J2b2-L283 (proto-illyrian)

strabo and his Illyrians



2.1 = Illyrians of the Interior

2.2 = Illyrians of the coast

Are they all really Illyrians ...................I can work with as a yes or no
Yes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapydes

The exact origin of early Iapydes is uncertain; archaeological documentation suggests mixed affinities to early Pannonii and Illyrians. The first written mention of an Illyrian tribe is from Greek writers from the 6th century BC. They are provisionally described by Strabo as a mixed race of Celts and Illyrians, who used Celtic weapons, tattooed themselves, and lived chiefly on spelt and millet; however, Strabo's suggestion of a mixed Celtic-Illyrian Iapydes culture is not confirmed by archaeology. Originally, Iapydes existed at least from the 9th century BC, and Celtic influence reached the region in the 4th century BC when Iapydes entered a decline. Archeological evidence of typical Celtic culture is documented only in the marginal contact zone of the Iapydes and the Celtic Taurisci along the Kupa river valley (now the Slovenian-Croatian border). Elsewhere, and especially in the main Iapydic area of the Lika highlands in Croatia, definite Celtic artifacts are scarce and explicable merely by commercial exchanges.
 
Yes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapydes

The exact origin of early Iapydes is uncertain; archaeological documentation suggests mixed affinities to early Pannonii and Illyrians. The first written mention of an Illyrian tribe is from Greek writers from the 6th century BC. They are provisionally described by Strabo as a mixed race of Celts and Illyrians, who used Celtic weapons, tattooed themselves, and lived chiefly on spelt and millet; however, Strabo's suggestion of a mixed Celtic-Illyrian Iapydes culture is not confirmed by archaeology. Originally, Iapydes existed at least from the 9th century BC, and Celtic influence reached the region in the 4th century BC when Iapydes entered a decline. Archeological evidence of typical Celtic culture is documented only in the marginal contact zone of the Iapydes and the Celtic Taurisci along the Kupa river valley (now the Slovenian-Croatian border). Elsewhere, and especially in the main Iapydic area of the Lika highlands in Croatia, definite Celtic artifacts are scarce and explicable merely by commercial exchanges.


maybe the term iapodes and iapydes are not related to each other

the Daunians where clearly Iapodes in origin as even their women tattooed their bodies .........while the Messapics ( are Iapydes, what the greeks called them ) did not do any tattooing that i can recall

Below is the only helmet made by the Iapodes using Noric steel ( from Noricum ) in the northern balkans ..................all other "illyrian" helmets are made by corinthian Greeks in Corinth or the pelopenese

 
maybe the term iapodes and iapydes are not related to each other

the Daunians where clearly Iapodes in origin as even their women tattooed their bodies .........while the Messapics ( are Iapydes, what the greeks called them ) did not do any tattooing that i can recall

Below is the only helmet made by the Iapodes using Noric steel ( from Noricum ) in the northern balkans ..................all other "illyrian" helmets are made by corinthian Greeks in Corinth or the pelopenese


But we have J2b-L283 in messapian territory of southern italy
a741fbe9aced0d126ca9dcd4cffdfa60.jpg
a0070c8eaacb65d9f6c0b7437161a24e.jpg
 
But we have J2b-L283 in messapian territory of southern italy
a741fbe9aced0d126ca9dcd4cffdfa60.jpg
a0070c8eaacb65d9f6c0b7437161a24e.jpg


the sample is from Salapia which is in Foggia area .............Salapia in next to modern

Cerignola (Italian pronunciation: [tʃeriɲˈɲɔːla]; Cerignolano: Ceregnòule [tʃərəɲˈɲɔwlə] (listen)) is a town and comune of Apulia, Italy, in the province of Foggia,

Salapia (also called Salpe and Salpi) is an ancient settlement and bishopric in Daunia, Italy near Cerignola and Manfredonia.
 
the sample is from Salapia which is in Foggia area .............Salapia in next to modern
Cerignola (Italian pronunciation: [tʃeriɲˈɲɔːla]; Cerignolano: Ceregnòule [tʃərəɲˈɲɔwlə] (listen)) is a town and comune of Apulia, Italy, in the province of Foggia,
Salapia (also called Salpe and Salpi) is an ancient settlement and bishopric in Daunia, Italy near Cerignola and Manfredonia.

Foggia, Cerignola, Manfredonia, … are in my Puglia Genetic Community.

6IAY3j4.jpg
 
That Pribislav in anthrogenica dweeb came out from under the rocks and is crying about EV13 too :lol:

Tell him Greeks didn't speak Greek either back then. We haven't found any EV13 in ancient Greece, therefore Proto-Greeks migrated into Greece with EV13.
 
Or perhaps you can't read. This is what I wrote on the J2 page:

As a result, both the Illyrians and the Mycenaeans (and possibly the Albanians) would be descended from Middle to Late Bronze Age Steppe migrants to the Southeast Europe, in a migration that was particularly rich in J2b lineages from the Middle Volga region.

The Albanian (and Kosovar) population is one of the most homogeneous in Europe in term of shared recent ancestry according to Ralph & Coop 2013. This means that the Albanians expanded from a very small population relatively recently, which explains why strong founder effects completely reshaped the Y-DNA frequencies. That is how E-V13 and J2b became to dominant among Albanians and Kosovars. That expansion probably took place during the Middle Ages, so based on the current data it is impossible to know whether E-V13 and J2b entered the Albanian gene pool during the Bronze Age, the Iron Age, the Classical Antiquity, or even the Middle Ages. Hence my reserve on the subject.

He was wrong about J2b but he was right about EV13. Kosovar bottlenecks have been noted since 2005 papers.
 
Foggia, Cerignola, Manfredonia, … are in my Puglia Genetic Community.

6IAY3j4.jpg

so you are near Foggia province ( north Puglia )...........I thought you where further south ................what do you mean near ?

my family ( paternal line ) still sits between Montebelluna and Treviso cities.........we have never said we are from either and we are less than 10k from either city
 
so you are near Foggia province ( north Puglia )...........I thought you where further south ................what do you mean near ?

my family ( paternal line ) still sits between Montebelluna and Treviso cities.........we have never said we are from either and we are less than 10k from either city

I didn't say near … that’s my AncestryDNA Genetic Community map, … I’m from LECCE, … but there are Foggiani, Baresi, and other Apulians similar to me, though they lack my Kung Fu skills, lol
 
FB_IMG_1664272782059.jpg
maybe the term iapodes and iapydes are not related to each other
the Daunians where clearly Iapodes in origin as even their women tattooed their bodies .........while the Messapics ( are Iapydes, what the greeks called them ) did not do any tattooing that i can recall
Below is the only helmet made by the Iapodes using Noric steel ( from Noricum ) in the northern balkans ..................all other "illyrian" helmets are made by corinthian Greeks in Corinth or the pelopenese
So you mean all the illyrians helmets found in Cinamake Kukes should be considered "greek" helmets. So, all the production of iron and copper of the Kukes area should be considered "greek iron and copper". What about todays copper mines in Kukes? Is it still "greek copper"?

The Cinamake Helmet in the photo
 
the sample is from Salapia which is in Foggia area .............Salapia in next to modern

Cerignola (Italian pronunciation: [tʃeriɲˈɲɔːla]; Cerignolano: Ceregnòule [tʃərəɲˈɲɔwlə] (listen)) is a town and comune of Apulia, Italy, in the province of Foggia,

Salapia (also called Salpe and Salpi) is an ancient settlement and bishopric in Daunia, Italy near Cerignola and Manfredonia.
They should try to find samples near or at Rudiae
 
I thought Maros culture comes from bell beaker around east Austria/West Hungary
Maros culture tested 55 percent aegean neolithic. And 34 percent steppe. But they could have recieved steppe because of a steppe migration along the pontic into the aegean
 
View attachment 13588
So you mean all the illyrians helmets found in Cinamake Kukes should be considered "greek" helmets. So, all the production of iron and copper of the Kukes area should be considered "greek iron and copper". What about todays copper mines in Kukes? Is it still "greek copper"?

The Cinamake Helmet in the photo


it seems they where made in 2 places

Known as Shmarjet helmet, named after Shmarjet of Novo Mesto (modern Slovenia ), was used by the Japodes.[4] from 700BC..................the earlier bronze type was produced circa 1000BC and was made of only bronze.

and

in made in Greece near Argos from 500BC using thee Type IV (c. 500 BC) which was similar to Type III but hearing was not impaired at all.
The Illyrian type helmet was used by the ancient Greeks,[7] Etruscans,[8] Scythians,[9] from 450BC
 
Do you have any non-daunian samples in italy that I can check
I have to see if I find some study about that later.

In any case
56290fc9da33ab9efeda3534f3e250fe.jpg


Maros culture has 55 percent aegean.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daunians

There are numerous testimonies among ancient authors (Pseudo-Scylax, Virgil, Festus, Servius) of a presence of the Daunians beyond the Apennines in Campania and Latium where some towns claimed Diomedian origins.
 

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