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Thread: On the future of Europe and European Boarders

  1. #26
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    Chams would have been alright and still live in that area should they have not assisted the Nazi Germans--I do not mean all of the Cham population. That was the main reason Napoleon Zervas and his squad did what they did.

    By and large, Albanians are seen badly by the rest of the Balkans because they became Muslims and assisted the Turks. The truth hurts unfortunately and it is sad that many Albanians turned to become Mohammedans when Skanderbeg faught with such passion the Turks and kept Kruja and the vicinity Ottoman free for a quarter of a century.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balkanite View Post
    Yes, i wrote 40-60% because i hadn't watched the video myself for a while. I just remembered that the proportions of Romi and Arvanite was 40/60.
    But now that you correct me, i will edit my first post. But anyway, the 40% kinda still underlines my point :)
    And these are not territorial delusions. I am a very objective, and i am just trying to point out that folks like you are very wrong, and that you are not even backed up by your own academics :)
    I like greeks. No. I actually love greeks, or else i wouldn't take a 6 year long faculty where we read about nothing but the ancients greeks and romans.
    I probably write and read ancient greek better than you :)
    But nevertheless, i do not wan't any small unschooled village boy to come here and ruin how i see greeks. I actually don't care that you don't want to learn.
    For me it is enough that your most acknowledged historian say the same things as me, and not the same things as you :)
    To me, that is an indication that the modern greek lies are dying out, and that eventually Greece will recognize the Cham issue, and that someday greeks and albanians can be brothers again.
    But there are a specific kind of greek individuals, and some albanians, who are just throwing fuel on the fire, instead of using that fuel constructively.
    The most important thing though, is that scholars like myself and Maria Eftimiu are constructing reality in the form of books and lecture. While people like you are just trying to promote hatred through diverse forums.
    Trust me, the scholars will win soon, because we have the Ethos that you lack :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balkanite View Post
    They give several kinds of awards i think. But the one that Maria got is for excellence in academic teaching. In other words, she is such a good teacher, that she got an award for her teaching.

    She teaches history, not mathematics or physics.

    then she took the reward for importing new methods of teaching.
    the excellence in this reward has to do with new methods.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  3. #28
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    There was a period that called for the "Megali Idea" in Greece during Venizelos' period. Greece through wars became larger and larger incorporating most of the Greeks outside motherland. The last stage of "Megali Idea" was played in Asia Minor, in the so called Asia Minor Expedition, where we lost the war to the Neo-Turks (Kemalists). Ten years of continuous march of the Greek army, from the Balkan wars till now, stopped at Sangarios (Sakarya) river. This catastrophe eradicated the 3,000 years of continuous Greek inhabitance in Asia Minor. A population exchange followed afterwards and high ranked generals and politicians were hanged.

    We Greeks, at least most of us, are risen to remember what was ours time and again. Naturally, this leads us to specific traits and behaviors. Make no mistake about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I'm not quite sure I'm following the logic here. Is this just code for proposing a change of borders in accordance with hotly contested versions of medieval history?

    Honestly, from an outsider, I think your time would be better spent figuring out how to increase prosperity and quality of life for people no matter where they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balkanite View Post
    They give several kinds of awards i think. But the one that Maria got is for excellence in academic teaching. In other words, she is such a good teacher, that she got an award for her teaching.

    She teaches history, not mathematics or physics.

    The award is just named after Vassilis Xanthopoulos and Stephanos Pnevmatikos, because they were murdered while lecturing in 1991. And they were physicians and mathematicians. But that has nothing to do with the fact that Maria Eftimiou won an award for academic teaching(within her field, history, of course)

    Now just because Alfred Nobel was a chemist doesn't mean that they don't give Nobel prices in literature or other disciplines than chemistry

    Xanthopoulos had a big program that cost a lot to Greek citizens,
    that all his lessons were via Computer, it was considered a new method

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    Okay you actually just made my day Diomedes and Yetos.
    Your complete lack of ability to learn, understand and bring about legit arguments amaze me.
    It just confirms to me that i don't even have to spend my time teaching you, because no one will ever listen to you in real life anyways.
    Not even your own educational system. Your educational system i actually teaches it's students the exact opposite of what you believe in.
    Take your conspiracy theories to the youtube comments section instead.
    I am out of this thread. Write all the non-sense you want to now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balkanite View Post
    But i don't want to call myself a greek suddently, just because the ancient greeks are suddently glorified the last 300 years :)
    300 years ago no one called themselves greeks, there were some who called themselves romi(modern greek speakers) and then there were arvanites(albanian speakers). But when ancient hellens suddently started to get academic attention, all the romis and most arvanites started to call themselves hellens, even though they hadn't called themselves that for almost 2000 years. Many words which were slavic and turkic got replaced by the words they saw in the ancient texts and inscriptions.
    I admit i am arvanite. There is nothing wrong with being realistic :)

    Νo Man you are an Arvanitis,
    you are a Χαλδουπις and Ντουντουμις

    cause even in the time you mention he was Γραικος Greek


    και κανεις Χαλδουπις δεν τον λυπηθηκε, να του φυτεψει μια σφαιρα.

    αυτος ηταν ο αρχηγος Xαλδουπις


    θα σε ευχαριστουσε πολυ να μας εκανες οτι εκανε και αυτος, σωστα?
    δλδ οτι εκανε ο Αλβανος και ο στρατος των Αλβανων σε Ελληνες και Αρβανιτες.
    μνημη χρυσοψαρου.

    Good night Dudumi.


    WHAT AMAZES ME,
    Eythymioy and Demopoulos and Kollias etc etc say they were numerous,
    IN FACT I WILL USE YOUR WORDS.


    IF EYTHYMIOY IS CORRECT
    Quote Originally Posted by Balkanite View Post
    - She also mentions how 40% percent of Greece were in fact Albanians 200 years ago, but most have been assimilated by now.

    - She lists all greek surnames which have an albanian origin(so DIOMEDES and LATGAL, check if your surnames are listed ;) my surname was listed )

    - She points out how greece was almost empty due to wars and plague, so byzantines and venetians invited albanians to protect the greek citites.
    .

    THEN WHY AT ΤΡΟΙΖΗΝΑ and rest Εθνοσυνελευσεις we do not see this.
    REMEMBER TROIZENA WAS EVEN BEFORE GREEK STATE, AND ARVANITES WERE THERE.
    SO IF AS CLAIM WERE 40% what happened there?

    Simply memory of goldfish and a lie,
    I do not need more,
    Just when Troizena gathering happened.
    and what happened there if Albanians were 40% of state.



    YOU ARE NOT AN ARBANITIS, YOU ARE AN ALBANIAN PLAYING THAT HE IS ARBANITIS


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    Please, mention the parts you do not agree. Then we will look at historical facts and try to understand whether the statements I made are wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balkanite View Post
    Your complete lack of ability to learn, understand and bring about legit arguments amaze me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balkanite View Post
    Various stuff
    As I said, I'm not interested in retreading this particular ground extensively. Euthymiou was wrong about her 40%, nonetheless, which was basically an off-hand comment in a casual video of all things that dealt with a much broader topic (in relation to that, she also mentions a specific Ottoman census which covered only the Northeast Peloponnese which was heavily settled by Albanians and so wouldn't be representative of the general area even in Medieval times, this has been covered in the past). This is clear if you look at the actual non-Greek estimates from the first Greek kingdom that speak of a max ~20% of Albanian speakers. That's all I'll say on that matter since it's gotten boring.

    As for your reply to the OP, sure, I agree but I'm allowed to evaluate your comments like "Eventually al these areas will come home to where they belong" as well in turn. Nothing wrong with that.


    Either way, what Yetos and Diomedes are posting now are equivalent comments to yours, just from the national Greek perspective. Enjoy I guess.

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    @ Latgal

    the census of Greek state had always mention about non Greek speakers,
    Arbanites were about 50 000 to 150 000 at first Greek state.
    and even till 1990's
    not even 10 %, and they were gathered in certain areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LATGAL View Post
    Things
    Oh, i completely forgot about you.
    Let me do it short for you too, and ill be out.
    1. My comments were nothing like Diomedes and Yetos. I was just reciting a greek acknowledged scholar. Or maybe Maria Eftimiu(a greek) is also an albanian nationalist according to you?
    2. She isn't only talking about Peloponessos. But Almost the whole of Greece, including Euboia, Boetia, Cycladic Island, Attica, Epirus and several others. you obviously didn't watch the video for more than 10 minutes.
    3. I told you not to comment if you didn't have the abilities to watch it to the end. My first comment was directed only at people with enough capacity to watch an 1 hour lecture.
    4. I am out my friends. Enjoy your delusions you three guys ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    @ Latgal

    the census of Greek state had always mention about non Greek speakers,
    Arbanites were about 50 000 to 150 000 at first Greek state.
    and even till 1990's
    not even 10 %, and they were gathered in certain areas.
    There were various estimates. Biris collects them all in his book with some critical discussion. A max of 20% is noted though various estimates are given, as you wrote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balkanite View Post
    Oh, i completely forgot about you.
    Let me do it short for you too, and ill be out.
    1. My comments were nothing like Diomedes and Yetos. I was just reciting a greek acknowledged scholar.
    2. She isn't only talking about Peloponessos. But Almost the whole of Greece, including Euboia, Boetia, Cycladic Island, Attica, Epirus and several others. you obviously didn't watch the video for more than 10 minutes.
    3. I told you not to comment if you didn't have the abilities to watch it to the end. My first comment was directed only at people with enough capacity to watch an 1 hour lecture.
    4. I am out my friends. Enjoy your delusions you three guys ;)
    You misunderstood what I wrote. Her overall reference was specifically to the first Greek kingdom. It includes the areas you mentioned except Epirus. My comment in parentheses about the Peloponnese was about her immediate reference after, to the Ottoman census in specifically Corinthia (in the northeast Peloponnese).

    As for your comments, I won't take your own word for what exactly they represent. We can just agree to disagree on that.

    This same discussion every other week...

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    If you have good arguments, why leave?

    P.S. LATGAL must be a broette.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balkanite View Post
    I am out my friends. Enjoy your delusions you three guys ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diomedes View Post
    If you have good arguments, why leave?
    Because if your own scholars won't even listen to your theories, why should i then?
    If you were able to learn, i think you would have learned by now.
    I don't get paid to convince you of anything.
    Therefore, as many good arguments as i may have, you do not deserve them.

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    A scholar who does not want to disseminate his knowledge, no true scholar he is.

    P.S. What do you mean when you say "won't even listen to your theories". Which theories are you talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Balkanite View Post
    Because if your own scholars won't even listen to your theories, why should i then?
    If you were able to learn, i think you would have learned by now.
    I don't get paid to convince you of anything.
    Therefore, as many good arguments as i may have, you do not deserve them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diomedes View Post
    A scholar who does not want to disseminate his knowledge, no true scholar he is.
    Hehe, never heard such an absurd sentence. Of course scholars choose wisely who they teach. Why bother disseminating anything before a crowd where the disseminated material will not be understood anyway.
    Watch the video if you want to hear approximately what i believe in.

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    I have seen that video long ago. I do not claim that arvanites were not in Greece. The point is that you act as an agent provocateur in this whole conversation since the very beginning. Shame ...

    Do not worry, we Greeks also have a certain mental capacity to understand things. Why keep this knowledge secret? If not myself, some others might appreciate your knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balkanite View Post
    Hehe, never heard such an absurd sentence. Of course scholars choose wisely who they teach. Why bother disseminating anything before a crowd where the disseminated material will not understood anyway.
    Watch the video if you want to hear approximately what i believe in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diomedes View Post
    I have seen that video long ago. I do not claim that arvanites were not in Greece. The point is that you act as an agent provocateur in this whole conversation since the very beginning. Shame ...

    Do not worry, we Greeks also have a certain mental capacity to understand things. Why keep this knowledge secret? If not myself, some others might appreciate your knowledge.
    Yes if people wan't to learn more, they can watch the video i linked. That is why i linked it to start with. Do you want me to come and massage your neck and give you comments on the things she says? I am no servant. I linked the video to be nice so you could watch it yourselves, and i just listed some of the points of the video so people had a chance to know if it was something they would be interested in seeing or not. So if you don't want to watch the video, don't watch it. But don't expect me to elaborate everything she says within that whole hour of lecture. Watch it yourself again if you really don't remember what she says. And you must not remember, since you ask me to repeat her arguments to you..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diomedes View Post
    I have seen that video long ago. I do not claim that arvanites were not in Greece. The point is that you act as an agent provocateur in this whole conversation since the very beginning. Shame ...

    Do not worry, we Greeks also have a certain mental capacity to understand things. Why keep this knowledge secret? If not myself, some others might appreciate your knowledge.
    And why you, as a greek yourself, see a link to a lecture of The University of Athens as a provocation. That i simply can't grasp

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    Listen man, you got pissed of when I said that some Chams assisted Nazis and that Albanians (of the Muslim faith) are not perceived well from the other Balkan people. I did not say anything about Arvanites/Arbereshe (who are actually Christians). Are the Chams Christians? I doubt that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balkanite View Post
    Yes if people wan't to learn more, they can watch the video i linked. That is why i linked it to start with. Do you want me to come and massage your neck and give you comments on the things she says? I am no servant. I linked the video to be nice so you could watch it yourselves, and i just listed some of the points of the video so people had a chance to know if it was something they would be interested in seeing or not. So if you don't want to watch the video, don't watch it. But don't expect me to elaborate everything she says within that whole hour of lecture. Watch it yourself again if you really don't remember what she says. And you must not remember, since you ask me to repeat her arguments to you..

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    It's not about that video. It is when you say how lands will return where they belong and the like (meaning greater Albania of course).

    Quote Originally Posted by Balkanite View Post
    And why you, as a greek yourself, see a link to a lecture of The University of Athens as a provocation. That i simply can't grasp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diomedes View Post
    It's not about that video. It is when you say how lands will return where they belong and the like (meaning greater Albania of course).
    YES, she said that in the video! She is a greek, so of course she is not talking of greater albania, she is just telling her views on what will happen in the world scene during the next decades.
    If you had seen the video, you would know that i was just citing what she says!!

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    Chams were Ottoman citizens,
    who Benizelos did not change at the exchange of population.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balkanite View Post
    And why you, as a greek yourself, see a link to a lecture of The University of Athens as a provocation. That i simply can't grasp
    a lecture at university means nothing,

    in one amphitheater they can glorify communism,
    and in the next they can glorify capitalism
    ,

    THAT IS DEMOCRACY AND UNIVERSITY,
    AN OPEN TO DISCUSSION.
    WHAT IS SAID AT UNIVERSITY DOES NOT ALWaYS MEAN IS CORRECT.
    THE METHODS, THE DATA, THE RESULTS ETC MAKE IT CORRECT.

    even lectures for 'alliens' can be heard at university.
    the aftermath make the difference,
    do you know how many Phd are ruined etc etc aftermath?

    and back to you,
    memory of a goldfish, Haldoupi,

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diomedes View Post
    Chams would have been alright and still live in that area should they have not assisted the Nazi Germans--I do not mean all of the Cham population. That was the main reason Napoleon Zervas and his squad did what they did.

    By and large, Albanians are seen badly by the rest of the Balkans because they became Muslims and assisted the Turks. The truth hurts unfortunately and it is sad that many Albanians turned to become Mohammedans when Skanderbeg faught with such passion the Turks and kept Kruja and the vicinity Ottoman free for a quarter of a century.
    I think you are wrong.

    2002
    Miranda Vickers:
    The Cham Issue: Albanian National and Property Claims in Greece

    Introduction

    The Chams are the ethnic Albanian, and predominantly Muslim, population from the area of north western Greece known to Greeks as Threspotia and to Albanians as Chameria. The region, which is centred around the Tsamis river, extends from Butrint and the mouth of the Acheron River to Lake Prespa in the north, eastward to the Pindus mountains and south as far as Preveza and the Gulf of Arta. Nineteenth century British travellers such as Lord Byron and his companion John Hobhouse noted the preponderance of Albanian-speakers in these regions.


    Historical Background

    The name 'Chameria' comes from the ancient Illyrian name for the Tsamis River, which traversed the territory of the ancient Illyrian tribe of Thesprotes. Chameria was part of the Roman Empire before being conquered by the Byzantines, and in the thirteenth century it became part of the Epirus despotate. In the second half of the fourteenth century it was included in the Albanian despotate of Arta. After the Ottoman invasion in the 15th century it was firstly in the sanjak (municipality) of Delvina, then in that of Janina. In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, the mostly Albanian population of northern Chameria - from Konispol to the Gliqi river - was forcibly converted to Islam, whilst those living south of the Gliqi down to Preveza Bay remained Orthodox Christians.
    After the defeat of the Ottoman forces during the Balkan Wars (1912-1913), the future of Albanian-inhabited areas was discussed at the hastily convened Conference of Ambassadors held in London in December 1912-January 1913, where it was agreed in principle to support the establishment of Albania as a new political entity.
    Greece had emerged from the Balkan Wars with a heightened sense of achievement, and a determination to try to secure southern Albania for Greece. The emphasis was not on territory that was ethnically strictly Greek, but rather on lands in which Hellenic civilisation was believed to be predominant. (8) In October 1913 the Epirote insurrection broke out, as Greek volunteers raided southern Albania, terrorising its inhabitants by burning their villages. The Greek objective was to set up an autonomous Vorio Epirus (Northern Epirus), in an attempt to sabotage the international discussions then being held in Florence on the future status of the region. Finally in December 1913, the Powers agreed on the terms of the Protocol of Florence, whereby, in return for Serbia's retreat from Albanian territory, Austria reluctantly agreed that the Albanian districts in what is now Kosovo and Macedonia should be formerly ceded to Serbia, whilst Greece received the large southern region of Chameria. The Albanian state was thus reduced to the central regions together with the town of Shkodër and its surrounding territory.
    Following the establishment of the Florence Line, some Greek troops began to withdraw from Chameria. Greek terrorist bands, however, remained as active as ever. As the majority of Chams were Muslim, they were treated with the same contempt as ethnic Turks living in Greece. On 23 February 1913, 72 people were killed in the village of Proi i Selanit near Paramithia. This marked the beginning of attacks on Albanian Muslim civilian targets, which were designed to instil fear into the population and thus prompt them to leave their homes. Throughout the next decade, the property of Albanian Muslims was systematically looted and many young men were deported to internal exile on the Aegean islands. Thousands of hectares of Cham-owned land were expropriated without compensation, their harvests were requisitioned, and they were prohibited from sowing their corn, or from selling or letting their property to forestall its expropriation. It was thus rendered impossible for many families to remain in Greece - forcing them to flee northwards to Albanian in search of land. (9) In an effort to settle the Cham issue, the Athens government had tried to gain Ankara's approval for encouraging some Chams to migrate to Turkey, in the hope that the rest would follow. Initially Ankara had been unwilling to allow the settlement of Albanian Muslims on Turkish soil, but following intense diplomatic efforts by Athens, the Turkish government agreed to allow the settlement of some 5,000 Chams.
    Meanwhile, in 1923, the position regarding the 20,000 or so Muslim Albanians still remaining in northern Greece was being hotly debated at a special session of the Council of the League of Nations. The convention that made possible the exchange of Greek and Turkish populations had been signed at the Lausanne Conference on 30 January 1923. The Albanian government had then insisted, via telegrams and delegations to the League, that the Greek authorities were forcing the Chams to leave their homes and move to Turkey, and that their lands were being settled by Greek immigrants from Asia Minor. The Greeks countered these accusations by arguing that the term 'Albanian' could only be applied to those who were born in Albania, thereby excluding from consideration the Greek-born Albanian Muslims, who were equated with Turks. The League responded to the Albanian allegations by establishing a Mixed Commission to examine the question in detail.
    In March 1924, the Commission decided that Greek subjects who were Muslims and of Albanian origin, and more specifically those residing in Epirus, had to be excluded from the compulsory exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey. (10) For the Albanian Chams, however, the issue centred around their claims to belong to the Albanian nation. The Council of the League discussed this matter during its thirtieth session (29 August-3 October): the Albanian position maintained that the Greek authorities were encouraging the 'Albanians of Epirus' to consider mass migration by calling them 'Greeks of Turkish origin' and convincing them to adopt the second identity in their public pronouncements. The Council finally decided to appoint neutral members of the Mixed Commission as its 'mandatories' charged with the responsibility of protecting the 'Muslim minority of Albanian origin' residing in Greece. (11) Meanwhile, the Athens government settled Greek immigrants from Asia Minor in Chameria in order to populate it with Orthodox Christians, and to put further pressure on the remaining Albanian Muslims to emigrate. Throughout the 1920s entire villages, such as Petrovica and Shëndellinja were emptied of their Albanian inhabitants. Whole families left for Albania, Turkey and America.
    In March 1926, the Greek government declared that the process of population exchange was over and that the Chams would henceforth have the same rights as those enjoyed by other Greek citizens, However, these "rights" remained highly selective. No Albanian-language schools were permitted and the speaking of Albanian was discouraged outside the home. The signing of the Italian-Albanian pact in November 1926 caused some anxiety in Athens and focused Greek attention on the still unresolved question of the Chams, which was leading to increased tensions between Greece and Albania. The Greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs had serious reservations about the pact because it was feared that the interests of the Albanians for their "brothers" in Epirus now had the backing of an important power, whose territorial ambitions in the Balkans could benefit from the existence of the Cham minority which favoured Italy and was hostile to the Greek state. Italy could also use the Chams as a counterweight to Greek ambitions in southern Albania.
    Albanian charges directed against Greece concerning the Muslims of Chameria gradually increased and reached their climax during the first half of 1928. In March, the Albanian Foreign Ministry delivered a memorandum to the Greek chargé d'affaires in Tirana, which highlighted Tirana's concern over the 'austere measures' exercised by the local authorities against the Chams, and expressed a formal protest that the Greek government did not recognise them as a 'national minority'.
    The Greek side argued that 'the Albanian government had no right to get involved in the domestic affairs of another country: the Chams were Greek citizens and the projection of Albania as a protector state constituted disregard of the basic elements of Greek sovereign rights.' (12) With the coming to power of the Ioannis Metaxas fascist government in 1936, the situation of the Albanian population of Chameria became even more difficult. The colonisation of the area by Greeks intensified, confiscation of Cham property was stepped up and the names of places inhabited by Albanians were replaced by Greek place names. (13) In the meantime, the League of Nations continued to note the Albanian protests over the treatment of the Chams, but by then more important issues were now emerging concerning other minorities in Europe.
    Source:
    [reprint of: Miranda Vickers: The Cham Issue: Albanian National and Property Claims in Greece. ISBN 1-903584-76-0 (Conflict Studies Research Centre, Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, Surrey 2002), reprint in: Südosteuropa, Zeitschrift für Gegenwartsforschung, Munich, 2002, 51, 4-6, p. 228-249. For an update on the Cham issue, cf. Miranda Vickers: The Cham Issue, Where to Now?, January 2007, at: http://www.da.mod.uk/colleges/csrc/d...ings/balkan/ ]


    As you can see, an Albanian territory, inhabited since antiquity by Albanians, was given as a gift to Greece by the Great Powers. The region was invaded by Greece during the Balkan Wars. And from this moment Greece start a genocide against the authocthonous population of this region the Albanians. The intention is evident, ethnic cleaning. For 30 years the muslim Albanians were killed and expelled. At their place, Greece settled Christian Turks arrived from Asia Minor during the exchange of population between Turkey and Greece. The christian Albanians are not recognised as a minority. Do you have any information about the existence of any Albanian school for this people in the region of Çamëria or South Epir today under Greek occupation? If you know, tell us please.
    About the conversion of the Albanians in Muslims, i don't think that you are the right person to discuss this.
    I asked in another thread to another greek member to show me a single battle of the greeks against the Ottomans during the invasion of Greece, roughly XIV-XV century. He didn't show me a single battle. The resistance of the Albanians against Ottomans and their role in saving Europe from the Ottoman invasion is well documented and recognized.
    But i want to be honest with you. When i asked your friend to show me a battle of greeks against the Ottomans, my intention was not to beat the chest, no. The point is there were greeks back in XIV-XV century? Because two centuries without a peep are too much. It's like the electrocardiograma of a dead person.
    17 Dec.
    Paget to the Council.
    Now the Council's letters seem to imply (words quoted) that the King will keep no strangers save the Albanoys.
    Cales, 17 Dec. 1545. Signed.
    O me zhabat në moçale, o me zhgabat lart në male!
    -Petro Nini Luarasi-

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    a lecture at university means nothing,

    and back to you,
    memory of a goldfish, Haldoupi,
    Yea your right. Maybe your nationalistic chants and your insults mean more that lectures at The Univeristy of Athens.

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