On the future of Europe and European Boarders

I have seen that video long ago. I do not claim that arvanites were not in Greece. The point is that you act as an agent provocateur in this whole conversation since the very beginning. Shame ...

Do not worry, we Greeks also have a certain mental capacity to understand things. Why keep this knowledge secret? If not myself, some others might appreciate your knowledge.

Hehe, never heard such an absurd sentence. Of course scholars choose wisely who they teach. Why bother disseminating anything before a crowd where the disseminated material will not understood anyway.
Watch the video if you want to hear approximately what i believe in.
 
I have seen that video long ago. I do not claim that arvanites were not in Greece. The point is that you act as an agent provocateur in this whole conversation since the very beginning. Shame ...

Do not worry, we Greeks also have a certain mental capacity to understand things. Why keep this knowledge secret? If not myself, some others might appreciate your knowledge.
Yes if people wan't to learn more, they can watch the video i linked. That is why i linked it to start with. Do you want me to come and massage your neck and give you comments on the things she says? I am no servant. I linked the video to be nice so you could watch it yourselves, and i just listed some of the points of the video so people had a chance to know if it was something they would be interested in seeing or not. So if you don't want to watch the video, don't watch it. But don't expect me to elaborate everything she says within that whole hour of lecture. Watch it yourself again if you really don't remember what she says. And you must not remember, since you ask me to repeat her arguments to you..
 
I have seen that video long ago. I do not claim that arvanites were not in Greece. The point is that you act as an agent provocateur in this whole conversation since the very beginning. Shame ...

Do not worry, we Greeks also have a certain mental capacity to understand things. Why keep this knowledge secret? If not myself, some others might appreciate your knowledge.
And why you, as a greek yourself, see a link to a lecture of The University of Athens as a provocation. That i simply can't grasp
 
Listen man, you got pissed of when I said that some Chams assisted Nazis and that Albanians (of the Muslim faith) are not perceived well from the other Balkan people. I did not say anything about Arvanites/Arbereshe (who are actually Christians). Are the Chams Christians? I doubt that.

Yes if people wan't to learn more, they can watch the video i linked. That is why i linked it to start with. Do you want me to come and massage your neck and give you comments on the things she says? I am no servant. I linked the video to be nice so you could watch it yourselves, and i just listed some of the points of the video so people had a chance to know if it was something they would be interested in seeing or not. So if you don't want to watch the video, don't watch it. But don't expect me to elaborate everything she says within that whole hour of lecture. Watch it yourself again if you really don't remember what she says. And you must not remember, since you ask me to repeat her arguments to you..
 
It's not about that video. It is when you say how lands will return where they belong and the like (meaning greater Albania of course).

And why you, as a greek yourself, see a link to a lecture of The University of Athens as a provocation. That i simply can't grasp
 
It's not about that video. It is when you say how lands will return where they belong and the like (meaning greater Albania of course).
YES, she said that in the video! She is a greek, so of course she is not talking of greater albania, she is just telling her views on what will happen in the world scene during the next decades.
If you had seen the video, you would know that i was just citing what she says!!
 
Chams were Ottoman citizens,
who Benizelos did not change at the exchange of population.
 
And why you, as a greek yourself, see a link to a lecture of The University of Athens as a provocation. That i simply can't grasp

a lecture at university means nothing,

in one amphitheater they can glorify communism,
and in the next they can glorify capitalism
,

THAT IS DEMOCRACY AND UNIVERSITY,
AN OPEN TO DISCUSSION.
WHAT IS SAID AT UNIVERSITY DOES NOT ALWaYS MEAN IS CORRECT.
THE METHODS, THE DATA, THE RESULTS ETC MAKE IT CORRECT.

even lectures for 'alliens' can be heard at university.
the aftermath make the difference,
do you know how many Phd are ruined etc etc aftermath?

and back to you,
memory of a goldfish, Haldoupi,
 
Chams would have been alright and still live in that area should they have not assisted the Nazi Germans--I do not mean all of the Cham population. That was the main reason Napoleon Zervas and his squad did what they did.

By and large, Albanians are seen badly by the rest of the Balkans because they became Muslims and assisted the Turks. The truth hurts unfortunately and it is sad that many Albanians turned to become Mohammedans when Skanderbeg faught with such passion the Turks and kept Kruja and the vicinity Ottoman free for a quarter of a century.

I think you are wrong.

2002
Miranda Vickers:
The Cham Issue: Albanian National and Property Claims in Greece

Introduction

The Chams are the ethnic Albanian, and predominantly Muslim, population from the area of north western Greece known to Greeks as Threspotia and to Albanians as Chameria. The region, which is centred around the Tsamis river, extends from Butrint and the mouth of the Acheron River to Lake Prespa in the north, eastward to the Pindus mountains and south as far as Preveza and the Gulf of Arta. Nineteenth century British travellers such as Lord Byron and his companion John Hobhouse noted the preponderance of Albanian-speakers in these regions.


Historical Background

The name 'Chameria' comes from the ancient Illyrian name for the Tsamis River, which traversed the territory of the ancient Illyrian tribe of Thesprotes. Chameria was part of the Roman Empire before being conquered by the Byzantines, and in the thirteenth century it became part of the Epirus despotate. In the second half of the fourteenth century it was included in the Albanian despotate of Arta. After the Ottoman invasion in the 15th century it was firstly in the sanjak (municipality) of Delvina, then in that of Janina. In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, the mostly Albanian population of northern Chameria - from Konispol to the Gliqi river - was forcibly converted to Islam, whilst those living south of the Gliqi down to Preveza Bay remained Orthodox Christians.
After the defeat of the Ottoman forces during the Balkan Wars (1912-1913), the future of Albanian-inhabited areas was discussed at the hastily convened Conference of Ambassadors held in London in December 1912-January 1913, where it was agreed in principle to support the establishment of Albania as a new political entity.
Greece had emerged from the Balkan Wars with a heightened sense of achievement, and a determination to try to secure southern Albania for Greece. The emphasis was not on territory that was ethnically strictly Greek, but rather on lands in which Hellenic civilisation was believed to be predominant. (8) In October 1913 the Epirote insurrection broke out, as Greek volunteers raided southern Albania, terrorising its inhabitants by burning their villages. The Greek objective was to set up an autonomous Vorio Epirus (Northern Epirus), in an attempt to sabotage the international discussions then being held in Florence on the future status of the region. Finally in December 1913, the Powers agreed on the terms of the Protocol of Florence, whereby, in return for Serbia's retreat from Albanian territory, Austria reluctantly agreed that the Albanian districts in what is now Kosovo and Macedonia should be formerly ceded to Serbia, whilst Greece received the large southern region of Chameria. The Albanian state was thus reduced to the central regions together with the town of Shkodër and its surrounding territory.
Following the establishment of the Florence Line, some Greek troops began to withdraw from Chameria. Greek terrorist bands, however, remained as active as ever. As the majority of Chams were Muslim, they were treated with the same contempt as ethnic Turks living in Greece. On 23 February 1913, 72 people were killed in the village of Proi i Selanit near Paramithia. This marked the beginning of attacks on Albanian Muslim civilian targets, which were designed to instil fear into the population and thus prompt them to leave their homes. Throughout the next decade, the property of Albanian Muslims was systematically looted and many young men were deported to internal exile on the Aegean islands. Thousands of hectares of Cham-owned land were expropriated without compensation, their harvests were requisitioned, and they were prohibited from sowing their corn, or from selling or letting their property to forestall its expropriation. It was thus rendered impossible for many families to remain in Greece - forcing them to flee northwards to Albanian in search of land. (9) In an effort to settle the Cham issue, the Athens government had tried to gain Ankara's approval for encouraging some Chams to migrate to Turkey, in the hope that the rest would follow. Initially Ankara had been unwilling to allow the settlement of Albanian Muslims on Turkish soil, but following intense diplomatic efforts by Athens, the Turkish government agreed to allow the settlement of some 5,000 Chams.
Meanwhile, in 1923, the position regarding the 20,000 or so Muslim Albanians still remaining in northern Greece was being hotly debated at a special session of the Council of the League of Nations. The convention that made possible the exchange of Greek and Turkish populations had been signed at the Lausanne Conference on 30 January 1923. The Albanian government had then insisted, via telegrams and delegations to the League, that the Greek authorities were forcing the Chams to leave their homes and move to Turkey, and that their lands were being settled by Greek immigrants from Asia Minor. The Greeks countered these accusations by arguing that the term 'Albanian' could only be applied to those who were born in Albania, thereby excluding from consideration the Greek-born Albanian Muslims, who were equated with Turks. The League responded to the Albanian allegations by establishing a Mixed Commission to examine the question in detail.
In March 1924, the Commission decided that Greek subjects who were Muslims and of Albanian origin, and more specifically those residing in Epirus, had to be excluded from the compulsory exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey. (10) For the Albanian Chams, however, the issue centred around their claims to belong to the Albanian nation. The Council of the League discussed this matter during its thirtieth session (29 August-3 October): the Albanian position maintained that the Greek authorities were encouraging the 'Albanians of Epirus' to consider mass migration by calling them 'Greeks of Turkish origin' and convincing them to adopt the second identity in their public pronouncements. The Council finally decided to appoint neutral members of the Mixed Commission as its 'mandatories' charged with the responsibility of protecting the 'Muslim minority of Albanian origin' residing in Greece. (11) Meanwhile, the Athens government settled Greek immigrants from Asia Minor in Chameria in order to populate it with Orthodox Christians, and to put further pressure on the remaining Albanian Muslims to emigrate. Throughout the 1920s entire villages, such as Petrovica and Shëndellinja were emptied of their Albanian inhabitants. Whole families left for Albania, Turkey and America.
In March 1926, the Greek government declared that the process of population exchange was over and that the Chams would henceforth have the same rights as those enjoyed by other Greek citizens, However, these "rights" remained highly selective. No Albanian-language schools were permitted and the speaking of Albanian was discouraged outside the home. The signing of the Italian-Albanian pact in November 1926 caused some anxiety in Athens and focused Greek attention on the still unresolved question of the Chams, which was leading to increased tensions between Greece and Albania. The Greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs had serious reservations about the pact because it was feared that the interests of the Albanians for their "brothers" in Epirus now had the backing of an important power, whose territorial ambitions in the Balkans could benefit from the existence of the Cham minority which favoured Italy and was hostile to the Greek state. Italy could also use the Chams as a counterweight to Greek ambitions in southern Albania.
Albanian charges directed against Greece concerning the Muslims of Chameria gradually increased and reached their climax during the first half of 1928. In March, the Albanian Foreign Ministry delivered a memorandum to the Greek chargé d'affaires in Tirana, which highlighted Tirana's concern over the 'austere measures' exercised by the local authorities against the Chams, and expressed a formal protest that the Greek government did not recognise them as a 'national minority'.
The Greek side argued that 'the Albanian government had no right to get involved in the domestic affairs of another country: the Chams were Greek citizens and the projection of Albania as a protector state constituted disregard of the basic elements of Greek sovereign rights.' (12) With the coming to power of the Ioannis Metaxas fascist government in 1936, the situation of the Albanian population of Chameria became even more difficult. The colonisation of the area by Greeks intensified, confiscation of Cham property was stepped up and the names of places inhabited by Albanians were replaced by Greek place names. (13) In the meantime, the League of Nations continued to note the Albanian protests over the treatment of the Chams, but by then more important issues were now emerging concerning other minorities in Europe.
Source:
[reprint of: Miranda Vickers: The Cham Issue: Albanian National and Property Claims in Greece. ISBN 1-903584-76-0 (Conflict Studies Research Centre, Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, Surrey 2002), reprint in: Südosteuropa, Zeitschrift für Gegenwartsforschung, Munich, 2002, 51, 4-6, p. 228-249. For an update on the Cham issue, cf. Miranda Vickers: The Cham Issue, Where to Now?, January 2007, at: http://www.da.mod.uk/colleges/csrc/d...ings/balkan/ ]


As you can see, an Albanian territory, inhabited since antiquity by Albanians, was given as a gift to Greece by the Great Powers. The region was invaded by Greece during the Balkan Wars. And from this moment Greece start a genocide against the authocthonous population of this region the Albanians. The intention is evident, ethnic cleaning. For 30 years the muslim Albanians were killed and expelled. At their place, Greece settled Christian Turks arrived from Asia Minor during the exchange of population between Turkey and Greece. The christian Albanians are not recognised as a minority. Do you have any information about the existence of any Albanian school for this people in the region of Çamëria or South Epir today under Greek occupation? If you know, tell us please.
About the conversion of the Albanians in Muslims, i don't think that you are the right person to discuss this.
I asked in another thread to another greek member to show me a single battle of the greeks against the Ottomans during the invasion of Greece, roughly XIV-XV century. He didn't show me a single battle. The resistance of the Albanians against Ottomans and their role in saving Europe from the Ottoman invasion is well documented and recognized.
But i want to be honest with you. When i asked your friend to show me a battle of greeks against the Ottomans, my intention was not to beat the chest, no. The point is there were greeks back in XIV-XV century? Because two centuries without a peep are too much. It's like the electrocardiograma of a dead person.
 
a lecture at university means nothing,

and back to you,
memory of a goldfish, Haldoupi,
Yea your right. Maybe your nationalistic chants and your insults mean more that lectures at The Univeristy of Athens.
 
I think you are wrong.

2002
Miranda Vickers:
The Cham Issue: Albanian National and Property Claims in Greece

Introduction

The Chams are the ethnic Albanian, and predominantly Muslim, population from the area of north western Greece known to Greeks as Threspotia and to Albanians as Chameria. The region, which is centred around the Tsamis river, extends from Butrint and the mouth of the Acheron River to Lake Prespa in the north, eastward to the Pindus mountains and south as far as Preveza and the Gulf of Arta. Nineteenth century British travellers such as Lord Byron and his companion John Hobhouse noted the preponderance of Albanian-speakers in these regions.


Historical Background

The name 'Chameria' comes from the ancient Illyrian name for the Tsamis River, which traversed the territory of the ancient Illyrian tribe of Thesprotes. Chameria was part of the Roman Empire before being conquered by the Byzantines, and in the thirteenth century it became part of the Epirus despotate. In the second half of the fourteenth century it was included in the Albanian despotate of Arta. After the Ottoman invasion in the 15th century it was firstly in the sanjak (municipality) of Delvina, then in that of Janina. In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, the mostly Albanian population of northern Chameria - from Konispol to the Gliqi river - was forcibly converted to Islam, whilst those living south of the Gliqi down to Preveza Bay remained Orthodox Christians.
After the defeat of the Ottoman forces during the Balkan Wars (1912-1913), the future of Albanian-inhabited areas was discussed at the hastily convened Conference of Ambassadors held in London in December 1912-January 1913, where it was agreed in principle to support the establishment of Albania as a new political entity.
Greece had emerged from the Balkan Wars with a heightened sense of achievement, and a determination to try to secure southern Albania for Greece. The emphasis was not on territory that was ethnically strictly Greek, but rather on lands in which Hellenic civilisation was believed to be predominant. (8) In October 1913 the Epirote insurrection broke out, as Greek volunteers raided southern Albania, terrorising its inhabitants by burning their villages. The Greek objective was to set up an autonomous Vorio Epirus (Northern Epirus), in an attempt to sabotage the international discussions then being held in Florence on the future status of the region. Finally in December 1913, the Powers agreed on the terms of the Protocol of Florence, whereby, in return for Serbia's retreat from Albanian territory, Austria reluctantly agreed that the Albanian districts in what is now Kosovo and Macedonia should be formerly ceded to Serbia, whilst Greece received the large southern region of Chameria. The Albanian state was thus reduced to the central regions together with the town of Shkodër and its surrounding territory.
Following the establishment of the Florence Line, some Greek troops began to withdraw from Chameria. Greek terrorist bands, however, remained as active as ever. As the majority of Chams were Muslim, they were treated with the same contempt as ethnic Turks living in Greece. On 23 February 1913, 72 people were killed in the village of Proi i Selanit near Paramithia. This marked the beginning of attacks on Albanian Muslim civilian targets, which were designed to instil fear into the population and thus prompt them to leave their homes. Throughout the next decade, the property of Albanian Muslims was systematically looted and many young men were deported to internal exile on the Aegean islands. Thousands of hectares of Cham-owned land were expropriated without compensation, their harvests were requisitioned, and they were prohibited from sowing their corn, or from selling or letting their property to forestall its expropriation. It was thus rendered impossible for many families to remain in Greece - forcing them to flee northwards to Albanian in search of land. (9) In an effort to settle the Cham issue, the Athens government had tried to gain Ankara's approval for encouraging some Chams to migrate to Turkey, in the hope that the rest would follow. Initially Ankara had been unwilling to allow the settlement of Albanian Muslims on Turkish soil, but following intense diplomatic efforts by Athens, the Turkish government agreed to allow the settlement of some 5,000 Chams.
Meanwhile, in 1923, the position regarding the 20,000 or so Muslim Albanians still remaining in northern Greece was being hotly debated at a special session of the Council of the League of Nations. The convention that made possible the exchange of Greek and Turkish populations had been signed at the Lausanne Conference on 30 January 1923. The Albanian government had then insisted, via telegrams and delegations to the League, that the Greek authorities were forcing the Chams to leave their homes and move to Turkey, and that their lands were being settled by Greek immigrants from Asia Minor. The Greeks countered these accusations by arguing that the term 'Albanian' could only be applied to those who were born in Albania, thereby excluding from consideration the Greek-born Albanian Muslims, who were equated with Turks. The League responded to the Albanian allegations by establishing a Mixed Commission to examine the question in detail.
In March 1924, the Commission decided that Greek subjects who were Muslims and of Albanian origin, and more specifically those residing in Epirus, had to be excluded from the compulsory exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey. (10) For the Albanian Chams, however, the issue centred around their claims to belong to the Albanian nation. The Council of the League discussed this matter during its thirtieth session (29 August-3 October): the Albanian position maintained that the Greek authorities were encouraging the 'Albanians of Epirus' to consider mass migration by calling them 'Greeks of Turkish origin' and convincing them to adopt the second identity in their public pronouncements. The Council finally decided to appoint neutral members of the Mixed Commission as its 'mandatories' charged with the responsibility of protecting the 'Muslim minority of Albanian origin' residing in Greece. (11) Meanwhile, the Athens government settled Greek immigrants from Asia Minor in Chameria in order to populate it with Orthodox Christians, and to put further pressure on the remaining Albanian Muslims to emigrate. Throughout the 1920s entire villages, such as Petrovica and Shëndellinja were emptied of their Albanian inhabitants. Whole families left for Albania, Turkey and America.
In March 1926, the Greek government declared that the process of population exchange was over and that the Chams would henceforth have the same rights as those enjoyed by other Greek citizens, However, these "rights" remained highly selective. No Albanian-language schools were permitted and the speaking of Albanian was discouraged outside the home. The signing of the Italian-Albanian pact in November 1926 caused some anxiety in Athens and focused Greek attention on the still unresolved question of the Chams, which was leading to increased tensions between Greece and Albania. The Greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs had serious reservations about the pact because it was feared that the interests of the Albanians for their "brothers" in Epirus now had the backing of an important power, whose territorial ambitions in the Balkans could benefit from the existence of the Cham minority which favoured Italy and was hostile to the Greek state. Italy could also use the Chams as a counterweight to Greek ambitions in southern Albania.
Albanian charges directed against Greece concerning the Muslims of Chameria gradually increased and reached their climax during the first half of 1928. In March, the Albanian Foreign Ministry delivered a memorandum to the Greek chargé d'affaires in Tirana, which highlighted Tirana's concern over the 'austere measures' exercised by the local authorities against the Chams, and expressed a formal protest that the Greek government did not recognise them as a 'national minority'.
The Greek side argued that 'the Albanian government had no right to get involved in the domestic affairs of another country: the Chams were Greek citizens and the projection of Albania as a protector state constituted disregard of the basic elements of Greek sovereign rights.' (12) With the coming to power of the Ioannis Metaxas fascist government in 1936, the situation of the Albanian population of Chameria became even more difficult. The colonisation of the area by Greeks intensified, confiscation of Cham property was stepped up and the names of places inhabited by Albanians were replaced by Greek place names. (13) In the meantime, the League of Nations continued to note the Albanian protests over the treatment of the Chams, but by then more important issues were now emerging concerning other minorities in Europe.
Source:
[reprint of: Miranda Vickers: The Cham Issue: Albanian National and Property Claims in Greece. ISBN 1-903584-76-0 (Conflict Studies Research Centre, Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, Surrey 2002), reprint in: Südosteuropa, Zeitschrift für Gegenwartsforschung, Munich, 2002, 51, 4-6, p. 228-249. For an update on the Cham issue, cf. Miranda Vickers: The Cham Issue, Where to Now?, January 2007, at: http://www.da.mod.uk/colleges/csrc/d...ings/balkan/ ]


As you can see, an Albanian territory, inhabited since antiquity by Albanians, was given as a gift to Greece by the Great Powers. The region was invaded by Greece during the Balkan Wars. And from this moment Greece start a genocide against the authocthonous population of this region the Albanians. The intention is evident, ethnic cleaning. For 30 years the muslim Albanians were killed and expelled. At their place, Greece settled Christian Turks arrived from Asia Minor during the exchange of population between Turkey and Greece. The christian Albanians are not recognised as a minority. Do you know any Albanian school for this people in the region of Çamëria or South Epir today under Greek occupation? If you know, tell us please.
About the conversion of the Albanians in Muslims, i don't think that you are the right person to discuss this.
I asked in another thread to another greek member to show me a single battle of the greeks against the Ottomans during the invasion of Greece, roughly XIV-XV century. He didn't show me a single battle. The resistance of the Albanians against Ottomans and their role in saving Europe from the Ottoman invasion is well documented and recognized.
But i want to be honest with you. When i asked your friend to show me a battle of greeks against the Ottomans, my intention was not to beat the chest, no. The point is there were greeks back in XIV-XV century? Because two centuries without a peep are too much. Sounds like the electrocardiograma of a dead person.
Don't bother stating facts. They wont even listen to their own greek professors. Why should they listen to you?
It will just exhaust you for no reward.
 
I'm not quite sure I'm following the logic here. Is this just code for proposing a change of borders in accordance with hotly contested versions of medieval history?

Honestly, from an outsider, I think your time would be better spent figuring out how to increase prosperity and quality of life for people no matter where they are.

There are part of posts here in greek and not in English. Can you give a solution to this situation, please? Thank you.
 
Various stuff

The Albanians came to Epirus in late medieval times, the Greeks of Epirus were just as 'autochthonous' and a minority of Albanians existed in the Greek part of Epirus along the coast much like a Greek minority existed in the Albanian part, in the Southwest at the time of the Balkan Wars. So there was no 'gifting' and there were respective 'occupations'. In that area, both states ended up incorporating territory that was mostly inhabited by their own people respectively with some minorities inevitably left out. I won't get into the more contentious issues. (Unless of course you're referring only to the specific part of Greek Epirus that was inhabited by Albanians, i.e. much of the Western part, in which case some of my comments can be safely ignored but based on past interactions you think that the whole of Epirus was inhabited only by Albanians and we're basically retreading the same ground here again and again, but apparently that's how it is)

A text full of inaccuracies is apparently 'stating facts'.
 
The Albanians came to Epirus in late medieval times, the Greeks of Epirus were just as 'autochthonous' and a minority of Albanians existed in the Greek part of Epirus along the coast much like a Greek minority existed in the Albanian part, in the Southwest at the time of the Balkan Wars. So there was no 'gifting' and there were respective 'occupations'. In that area, both states ended up incorporating territory that was mostly inhabited by their own people respectively with some minorities inevitably left out. I won't get into the more contentious issues. (Unless of course you're referring only to the specific part of Greek Epirus that was inhabited by Albanians, i.e. much of the Western part, in which case some of my comments can be safely ignored but based on past interactions you think that the whole of Epirus was inhabited only by Albanians and we're basically retreading the same ground here again and again, but apparently that's how it is)

A text full of inaccuracies is apparently 'stating facts'.

Yes, all are inaccurate, leftist, marxists, jewish, etc. I can make a long answer to your post, but i am interested if you can elaborate your theory about this migration of the Albanians in Epir in late middle age.
 
Yes, all are inaccurate, leftist, marxists, jewish, etc. I can make a long answer to your post, but i am interested if you can elaborate your theory about this migration of the Albanians in Epir in late middle age.
EDIT.
About the discussion of the % of the Albanians in Greece. According to Paparrigopoulos, who was supposed to be the best prototype of a neogreek, among different others, was the mixture between greek and Albanians, something like this. Maybe you can help finding the correct quote from Paparrigopoulos.
 
Last edited:
EDIT.
About the discussion of the % of the Albanians in Greece. According to Paparrigopoulos, the best neogreek was the mixture between greek and Albanians, something like this. Maybe you can help finding the correct quote from Paparrigopoulos.


According Kolokotronis memoirs we see something else
Beside yesterday was the Battle of Lalla
Laberia plz tell us what Kolokotronis says at his Memories?

I also suggest to read Λαμπρου-Muller work,


it gives 10 000 the Albanians at Thessaly.
 
Yes, all are inaccurate, leftist, marxists, jewish, etc. I can make a long answer to your post, but i am interested if you can elaborate your theory about this migration of the Albanians in Epir in late middle age.

I was referring to your summary below. The addition about "leftists, Marxists and Jews" is your own fantasy and you added that for very transparent reasons.

The quoted text had its problems too but when we can't agree on some more basic things, which is fair enough and has become clear abundantly after plenty of conversations, there's little use to get into the details.
 
I was referring to your summary below. The addition about "leftists, Marxists and Jews" is your own fantasy and you added that for very transparent reasons.

The quoted text had its problems too but when we can't agree on some more basic things, which is fair enough and has become clear abundantly after plenty of conversations, there's little use to get into the details.

Ok, thank you, i understand your point. So you will continue to say that Albanians arrived in Epir in the late middle age but you will not elaborate this your theory.
 
I asked in another thread to another greek member to show me a single battle of the greeks against the Ottomans during the invasion of Greece, roughly XIV-XV century. He didn't show me a single battle.

There were multiple events of battles against the Turks. That person did not know, it is simple.
 
There were multiple events of battles against the Turks. That person did not know, it is simple.
It's a good thing that you know. I am very curious.
 

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