perhaps some northern variants of Maykop Culture), or even latter joiners than Yamnaya (some Bell-Beaker group), also, one must not forget Belotic Bela Crkva, the Early Bronze Age Culture from Western Serbia which might be quite important for J2b2-L283.
    Only samples I have seen so far that cluster like North Italy in Croatia are all from the Bronze Age / Iron Age and even among these there are some Iberian, Albanian and Greek like samples and even Slavic like samples. Later samples I have seen from Croatia are all entirely Greek and Albanian like.

  5. #1730
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    17-01-15
    Posts
    475

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L283

    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaxy Overlord View Post
    Guys I just saw this on the j-l283 Facebook group so I’ll repost:
    There are 5 new ancient J2b-L283 samples from the August 2022 study "The Anglo-Saxon migration and formation of the Early English Gene pool": https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/vi...899?show=reads (ENA-FIRST-PUBLIC:2022-08-08)
    ADN001 Hannover-Anderten, Lower Saxony, Germany; Saxon: J2b-L283>Z615>Z597>Z638>Z1297>Z631>Z1043>Z8427>Z8424>Z 8429>A25649>Y12007>FGC5382 3* (xY16536)
    ADN005 Hannover-Anderten, Lower Saxony, Germany; Saxon: J2b-L283>Z615>Z597>Z638>Z1297>Z631>Z1043 (xY32998,Y154639,Y29721,FGC58561,Y36972,Y129853,FT 131786,CTS11760,Y191359,FT83787,Y155803,Y16536)
    ADN009 Hannover-Anderten, Lower Saxony, Germany; Saxon: J2b-L283>Z615>Z597>Z638>Z1297>Z631>Z1043>Z8427>Z8424>Z 8429>A25649>Y12007>FGC5382 3* (xY16536)
    ADN010 Hannover-Anderten, Lower Saxony, Germany; Saxon: J2b-L283>Z615>Z597>Z638>Z1297>Z631>Z1043>Z8427>Z8424>Z 8429>A25649>Y12007 (xY12000,FT83787,Y155803,Y16536)
    S20654 West Heslerton, Yorkshire, United Kingdom; Anglo-Saxon: J2b-L283>Z615>Z638>Z1297 (xY27522,FT29003,Y32373,Y83688,CTS8364,Y166564,Y85 328,Y82184,Z8421)
    Don’t see them on the map yet
    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

    This was discussed here about a month ago. That study has not been published yet, only the raw data. I suppose it will be published "soon". In case I miss/missed it, someone please post it.

    Those should be ~Early Middle Age samples, btw.
    Y-DNA: J-L283
    Maternal Y-DNA: E-V13

  6. #1731
    Regular Member Galaxy Overlord's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-02-21
    Posts
    64

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283>Z631
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Canada-Ontario



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Also speaking of samples, why don’t we have any samples from the Romans who died in Teutoburg forest.

    Supposedly 16,000 - 20,000 were killed but there are no DNA samples? Have the remains not been found or have they but not been tested?


    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

  7. #1732
    Regular Member mount123's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-12-21
    Posts
    673

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b-L283>Y52453
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c7a

    Country: Kosovo



    There is another basal J2b-L283 Hungarian on YFull id:YF109411 from Fejér.

  8. #1733
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    17-01-15
    Posts
    475

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L283

    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by mount123 View Post
    There is another basal J2b-L283 Hungarian on YFull id:YF109411 from Fejér.
    Yes, but as can be seen in the "live" version of the YFull tree, he forms a new subclade defined by J-Y250639 plus 45 other SNPs with the existing Hungarian from Vas, which means they are not too distantly related, perhaps ~1000 ybp TMRCA.

    So currently there is still one "basal" J2b-L283 lineage in Hungary.

  9. #1734
    Regular Member mount123's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-12-21
    Posts
    673

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b-L283>Y52453
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c7a

    Country: Kosovo



    Tell me you know nothing of the stuff you want to "inform" others about without telling me you know nothing of the stuff you want to "inform" others about. Not even worth being paid a biologist's minimum wage via temporary employment. Ridiculous.
    Quote Originally Posted by mount123 View Post
    From the supplementary "info guide":

    "Interestingly, rather than in one of the more cosmopolitan trading centres like Groningen, Schleswig, or Copenhagen, we find J2-L228 in Anderten, where the haplogroup peaks due to the presence of a paternally–related kin group of four males. Within England, haplogroup J2-L228 was first observed in a Roman individual from York who originated from the Middle East, as suggested by genomic and isotopic evidence121."

    First and foremost, it is J2b-L283 and the oldest aDNA samples are centered in the East Adriatic region (EBA-IA). The J2b-L283 samples from Anderten are autosomally what you would expect from that region of that time and their ancestors are not the result of some 2011 mysterious trade pocket theory but most likely of Roman legionaries with descent from the Western Balkans. The sample from York is not J2b-L283 but J-M205.

    I am not exactly sure what that individual thought whilst typing that supposedly "info" text in. Bear in mind it is wrong and complete non sense and on top of that a total butchering of the nomenclature he/she desperately tried to make baseless theories about.

  10. #1735
    Regular Member Galaxy Overlord's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-02-21
    Posts
    64

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283>Z631
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Canada-Ontario



    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    This was discussed here about a month ago. That study has not been published yet, only the raw data. I suppose it will be published "soon". In case I miss/missed it, someone please post it.

    Those should be ~Early Middle Age samples, btw.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-05247-2

    I think this is the published paper


    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

  11. #1736
    Regular Member Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-04-18
    Age
    30
    Posts
    338

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L283 (z627)

    Ethnic group
    Ancient
    Country: Algeria



    In regards to maros culture
    https://indo-european.eu/2020/05/mar...cal-admixture/

    Interesting that they completely ignored the neolithic aegean ancestry in the northern Balkans! And instead focus on yanmaya
    Intersesting excerpts about this 2100-1800 BC cemetery (emphasis mine):

    Ancestry
    The individual Mokrin genomes are best modelled as a mixture of Central European hunter-gatherers, Aegean Neolithic farmers and influences from the Eastern European steppes (mean qpAdm tail probability individually 0.46, pooled 0.08).

    We observed no significant variation in the eastern European steppe-like component between individuals. Pooling individuals, admixture proportions are estimated to be around 8% (± 1.2% SE) western hunter gatherers, 55% (± 2.5% SE) Aegean Neolithic farmers , and 37% (± 2.3% SE) Eastern European steppe-like population. Quantification of shared drift to other temporally and geographically close ancient individuals via outgroup f3 statistics did not reveal any particularly close affinities, reflecting the genetic homogenization of Europe during the Bronze Age.
    Maybe this is why the more basal ancient J-L283 samples seem to appear in sardinia. Perhaps after the greeks invaded the agean and depopulated the agean islands before repopulating them they migrated and left westward to the adriatic and to sardinia. But its possible some migration was done early before the invasion by the greeks.

    The high status of an individual of hg. J2b – likely J2b-L283, a lineage of Balkan/Central Mediterranean Neolithic
    distribution – as well as other high status burials, together with the lower status* of Yamnaya/Bell Beaker derived R1b-Z2103 (barring potentially sample 243, the nephew of 257B through his mother 257A) points to the increasing relevance of local lineages during the EBA in detriment of the likely ‘original’ Yamnaya/East Bell Beaker-derived patrilineally-related community of the earliest stage of the Maros group.[/b]
    Meanwhile there is no ancient J-L283 present in ukraine!!! Or the baltic!!
    Last edited by Wanderer; 27-09-22 at 01:50.

  12. #1737
    Regular Member Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-04-18
    Age
    30
    Posts
    338

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L283 (z627)

    Ethnic group
    Ancient
    Country: Algeria



    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardani
    They were among the oldest Balkan peoples, and their society was very complex.....
    Most ancient sources classify Dardanians as Illyrians.[6]Strabo and Appian explicitly referred to them as Illyrians.[7] Strabo, in particular – also mentioning Galabri and Thunatae as Dardanian tribes – describes the Dardani as one of the three strongest Illyrian peoples, the other two being the Ardiaei and Autariatae.[8][9] Dardanians were an 'Illyrian' people[10][11] but not in the same sense of the word as those tribes/peoples dwelling in the central and southern coast of the eastern Adriatic Sea and its hinterland.[12] They shared the same origins and culture with them but they had developed their own distinct social-political formation in Dardania .[13] Dardanians were also related to the Thracians and to Asia Minor.[10] Classical ethnography linked them with the Dardanoi of Troy[14] The ethnic frontier between Dardanians and Thracians was located on the South Morava (ancient Margus) up to the Danube to the north, splitting in two parts the Dardanian region, with the eastern part significantly "thracianized" at a later date.[7] The Thracian tribe to the east of the Dardanians were the Maedi.[15]

  13. #1738
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,353

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post

    strabo and his Illyrians



    2.1 = Illyrians of the Interior

    2.2 = Illyrians of the coast

    Are they all really Illyrians ...................I can work with as a yes or no
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather paternal mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-PF6155

    "Fear profits man, nothing"

  14. #1739
    Regular Member Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-04-18
    Age
    30
    Posts
    338

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L283 (z627)

    Ethnic group
    Ancient
    Country: Algeria



    At 2:55 we see ancient testimonial of ancient macadonian/ pelasgians /paeonians [ maros derived culture]



  15. #1740
    Regular Member Galaxy Overlord's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-02-21
    Posts
    64

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283>Z631
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Canada-Ontario



    3 members found this post helpful.
    I thought Maros culture comes from bell beaker around east Austria/West Hungary
    Attached Images Attached Images

  16. #1741
    Regular Member Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-04-18
    Age
    30
    Posts
    338

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L283 (z627)

    Ethnic group
    Ancient
    Country: Algeria



    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    strabo and his Illyrians



    2.1 = Illyrians of the Interior

    2.2 = Illyrians of the coast

    Are they all really Illyrians ...................I can work with as a yes or no
    Yes.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapydes

    The exact origin of early Iapydes is uncertain; archaeological documentation suggests mixed affinities to early Pannonii and Illyrians. The first written mention of an Illyrian tribe is from Greek writers from the 6th century BC. They are provisionally described by Strabo as a mixed race of Celts and Illyrians, who used Celtic weapons, tattooed themselves, and lived chiefly on spelt and millet; however, Strabo's suggestion of a mixed Celtic-Illyrian Iapydes culture is not confirmed by archaeology. Originally, Iapydes existed at least from the 9th century BC, and Celtic influence reached the region in the 4th century BC when Iapydes entered a decline. Archeological evidence of typical Celtic culture is documented only in the marginal contact zone of the Iapydes and the Celtic Taurisci along the Kupa river valley (now the Slovenian-Croatian border). Elsewhere, and especially in the main Iapydic area of the Lika highlands in Croatia, definite Celtic artifacts are scarce and explicable merely by commercial exchanges.

  17. #1742
    Regular Member Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-04-18
    Age
    30
    Posts
    338

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L283 (z627)

    Ethnic group
    Ancient
    Country: Algeria



    Quote Originally Posted by Galaxy Overlord View Post
    I thought Maros culture comes from bell beaker around east Austria/West Hungary
    They have 55 percent aegean ancestry according to the link i posted but for some reason its ignored.

  18. #1743
    Regular Member Galaxy Overlord's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-02-21
    Posts
    64

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283>Z631
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Canada-Ontario



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    They have 55 percent aegean ancestry according to the link i posted but for some reason its ignored.
    maybe they took Aegean women

  19. #1744
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,353

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    Yes.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapydes

    The exact origin of early Iapydes is uncertain; archaeological documentation suggests mixed affinities to early Pannonii and Illyrians. The first written mention of an Illyrian tribe is from Greek writers from the 6th century BC. They are provisionally described by Strabo as a mixed race of Celts and Illyrians, who used Celtic weapons, tattooed themselves, and lived chiefly on spelt and millet; however, Strabo's suggestion of a mixed Celtic-Illyrian Iapydes culture is not confirmed by archaeology. Originally, Iapydes existed at least from the 9th century BC, and Celtic influence reached the region in the 4th century BC when Iapydes entered a decline. Archeological evidence of typical Celtic culture is documented only in the marginal contact zone of the Iapydes and the Celtic Taurisci along the Kupa river valley (now the Slovenian-Croatian border). Elsewhere, and especially in the main Iapydic area of the Lika highlands in Croatia, definite Celtic artifacts are scarce and explicable merely by commercial exchanges.

    maybe the term iapodes and iapydes are not related to each other

    the Daunians where clearly Iapodes in origin as even their women tattooed their bodies .........while the Messapics ( are Iapydes, what the greeks called them ) did not do any tattooing that i can recall

    Below is the only helmet made by the Iapodes using Noric steel ( from Noricum ) in the northern balkans ..................all other "illyrian" helmets are made by corinthian Greeks in Corinth or the pelopenese


  20. #1745
    Regular Member Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-04-18
    Age
    30
    Posts
    338

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L283 (z627)

    Ethnic group
    Ancient
    Country: Algeria



    Quote Originally Posted by Galaxy Overlord View Post
    maybe they took Aegean women
    Or maybe their mothers were agean before arriving and then started laying with post yanmaya steppe mixed babes

  21. #1746
    Regular Member Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-04-18
    Age
    30
    Posts
    338

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L283 (z627)

    Ethnic group
    Ancient
    Country: Algeria



    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    maybe the term iapodes and iapydes are not related to each other

    the Daunians where clearly Iapodes in origin as even their women tattooed their bodies .........while the Messapics ( are Iapydes, what the greeks called them ) did not do any tattooing that i can recall

    Below is the only helmet made by the Iapodes using Noric steel ( from Noricum ) in the northern balkans ..................all other "illyrian" helmets are made by corinthian Greeks in Corinth or the pelopenese

    But we have J2b-L283 in messapian territory of southern italy

  22. #1747
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,353

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    But we have J2b-L283 in messapian territory of southern italy

    the sample is from Salapia which is in Foggia area .............Salapia in next to modern

    Cerignola (Italian pronunciation: [tʃeriɲˈɲɔːla]; Cerignolano: Ceregnòule [tʃərəɲˈɲɔwlə] (listen)) is a town and comune of Apulia, Italy, in the province of Foggia,

    Salapia (also called Salpe and Salpi) is an ancient settlement and bishopric in Daunia, Italy near Cerignola and Manfredonia.

  23. #1748
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-05-17
    Posts
    5,506

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    the sample is from Salapia which is in Foggia area .............Salapia in next to modern
    Cerignola (Italian pronunciation: [tʃeriɲˈɲɔːla]; Cerignolano: Ceregnòule [tʃərəɲˈɲɔwlə] (listen)) is a town and comune of Apulia, Italy, in the province of Foggia,
    Salapia (also called Salpe and Salpi) is an ancient settlement and bishopric in Daunia, Italy near Cerignola and Manfredonia.
    Foggia, Cerignola, Manfredonia, … are in my Puglia Genetic Community.

    🕷️

  24. #1749
    Banned
    Join Date
    25-12-21
    Posts
    737

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2B2-L283/Z638

    Country: United States



    That Pribislav in anthrogenica dweeb came out from under the rocks and is crying about EV13 too

    Tell him Greeks didn't speak Greek either back then. We haven't found any EV13 in ancient Greece, therefore Proto-Greeks migrated into Greece with EV13.

  25. #1750
    Banned
    Join Date
    25-12-21
    Posts
    737

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2B2-L283/Z638

    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Or perhaps you can't read. This is what I wrote on the J2 page:

    As a result, both the Illyrians and the Mycenaeans (and possibly the Albanians) would be descended from Middle to Late Bronze Age Steppe migrants to the Southeast Europe, in a migration that was particularly rich in J2b lineages from the Middle Volga region.

    The Albanian (and Kosovar) population is one of the most homogeneous in Europe in term of shared recent ancestry according to Ralph & Coop 2013. This means that the Albanians expanded from a very small population relatively recently, which explains why strong founder effects completely reshaped the Y-DNA frequencies. That is how E-V13 and J2b became to dominant among Albanians and Kosovars. That expansion probably took place during the Middle Ages, so based on the current data it is impossible to know whether E-V13 and J2b entered the Albanian gene pool during the Bronze Age, the Iron Age, the Classical Antiquity, or even the Middle Ages. Hence my reserve on the subject.
    He was wrong about J2b but he was right about EV13. Kosovar bottlenecks have been noted since 2005 papers.

Page 70 of 74 FirstFirst ... 20606869707172 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •