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Thread: On the future of Europe and European Boarders

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    On the future of Europe and European Boarders



    Upon reading the news regarding the referendum of independence in Catalonia--which, as it seems, will not be acknowledged by Spain,--I was wondering if there will be other parts of Europe that might ask for something similar. Our society nowadays in not that oppressive as it used to be and, frankly speaking, not all boarders are drawn as they should have been. Ergo, I was wondering whether European boarders will be the same in the future.

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    There are the sami in norway and sweden. kurds in turkey, other iberians in spain, albanians in greece, albanians in fyrom, albanians in preshevo valley, albanians in montenegro.
    Eventually al these areas will come home to where they belong :)

    I saw that The court in Hague just accepted the Cham Issue of northern greece as an actual issue last year. They are going to look closer at the issue in Holland now. So within a year or two we will see northern greece become albanian again. Or at least some compensation in the form of lands and money are going to be made to those albanian families and communities expelled by greeks 70 years ago :)
    There is not much info on it yet, because i think they want to keep it on the down low. But i can give you a link if you want to know more:)

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    But interesting about the catalans. Have there been an actual referendum or are they still just talking? :)

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    ^ So you are an Albanian then. I thought you were Irish in the first place.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    It is actually great if Catalonia becomes independent. Because then Spain won't have a reason not to recognize Kosovo and Scotland's independence anymore :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diomedes View Post
    ^ So you are an Albanian then. I thought you were Irish in the first place.
    I live in Ireland. Im half Irish half Arvanite from Igoumenitsa.
    So probably just as greek as you :)

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    But i don't want to call myself a greek suddently, just because the ancient greeks are suddently glorified the last 300 years :)
    300 years ago no one called themselves greeks, there were some who called themselves romi(modern greek speakers) and then there were arvanites(albanian speakers). But when ancient hellens suddently started to get academic attention, all the romis and most arvanites started to call themselves hellens, even though they hadn't called themselves that for almost 2000 years. Many words which were slavic and turkic got replaced by the words they saw in the ancient texts and inscriptions.
    I admit i am arvanite. There is nothing wrong with being realistic :)

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    But it is a bit off topic to discuss our whereabouts and origin here. Lets stick to the catalan thing :)

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    Well, the Greeks are one of the most important (if not the most important) civilizations that ever existed on the face of this earth. It is sad that the lights of Greece did not continue linearly in the space-time continuum. Alas, it was not meant to be.

    Every person that goes to school, more than once will see the glorious name of Greece. A small country that achieved so much. This is Greece. A beacon of light for the centuries that were, are, and for those to come.

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    hehe you are acting as if someone attacked greeks. Calm down bro. I work with greek and roman archeology all the time.
    But you should try reading "Anthropology through the looking-glass: Critical Ethnography in the margins of europe" by Michael Herzfeld.
    It will reschool you completely. He is a pro-hellene so don't worry, but he will make you see how the situation really is.

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    That might be a good read actually. Thanks

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    http://assets.cambridge.org/97805213...21340038ws.pdf
    It is from cambridge, so it think its only a preview or something.
    Just an appetizer. It is a good read, everyone should read it some time.

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    Well, the route that Italy has taken with a lot of these situations is just give local minority groups a lot of autonomy and respect for their language. No need for violent conflict.

    Look at the Arbereshe: these Albanian migrants have been treated better in Italy than in the Balkans. Nobody cares if they speak Arbereshe or worship in a slightly different way.

    Actually, I wish some of the German speaking groups in far northern Italy would just secede already. They get way too much money. They won't, though; they get too many benefits in their situation. To think of all the lives lost to get those trifling pieces of land. I personally think it was all an abysmal waste of human life.

    If we were going to fight for something, and I don't at all think we should have, we should have fought for Nizza.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Look at the Arbereshe: these Albanian migrants have been treated better in Italy than in the Balkans. Nobody cares if they speak Arbereshe or worship in a slightly different way.
    At the time of the Arbereshe it was more of a power game in the balkans, but it was 'in the house' with local landlord fights.

    With the arrival of the turks things changed: towards the end, albanians were pretty much the deep in the games of the turks (just consider Egypt's independence) and also made a lot of abuses of power/culture - truth to be said. I think the neighbors are not willing to forgive easily these facts and we don't have much now to buy ourselves out.

    But I still believe it is just an anomaly that will pass within this century.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergin View Post
    But I still believe it is just an anomaly that will pass within this century.
    For sure. Of course, for example, you'll always find delusional diasporites who will dream of reclaiming 'lost territory'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LATGAL View Post
    For sure. Of course, for example, you'll always find delusional diasporites who will dream of reclaiming 'lost territory'.
    Yes, but the delusional word you are using is relative. It depends on from who's point of view you are seeing the issue.
    Also, in the end it doesn't matter if you think they are delusional or not. Because judging by the fact that the court in Hague accepted the Cham issue of northern greece as an actual Issue, just tells us that he west europeans are actually just as "delusional" as you say these albanian diasporites are ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Well, the route that Italy has taken with a lot of these situations is just give local minority groups a lot of autonomy and respect for their language. No need for violent conflict.

    Look at the Arbereshe: these Albanian migrants have been treated better in Italy than in the Balkans. Nobody cares if they speak Arbereshe or worship in a slightly different way.

    Actually, I wish some of the German speaking groups in far northern Italy would just secede already. They get way too much money. They won't, though; they get too many benefits in their situation. To think of all the lives lost to get those trifling pieces of land. I personally think it was all an abysmal waste of human life.

    If we were going to fight for something, and I don't at all think we should have, we should have fought for Nizza.
    Yea i have always admired how Italy can keep the situation so cool between all those etnicities. But the bond between Albanians/arbereshe and Southern Italians has always been strong.
    At one point i read that southern Italy was being invaded, and that King Alphonso of Naples asked Scanderbeg(who was busy fighting turks and serbs) if he could send his men to Italy and fight of a siege. Scanderbeg actually left all his battles, gathered his men, sailed to Italy, broke of the siege, and went back to kick the turks and serbs butts :)
    And when Scanderbeg got old and was no longer able to resist the turks, his family and a lot of other albanians were allowed to settle in the Kingdoms of Naples, as a kind of a thanks for good allyship and for breaking the siege :)
    I also think that is why Italians and arbereshe have never fought each other, because none of them are invaders, they agree that both have the right to be there :)
    Unfortunately it is not all countries that remember history like Italy does. As all the arvanites of greece actually moved there due to invitations, so they could protect the areas and castles of the plague-and-war-ridden greece of that time. But of course, when there is no need for warriors anymore, then the albanians are just treated like garbage..
    That is what i like about Italy: Even though you don't need the arbereshe for war anymore, you still keep them without complaining :) And you still treat them with respect

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    I guess what i am about to write is not off topic, as it actually touches the subject of future borders, but if people just comment it without actually watching the video, it can quickly turn into a whole city of off topic posts here.
    But anyway, i trust that people in here have the attention-skills and patience to watch a 1 hour video without problems. And if you don't have those skills, don't comment then :)

    I will explain quickly:
    The video is a lecture in history, lectured by Maria Eftimiu.
    Maria Eftimiu is a greek professor at The University of Athens. She is not a nobody, and she has actually won awards for being the best professor in Athens.
    She is very realistic, and she forgets no one. I will write some of the points of the videos.

    - She describes which greek cities and areas are actually albanian, and that most of the generals during the Greek war of Independence were actually albanian too, and they almost didn't know how to speak greek at the time.

    - She also points out how Kosovo and Macedonia is going to reunite with Albania soon.

    - She also mentions how there is a legal issue ongoing about the atrocitites commited against albanians in Greece 70 years ago.

    - She also mentions how 40% percent of Greece were in fact Albanians 200 years ago, but most have been assimilated by now.

    - She lists all greek surnames which have an albanian origin(so DIOMEDES and LATGAL, check if your surnames are listed ;) my surname was listed )

    - She points out how greece was almost empty due to wars and plague, so byzantines and venetians invited albanians to protect the greek citites.

    All in all, most of the thing you hear these albanians say here on the forum, will be said, just with authority!
    So LATGAL and DIOMEDES, if you do not believe you own "best professor" of your great ATHENS, then who do you believe my friends? :)

    I bet you don't even have the nerve to watch the lecture until the end, you are afraid your reality will crumble like a dry cracker. That is the world we live in, greeks afraid of watching greek lectures. The reality that you believe in, is supported by no one. Not even your fellow greek professors support your lies :-*
    Now watch the video and learn!! Dont yip yap!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVI6zw4jW3Y
    Last edited by Balkanite; 12-06-17 at 14:02.

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    ..something
    Last edited by Balkanite; 14-06-17 at 21:33.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balkanite View Post
    Various stuff
    Personally, I'm already aware of this video (and I didn't learn anything new that was far more accurately and adequately stated in other sources; it's particularly funny how her already wrong 40% becomes "40-60%" in your restatement though). In fact, an Albanian poster referred to it in another thread along with a few other things but our discussion was (fairly) removed since it was off-topic and I'm not interested in having the same conversation all over again, especially since I will no doubt have it again with another Albanian of certain ideological persuasion at some other point in the future. It gets boring too after a while.

    But you should keep your territorial delusions close to your heart, either way. Perhaps "Northern Epirus" will join Greece too in your alternate universe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LATGAL View Post
    Personally, I'm already aware of this video (and I didn't learn anything new that was far more accurately and adequately stated in other sources; it's particularly funny how her already wrong 40% becomes "40-60%" in your restatement though). In fact, an Albanian poster referred to it in another thread along with a few other things but our discussion was (fairly) removed since it was off-topic and I'm not interested in having the same conversation all over again, especially since I will no doubt have it again with another Albanian at some other point in the future.

    But you should keep your territorial delusions close to your heart, either way. Perhaps "Northern Epirus" will join Greece too in your alternate universe.
    Yes, i wrote 40-60% because i hadn't watched the video myself for a while. I just remembered that the proportions of Romi and Arvanite was 40/60.
    But now that you correct me, i will edit my first post. But anyway, the 40% kinda still underlines my point :)
    And these are not territorial delusions. I am a very objective, and i am just trying to point out that folks like you are very wrong, and that you are not even backed up by your own academics :)
    I like greeks. No. I actually love greeks, or else i wouldn't take a 6 year long faculty where we read about nothing but the ancients greeks and romans.
    I probably write and read ancient greek better than you :)
    But nevertheless, i do not wan't any small unschooled village boy to come here and ruin how i see greeks. I actually don't care that you don't want to learn.
    For me it is enough that your most acknowledged historian say the same things as me, and not the same things as you :)
    To me, that is an indication that the modern greek lies are dying out, and that eventually Greece will recognize the Cham issue, and that someday greeks and albanians can be brothers again.
    But there are a specific kind of greek individuals, and some albanians, who are just throwing fuel on the fire, instead of using that fuel constructively.
    The most important thing though, is that scholars like myself and Maria Eftimiu are constructing reality in the form of books and lecture. While people like you are just trying to promote hatred through diverse forums.
    Trust me, the scholars will win soon, because we have the Ethos that you lack :)

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    This whole post of yours is one big rambling delusion, my man. It's just more confirmation that not engaging your points was a good choice. Yes, you're very objective, an anti-nationalist who only ends up caring about the nationalism and the narratives of his neighbors etc. It's nothing new in the Balkans.

    Look in the mirror if you want to talk about 'fueling fires' btw.

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    I'm not quite sure I'm following the logic here. Is this just code for proposing a change of borders in accordance with hotly contested versions of medieval history?

    Honestly, from an outsider, I think your time would be better spent figuring out how to increase prosperity and quality of life for people no matter where they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LATGAL View Post
    This whole post of yours is one big rambling delusion, my man. It's just more confirmation that not engaging your points was a good choice. Yes, you're very objective, an anti-nationalist who only ends up caring about the nationalism and the narratives of his neighbors etc. It's nothing new in the Balkans.

    Look in the mirror if you want to talk about 'fueling fires' btw.
    Yes, lets say that, rambling delusion :)
    Who should i trust, you an anonymous nationalist, or Maria Eftimiu, a greek history professor who won one of the most prestigious academic award in Greece?
    She won the award for excellence in Academic teaching in 2013, that is 2 years after she made the above video lecture, my friend.
    So in other words, her view of reality got her an award. What has your view given you? Is there anyone who matters who is backing up your nationalistic motives in Greece right now?

    I thought so.

    Here is a description of the award.
    "Award for Excellence in Academic Teaching is given every year by the Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) starting in 1991. Vassilis Xanthopoulos and Stephanos Pnevmatikos, Professors at the University of Crete and members of FORTH, were murdered in the evening of November 27, 1990, at Heraklion while teaching an advanced seminar"

    Now let's stop this and get back on track. Become a politician if you wan't to force your outdated opinions upon other people.

    This started with someone asking if there were any possibilities for future border changes within Europe.
    And i kindly replied to him that there were several places where the possibilities are there. And one of those places happened to be northern greece and the cham issue. And i was only pointing out that it will be looked at in Hague during the next couple of years.
    So i was not taking sides, i was not suggesting anything, i was just pointing out a legit issue which can have an impact on borders(or at least relation between countries) sometime in the next 5-50 years.
    The reason that i showed this video was to show that it is not something i am making up. Even award winning GREEK academics are saying the same thing as me.
    I can also find the official website of the court of Hague and show you the unrestricted parts of the official documents if that is what you want.
    And if you don't like the facts, that an legal issue will be raised soon, then keep your eyes closed. But reality won't change anyway, you will still watch it happen on TV within your lifetime.

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    this a reward given to Physics and Mathematics,

    'Here is a description of the award.
    "Award for Excellence in Academic Teaching is given every year by the Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) starting in 1991. Vassilis Xanthopoulos and Stephanos Pnevmatikos, Professors at the University of Crete and members of FORTH, were murdered in the evening of November 27, 1990, at Heraklion while teaching an advanced seminar"'

    Ξανθοπουλος and rest were murdered and shot by an after diploma student,
    the murderer was found hanged on a tree,

    now in Greece also Ρεπουση took big awards,
    but where is she now?
    also Φιλλης.

    besides many rewards are given in Greece,
    and this reward you mention must have to do with Mathematics and Physics.
    or new methods of teaching, not with the scientific work, someone provide

    and the international reward is only for Gravity and relativity if remember correct.
    a friend of mine and also fellow student at high school (Λυκειον) pass from his hands
    and now she is abroad at USA at a reasearch center

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilis_C._Xanthopoulos

    anyway honored by that reward does mean honor to her work, neither to the this video

    Ρεπουση also has honors, but that does mean her views are accepted.

    Φιλης also has his


    WHAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND IS THE BELLOW.

    Karl Max was a good οικονομολογος (economics) but this does not mean he is correct
    Albert Einstein is considered genius, yet his stance against quantum (God does plays with cubes) can easily clasiffy him as idiot
    the Chicago economic school, etc etc have theories, but does not mean are correct.

    to end
    FALLAMEYER ALSO IS CONSIDERED UNIGUE.
    BUT GENETICS SHOW DIFFERENT THAN HIS CLAIMS

    so IN GREECE, WE HAVE DEMOCRACY, AND EVERYONE CAN SAY WHAT EVER HE LIKES.

    All the census of Greek state show clearly the numbers and population and areas of Arvanites.
    BESIDES IN GREECE IT IS NOT A SHAME TO BE AN ARVANITIS.
    but rather a cleronomical honor

    as it is in your country to say I am Greek Epirotis (do not tell me Ireland)
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  25. #25
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    They give several kinds of awards i think. But the one that Maria got is for excellence in academic teaching. In other words, she is such a good teacher, that she got an award for her teaching.

    She teaches history, not mathematics or physics.

    The award is just named after Vassilis Xanthopoulos and Stephanos Pnevmatikos, because they were murdered while lecturing in 1991. And they were physicians and mathematicians. But that has nothing to do with the fact that Maria Eftimiou won an award for academic teaching(within her field, history, of course)

    Now just because Alfred Nobel was a chemist doesn't mean that they don't give Nobel prices in literature or other disciplines than chemistry

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