What do you consider Southeastern Europe

Yetos what about the city of Sahin in Greece I don't know the name for it in Greek but isn't this a highly Turk area. I am not sure how good of a city it is. What is the best cities for Turks in Greece? I also would like to visit Cyprus even if it isn't balkan. I do want to do a tour of the balkans though. Is it easy to travel pretty freely between the countries or no?

to travel 'freely' it depends on the passport you have and the agreements between countries,
but that would not be a problem,

about Sahin I do not know what you mean
most Possible is the land of Pomaks, in Greek Εχινος Ehinos.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echinos
Pomaks is a unique ethnicity/culture

well the preferacture is Xanthi and with Komotene are south of Rodope mountains.
Personally Xanthi old city part is very nice,
and has many festivals in summer
and was the capital of Anatolian Tobacco (basma) plants centuries now
with also Semisous (Samson karadeniz)

If you take that road trip then pass from Alexandroupolis Komotene Xanthi/Ehinos Serres were the old monsk is still standing as museum
and offcourse Thessaloniki ( I live 70 km away come visit me for a Greek coffee :grin:, )
Thessaloniki has many from Ottomans time, included the house of Kemal Attaturk, "(by what i know it was against the road 20 m away)
from there (historically since you are Turk citizen) also pass from the holy city of Vagiazit, Giannitsa
borders are less than 1 hour and go to Skopjie,
from there you can decide among Kossovo or Bosnia and choose your road,
wild life in Dadia Olympos Axios river delta and the Karantere,
karantere is a virgin unigue system protected by international organisations, and you need a license a 'visa' to enter
also can visit the 2 islands on your way, Samothrake and Thasos, and offcourse Chalkidiki (y)

If you go from Bulgaria I suggest Velico Tyrvono, Kazanlak and rose gardens, fields full of roses, and Plovdiv (Phillipopolis)
also if it is easy for you visit Burgas (Pyrgos) Sozopolis Agathopolis,
from Plovdiv decide and go from Blakoevgrad to Kossovo
or from Sofia to Bosnia,

anyway for Bulgaria Skopjie Serbia Kossovo Bosnia Albania there are many members here that can help you.

I do not know about prices in Turkey, Greece is a little bit higher than some other balkan countries

Tahir if you are not a provokative or an assault / insulting Muslim, nobody cares about you,
even jihadists of ISIS pass :grin:
From Greece every year pass more than 3 million Turks from West Europe to go to Turkey
and from Serbia Bulgaria also other 3-4 millions,
nobody cares,
except the drivers :LOL:, cause we understand Turks by the way they drive,
they go like caravan 3-9 cars and do not allow someone to pass front or among them, with high risk for accident.
 
to travel 'freely' it depends on the passport you have and the agreements between countries,
but that would not be a problem,

about Sahin I do not know what you mean
most Possible is the land of Pomaks, in Greek Εχινος Ehinos.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echinos
Pomaks is a unique ethnicity/culture

well the preferacture is Xanthi and with Komotene are south of Rodope mountains.
Personally Xanthi old city part is very nice,
and has many festivals in summer
and was the capital of Anatolian Tobacco (basma) plants centuries now
with also Semisous (Samson karadeniz)

If you take that road trip then pass from Alexandroupolis Komotene Xanthi/Ehinos Serres were the old monsk is still standing as museum
and offcourse Thessaloniki ( I live 70 km away come visit me for a Greek coffee :grin:, )
Thessaloniki has many from Ottomans time, included the house of Kemal Attaturk, "(by what i know it was against the road 20 m away)
from there (historically since you are Turk citizen) also pass from the holy city of Vagiazit, Giannitsa
borders are less than 1 hour and go to Skopjie,
from there you can decide among Kossovo or Bosnia and choose your road,
wild life in Dadia Olympos Axios river delta and the Karantere,
karantere is a virgin unigue system protected by international organisations, and you need a license a 'visa' to enter
also can visit the 2 islands on your way, Samothrake and Thasos, and offcourse Chalkidiki (y)

If you go from Bulgaria I suggest Velico Tyrvono, Kazanlak and rose gardens, fields full of roses, and Plovdiv (Phillipopolis)
also if it is easy for you visit Burgas (Pyrgos) Sozopolis Agathopolis,
from Plovdiv decide and go from Blakoevgrad to Kossovo
or from Sofia to Bosnia,

anyway for Bulgaria Skopjie Serbia Kossovo Bosnia Albania there are many members here that can help you.

I do not know about prices in Turkey, Greece is a little bit higher than some other balkan countries

Tahir if you are not a provokative or an assault / insulting Muslim, nobody cares about you,
even jihadists of ISIS pass :grin:
From Greece every year pass more than 3 million Turks from West Europe to go to Turkey
and from Serbia Bulgaria also other 3-4 millions,
nobody cares,
except the drivers :LOL:, cause we understand Turks by the way they drive,
they go like caravan 3-9 cars and do not allow someone to pass front or among them, with high risk for accident.

No I am not like that I just go to the mosque, and pray and mind my own business. I was just wondering because there has been tension in that area. If I got I def want to visit Greece I would probably start driving from Istanbul and then go into Ehinos. Pomaks do they speak Turkish or do they have there own language? I would deff come enjoy a greek coffee. I mean we are all brothers of that area. I would love to go see the balkans after Greece, but I have always wanted to see greece. I have dual citizenship so I do not think that it would be hard to travel. I want to go see Bosnia. So greece is actually more expensive right now then turkey?
 
No I am not like that I just go to the mosque, and pray and mind my own business. I was just wondering because there has been tension in that area. If I got I def want to visit Greece I would probably start driving from Istanbul and then go into Ehinos. Pomaks do they speak Turkish or do they have there own language? I would deff come enjoy a greek coffee. I mean we are all brothers of that area. I would love to go see the balkans after Greece, but I have always wanted to see greece. I have dual citizenship so I do not think that it would be hard to travel. I want to go see Bosnia. So greece is actually more expensive right now then turkey?


Greece is more expencive than other Balkan countries,
I do not know considering Turkey.

unleaded 100 per litter 1.50-1.75 E

at west Thrace many can speak Turkish.
Pomaks have their language , but most there are trillingual.
Pomak Greek Turkish

Notice
In Greece Fully operational Monsk are only in Thrace due to the exchgange treaty of 1923,
outside Thrace most Monsk are museums, and operate few days per year,
working monsk are mostly appartments, and mainly each nationality has its own.
 
Is the Greek coffee like the Ottoman style coffee with teacups? Bosnians drink coffee like that. I served it to some of my American friends and they weren't good at handling it, too strong for them.
 
Yes it is the same with Turkish coffee, and Turkish tea people who aren't used to it are say it is so strong. I love tea... Yetos are you Pomak originally or are you Greek 100% you know a lot about them. It is hard to find out about them, and even with Turkish sites there is not a lot.
 
For mean Southeast Europe is basically all the Balkans and Carpathians and what lies in the middle. So from Slovenia to Romania and Moldova and south all the way to Greece. I don't included Italy in SE Europe, but geographically it's debatable for South Italy.
 
For mean Southeast Europe is basically all the Balkans and Carpathians and what lies in the middle. So from Slovenia to Romania and Moldova and south all the way to Greece. I don't included Italy in SE Europe, but geographically it's debatable for South Italy.

Yes I was trying to figure out why the FTDNA includes Italy in southeastern. I heard it is because all of the DNA from that area to turkey is very closely connected?
 
From Sicily to Istria,
Istria to Odessa,
Odessa To Constantinopel,
Constantinopel to Hallicarnassos,
Halicarnassos to Sparta,
Sparta to Sicily.
 
What do you mean?
If you draw a line from each location to the next, you get an outline of what i would call Southeastern Europe.
But of course, there is not one correct definition. This is just my thoughts on what SE Europe is.
 
If you draw a line from each location to the next, you get an outline of what i would call Southeastern Europe.
But of course, there is not one correct definition. This is just my thoughts on what SE Europe is.

Sicily is not SE Europe. Adriatic and Ionian sea are the borders between East and West. Basically, Balcans are considered South East Europe.
 
Sicily is not SE Europe. Adriatic and Ionian sea are the borders between East and West. Basically, Balcans are considered South East Europe.
There is not one true definition. The definitions are political.
Why call it Europe then? Isn't Europe really just the westernmost extension of Asia?
We call it Europe because we do not want to put ourselves in the same box as asians. Probably because we have more history and culture in common with each other within Europe, than we have with the asians.
Also for the same reasons i don't think one can speak of southeastern european identities, histories and cultures without incorporating western anatolians and southern Italians.
Just because it is part of Italy today, does not mean that it was not within the influential sphere of ancient greek and illyrians.
And just because Constantinopel is no longer ours, it is still the place where our emperors pushed through the laws which would eventually clear the way for the modern laws we have in Europe today.

So yea, if Constantinopel, the most important city of SE European history is not SE european, then Europe i also just the westernmost part of asia.

Geologically speaking, Europe does not exist. But we make up these definitions for political and historical reasons.
So as Europe does not exist, so doesn't SE Europe. But we invent the terms anyway. And what meanings we put on these invented terms, is something we choose subjectively. There is no controlling instance to tell which definition is the absolute true and omnishading definition of the term.

But yes, i would agree that your definition is far more widely accepted. But that is because of the misconception that Europe really is a geological continent, and that we therefore must chop it up into further parts, just like we do with other continents.

And judging by the fact that the word europe is just a historical and cultural construct(and not a geological one), leads me to believe that dividing europe into further parts, should also be consistent with the original method. Beginning to divide a cultural construct up by purely geograpical criteria is inconsistent with the starting method.
 
Sicily is not SE Europe. Adriatic and Ionian sea are the borders between East and West. Basically, Balcans are considered South East Europe.
I would rather rephrase what you said into that the balkans is the core area of SE europe today. While Anatolia and southern Italy are drifting away from the SE european cultural identity sphere. South italians drifting towards germano-celtic shpere. Western anatolians drifting towards turkic sphere.

The reach of SE european power throughout antiquity has been so great, that the core area at that time streched from Rome to Constantinopel. But i will agree with you that our core is not that big anymore. But the connections between balkans and south italy is still strong both genetically and linguistically. The same is true(to some degree) for western anatolians and balkans.
 
Yes it is the same with Turkish coffee, and Turkish tea people who aren't used to it are say it is so strong. I love tea... Yetos are you Pomak originally or are you Greek 100% you know a lot about them. It is hard to find out about them, and even with Turkish sites there is not a lot.

Genetically I am a neolithic Farmer
Caucasian mainly

for ethnicity as far I know my family is connected with the area I live, Makedonia and always spoke Greek, their own dialect and style.
I can not certify 2000 years ago,
one of my grand grandma was Aromani.


original Pomaks are a closed society,
yet I had 1 fellow student at University,
and happened to find him 2 years when I went Alexandroupoli to Samothrake
 
Genetically I am a neolithic Farmer
Caucasian mainly

for ethnicity as far I know my family is connected with the area I live, Makedonia and always spoke Greek, their own dialect and style.
I can not certify 2000 years ago,
one of my grand grandma was Aromani.


original Pomaks are a closed society,
yet I had 1 fellow student at University,
and happened to find him 2 years when I went Alexandroupoli to Samothrake

What would be the DNA of the Pomak from what I am reading they are Bulgarians who accepted Islam... They have so much in common with the laz people, but the laz obviously are from almost the whole other side of the world (not really but Greece, and Georgia are not closely related at all.)
 
What would be the DNA of the Pomak from what I am reading they are Bulgarians who accepted Islam... They have so much in common with the laz people, but the laz obviously are from almost the whole other side of the world (not really but Greece, and Georgia are not closely related at all.)

No nothing with Laz by what I know until now,
Pomak language is satem and sounds like Bulgarian by it is not Slavic
yet you could say that is in a wider Balto-Slavic family,
their DNA shows clearly endogamy and existance of known Mediterrenean blood geneticks which is rare or non exist in both Slavs or Laz etc
but common in Mediterrenean population.
genetists believe they exist there more than 2000 years isolation,
and possibly connected with ancient Thracians or other nation from around mediteranean,
At Byzantine and Ottoman times they were connected with Islam that is why they are named Pomaks.
Pomak is wider name for million around Greece Bulgaria and European Turkey,
but many of them are not Pomakoi, just other,
True Pomaks live in Rodope among Greece and Bulgaria, and some moved around Adrianoupolis (Edirne) late century
their majority lives in W Europe specially Deutschland and Australia

true Pomaks are not Bulgarians neither Greeks neither Turks,
they have HBO-Arab so high that can not be connected with Pontos area neither Grussia neither true Bulgarians or Slavs
only with ancient tribes close to Aegean, were HBO is high,
to understand genetik say that at least 2000 years exist as tribe and in an Aegean area, or East meditterenean,
so the most possible is to come from ancient Thracians

see
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms6345
http://www.he.duth.gr/conference/attachments/article/83/ABSTRACTS.pdf
 
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What would be the DNA of the Pomak from what I am reading they are Bulgarians who accepted Islam... They have so much in common with the laz people, but the laz obviously are from almost the whole other side of the world (not really but Greece, and Georgia are not closely related at all.)

Based on a small sample their major haplogroups seemd to be I2a1, R1b, I1, E while there's also J2. Today in Greece, many Pomaks have Turkish identity, though.
 

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