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Thread: Y-chromosomal analysis of Greek Cypriots

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Since I'm sure you're addressing me, I'll just point out that I've never criticized your collections of data. The interpretation of that data is where we sometimes differ. I don't know why that should be a problem. There's no point in debating in an echo chamber. Then nobody learns anything.

    I'd be very interested to see the remaining data, as I'm sure would our other members.
    It is not only you, I am going to post them all now.

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    4 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    I manually Nevgen Predicted all the Turkish Cypriot J2 from this study and there is 83:

    The Breakdown according to the Nevgen Predictor:

    1. J2a1-Z7700: 16 (J-F3133 on Yfull)
    2. J2a1-M319: 11
    3. J2a1-Z500: 11 (would be interesting to see how many are M92)
    4. J2a1-PF5191: 11
    5. J2a1-Z387: 7 (I think the breakdown would be interesting)
    6. J2a1-Z6065: 6
    7. J2a1-L210: 5
    8. J2b-M205: 5
    9. J2b-M241: 3 (All most likely under L283)
    10. J2a2-PF5008: 3
    11. J2a1-PF7431: 3
    12. J2a1-S25258:1
    13. J2a1-Z7671: 1

    For Greek Cypriot J2 there was 102 samples, I nevgen predicted all of them as well.

    Here is the Breakdown:

    1. J2b-M205: 16
    2. J2a1-Z387: 14
    3. J2a1-M319: 13
    4. J2a1-Z500: 12
    5. J2a1-Z7700: 10 (J-F3133 on Yfull)
    6. J2a1-PF5191: 7
    7. J2a1-S25258: 7
    8. J2a2-PF5008: 7
    9. J2a1-L210: 6
    10. J2b-M241: 4
    11. J2a1-Z7671: 3
    12. J2a1-Z6065: 3

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    4 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    For the Breakdown of J1 based on Nevgen predictors.

    For Turkish Cypriots, the number is 37

    1. J1-P58: 26
    2. J1-Z1828: 9
    3. J1-PF7263: 1
    4. J1-PF7257: 1

    For the Greek Cypriots, the number is 31

    1. J1-P58: 28
    2. J1-Z1828: 2
    3. J1-PF7263: 1

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    For the Breakdown of Haplogroups T and L, based on Nevgen Predictors.

    Turkish Cypriots had more T and L than Greek Cypriots, in fact almost 3x more T.

    Greek Cypriot T, number is 5

    1. T-L208: 4
    2. T-Y11151: 1

    Turkish Cypriot T, the number is 14

    1. T-L208: 12
    2. T-L131: 2

    For Greek Cypriot L, the number is 4

    1. L-L595: 2
    2. L-M317: 2

    For Turkish Cypriot L, the number is 6

    1. L-M317: 3
    2. L-M27: 2
    3. L-M357: 1

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    For Turkish Cypriot E, the number is 86 and all are manually nevgen predicted

    1. E-V13>Z5017: 26
    2. E-M84: 18
    3. E-V22: 12
    4. E-V12>CTS693: 7
    5. E-L791: 7
    6. E-M81: 6
    7. E-V12>V32: 4
    8. E-V13>S7461: 3
    9. E-V65: 1
    10. E-M4225: 1 (E1b1a)
    11. E-Y1623 : 1 (E1b1a)

    For Greek Cypriot E, the number is 99

    1. E-M84: 46
    2. E-V13>Z5017>Z17264: 20
    3. E-V22: 9
    4. E-V13>S7461: 8
    5. E-V13>Z5018>Y3183: 6
    6. E-L791: 5
    7. E-Z830: 3
    8. E-M123 (xM34): 1
    9. E-V12>CTS693: 1

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    For the Breakdown of G

    As you see amongst Turkish Cypriots because of less markers the predictors are more broad than Greek Cypriots.

    For Turkish Cypriot G, the number is 53

    1. G-M406: 14
    2. G-L497: 13
    3. G-PF3147: 10
    4. G-U1: 5
    5. G-M342: 5 (G1)
    6. G-Z274: 4
    7. G-L293: 2

    For Greek Cypriot G, the number is 44

    1. G-U1: 8
    2. G-L497>CTS4803: 7
    3. G-PF3147: 7
    4. G-L293: 4
    5. G-PF3359: 4 (Not found in Turkish Cypriots)
    6. G-Z274: 4
    7. G-M406>Z17887: 3
    8. G-M406>L14: 3
    9. G-M406>M3302: 2
    10. G-M342: 1 (G1)
    11. G-L497>L43

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    For Haplogroup I2 breakdown, it is much higher in Turkish Cypriots than Greek Cypriots.

    For Turkish Cypriot I2, the number is 26

    1. I-P37: 18
    2. I-L596: 4 (I2c)
    3. I-M223: 4

    For Greek Cypriot I2, the number is 9

    1. I-P37: 6
    2. I-L596: 2 (I2c)
    3. I-M223: 1

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    For R1b and R1a, like I said at Anthrogenica the nevgen calculator does not give a detailed report, so I looked at modal and ftdna to manually compare.

    For R1a all of the Greek Cypriot R1a was under R1a-Z280>CTS1211 and in Turkish Cypriots it was all of them under the same subclade except one who was R1a-Z93.

    For the R1b

    In Turkish Cypriots

    1. R1b-Z2103: 19
    2. R1b-V88: 7

    In Greek Cypriots

    1. R1b-Z2103: 31
    2. R1b-V88: 10

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    I manually Nevgen Predicted all the Turkish Cypriot J2 from this study and there is 83:

    The Breakdown according to the Nevgen Predictor:

    1. J2a1-Z7700: 16 (J-F3133 on Yfull)
    2. J2a1-M319: 11
    3. J2a1-Z500: 11 (would be interesting to see how many are M92)
    4. J2a1-PF5191: 11
    5. J2a1-Z387: 7 (I think the breakdown would be interesting)
    6. J2a1-Z6065: 6
    7. J2a1-L210: 5
    8. J2b-M205: 5
    9. J2b-M241: 3 (All most likely under L283)
    10. J2a2-PF5008: 3
    11. J2a1-PF7431: 3
    12. J2a1-S25258:1
    13. J2a1-Z7671: 1

    For Greek Cypriot J2 there was 102 samples, I nevgen predicted all of them as well.

    Here is the Breakdown:

    1. J2b-M205: 16
    2. J2a1-Z387: 14
    3. J2a1-M319: 13
    4. J2a1-Z500: 12
    5. J2a1-Z7700: 10 (J-F3133 on Yfull)
    6. J2a1-PF5191: 7
    7. J2a1-S25258: 7
    8. J2a2-PF5008: 7
    9. J2a1-L210: 6
    10. J2b-M241: 4
    11. J2a1-Z7671: 3
    12. J2a1-Z6065: 3
    Interesting:

    J2b-M205 is much higher in Greek Cypriots than in Turkish Cypriots even taking into account the larger number of Greek Cypriot results, yes? (16 versus 5) In fact it's the yline with the highest frequency in Greek Cypriots.

    From the pie chart, there's very little J2b in Turkey, so I think that's pretty significant.

    J2a1-Z387 is also more frequent in Greek Cypriots. (14 to 7)

    Z7700 is quite a bit higher in Turkish Cypriots than in Greek Cypriots even though there are fewer Turkish Cypriot samples (16 to 10). The same for PF 5191 (11 to 7).

    Do we have an age range for these above? Do we know where they're most frequent.

    M319 is about the same.

    Z500 is about the same.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    For the Breakdown of J1 based on Nevgen predictors.

    For Turkish Cypriots, the number is 37

    1. J1-P58: 26
    2. J1-Z1828: 9
    3. J1-PF7263: 1
    4. J1-PF7257: 1

    For the Greek Cypriots, the number is 31

    1. J1-P58: 28
    2. J1-Z1828: 2
    3. J1-PF7263: 1
    I think it's a draw, yes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    For the Breakdown of Haplogroups T and L, based on Nevgen Predictors.

    Turkish Cypriots had more T and L than Greek Cypriots, in fact almost 3x more T.

    Greek Cypriot T, number is 5

    1. T-L208: 4
    2. T-Y11151: 1

    Turkish Cypriot T, the number is 14

    1. T-L208: 12
    2. T-L131: 2

    For Greek Cypriot L, the number is 4

    1. L-L595: 2
    2. L-M317: 2

    For Turkish Cypriot L, the number is 6

    1. L-M317: 3
    2. L-M27: 2
    3. L-M357: 1
    Why would Turkish Cypriots have 3X more T? I would have guessed T was Neolithic or at least Bronze Age, so why would Greek Cypriots have so much less?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    For Turkish Cypriot E, the number is 86 and all are manually nevgen predicted

    1. E-V13>Z5017: 26
    2. E-M84: 18
    3. E-V22: 12
    4. E-V12>CTS693: 7
    5. E-L791: 7
    6. E-M81: 6
    7. E-V12>V32: 4
    8. E-V13>S7461: 3
    9. E-V65: 1
    10. E-M4225: 1 (E1b1a)
    11. E-Y1623 : 1 (E1b1a)

    For Greek Cypriot E, the number is 99

    1. E-M84: 46
    2. E-V13>Z5017>Z17264: 20
    3. E-V22: 9
    4. E-V13>S7461: 8
    5. E-V13>Z5018>Y3183: 6
    6. E-L791: 5
    7. E-Z830: 3
    8. E-M123 (xM34): 1
    9. E-V12>CTS693: 1
    Interesting: E-V13 and E-M84 are the most frequent in both, but GC has way more E-M84 (46 to 18). So, if we're positing some actual gene flow from the Turks into Cyprus E-M84 was not a significant factor in that flow. It was probably there earlier, yes?

    If you add up the E-V13, it seems about equal. E-V22 is roughly the same, and then you get into smaller percentages that could just be sampling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    For the Breakdown of G

    As you see amongst Turkish Cypriots because of less markers the predictors are more broad than Greek Cypriots.

    For Turkish Cypriot G, the number is 53

    1. G-M406: 14
    2. G-L497: 13
    3. G-PF3147: 10
    4. G-U1: 5
    5. G-M342: 5 (G1)
    6. G-Z274: 4
    7. G-L293: 2

    For Greek Cypriot G, the number is 44

    1. G-U1: 8
    2. G-L497>CTS4803: 7
    3. G-PF3147: 7
    4. G-L293: 4
    5. G-PF3359: 4 (Not found in Turkish Cypriots)
    6. G-Z274: 4
    7. G-M406>Z17887: 3
    8. G-M406>L14: 3
    9. G-M406>M3302: 2
    10. G-M342: 1 (G1)
    11. G-L497>L43
    We have a bit of a difference here.

    M406:
    TC (14)
    GC (8)

    L497 is also higher in TC:
    TC (13)
    GC (8)

    and PF3187:
    TC (10)
    GC (7)

    Again, do we have dates, frequency for these?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    For Haplogroup I2 breakdown, it is much higher in Turkish Cypriots than Greek Cypriots.

    For Turkish Cypriot I2, the number is 26

    1. I-P37: 18
    2. I-L596: 4 (I2c)
    3. I-M223: 4

    For Greek Cypriot I2, the number is 9

    1. I-P37: 6
    2. I-L596: 2 (I2c)
    3. I-M223: 1
    Well, that's a bit of a surprise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    For R1b and R1a, like I said at Anthrogenica the nevgen calculator does not give a detailed report, so I looked at modal and ftdna to manually compare.

    For R1a all of the Greek Cypriot R1a was under R1a-Z280>CTS1211 and in Turkish Cypriots it was all of them under the same subclade except one who was R1a-Z93.

    For the R1b

    In Turkish Cypriots

    1. R1b-Z2103: 19
    2. R1b-V88: 7

    In Greek Cypriots

    1. R1b-Z2103: 31
    2. R1b-V88: 10
    So, I guess we could say not really "western" R1b. It's the Yamnaya clade. It's also found in southern Italy*.

    As for the R1a, no Z93, which I had thought we'd find.

    Where is the total R1a for the two groups?

    I hate to ask this after all the work that you did, but you're sure it's M558?

    If it is, it's recent in the area and came from Greece, along with E-V13 probably.

    The R1b came either from the Balkans/Greece or from Anatolia.

    If the R1a in Greece is similar, my money is now on R1b Z2103 for the Mycenaean signature.

    The only result I truly don't get is the I2a being so high in the Turkish Cypriots versus the Greek Cypriots. Well, maybe the T and some of the G2a as well.

    Thanks for all the work Azzurro. Very interesting.

    Ed. * along with western R1b, which is not found in Cyprus if this is correct.
    Last edited by Angela; 21-06-17 at 05:41.

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    So similar

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    oh boy too many M406

    I like that,
    I am one
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    So, I guess we could say not really "western" R1b. It's the Yamnaya clade. It's also what's found in southern Italy.

    As for the R1a, no Z93, which I had thought we'd find.

    Where is the total R1a for the two groups?

    I hate to ask this after all the work that you did, but you're sure it's M558?

    If it is, it's recent in the area and came from Greece, along with E-V13 probably.

    The R1b came either from the Balkans/Greece or from Anatolia.

    If the R1a in Greece is similar, my money is now on R1b Z2103 for the Mycenaean signature.

    The only result I truly don't get is the I2a being so high in the Turkish Cypriots versus the Greek Cypriots. Well, maybe the T and some of the G2a as well.

    Thanks for all the work Azzurro. Very interesting.
    My pleasure Angela, when the haplogroups are broken down with the nevgen predictor its very useful and a lot can be learnt from this paper.

    Just to say one side little point, I had found through the nevgen predictor 3 E-Y6923 which have not been found outside Ashkenazi Jews except a Puerto Rican of who is very probably of direct converso paternal descent.

    I want to add that I too was very surprised that R1a-Z93 was not found and that I2 and T were much higher in Turkish Cypriots but if you look at the results they are almost the same as I-P37 and T-L208 are the dominant subclades, this could actually be due where they got the samples. I am the least confident in the R1a results, there is 10 R1a amongst the Greek Cypriots and 13 amongst Turkish Cypriots, I think I should re-look at the R1a, even with R1b like R1a those were the only too that I manually started checking and thats the results I came up with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    We have a bit of a difference here.

    M406:
    TC (14)
    GC (8)

    L497 is also higher in TC:
    TC (13)
    GC (8)

    and PF3187:
    TC (10)
    GC (7)

    Again, do we have dates, frequency for these?
    G-PF3147 is the Neolithic farmer marker, I don't know the frequency of it, G-L497 is definitely a Balkan-Central Euro marker, I know it peaks in Serbia, I would think G-L497 was brought in by the Greeks. G-M406 it always depends the subclade through the Greek Cypriot samples we see L14, M3302 and Z17887, G-M406 follows J2a and is found usually where J2a appears, G-M406 could be Greek, could be Levantine, could be Anatolian, thats why deep subclades would be good for G-M406, it is a great candidate for the potential Kura-Araxes Expansion. There is also interesting finds there too with G-Z724, G-L293 (Z6653 on Yfull), G1 is found in both and also G-U1 seeing that it is the most common G for Greek Cypriots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Interesting: E-V13 and E-M84 are the most frequent in both, but GC has way more E-M84 (46 to 18). So, if we're positing some actual gene flow from the Turks into Cyprus E-M84 was not a significant factor in that flow. It was probably there earlier, yes?

    If you add up the E-V13, it seems about equal. E-V22 is roughly the same, and then you get into smaller percentages that could just be sampling.
    I think that E-M84 along with E-L791 and E-Z830 were in Cyprus since the Neolithic, E-M123 peaks in the Levant and E was found to be the main Natufian male lineage. E-V13 in Cyprus is in my opinion with 99% certainty Greek, what is great is that 3 specific E-V13 lineages were found (predicted) that is Z5017 as it is dominant in both Greek and Turkish Cypriots, there is even trace of S7461 which looks more like an Alpine E-V13 but who knows? There is also the Z5018>Y3183 from E-V13 in smaller numbers. What is interesting is that Turkish Cypriots have additional E subclades which are North African and African E lines like E-M81, E-V65, E-V32(V68), E-M4225 and E-Y1623.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergin View Post
    So similar

    Yes, I think so too. Religion is the major division. It's the same for the Bosnians and for the Northern Irish, although perhaps they have a little bit more difference.

    So sad, really. Brother against brother literally almost, or at least first and second cousins.

    Well, if it's not different genetics, and if not genetics religion, and if not either politics will do, I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Interesting:

    J2b-M205 is much higher in Greek Cypriots than in Turkish Cypriots even taking into account the larger number of Greek Cypriot results, yes? (16 versus 5) In fact it's the yline with the highest frequency in Greek Cypriots.

    From the pie chart, there's very little J2b in Turkey, so I think that's pretty significant.

    J2a1-Z387 is also more frequent in Greek Cypriots. (14 to 7)

    Z7700 is quite a bit higher in Turkish Cypriots than in Greek Cypriots even though there are fewer Turkish Cypriot samples (16 to 10). The same for PF 5191 (11 to 7).

    Do we have an age range for these above? Do we know where they're most frequent.

    M319 is about the same.

    Z500 is about the same.
    J2b-M205 was found in 4 ancient results, Bronze Age Jordan, Roman Gladiator, Sidon Bronze Age and Egypt, this line came with the Iran Chal expansion, its probably been in Cyprus since Early Bronze Age.

    J2a1-Z387 is the grandfather clade of J2a-Z435>L70 and J2a-FGC35461, this will need even deeper analysis to see how many of the samples belong to which of the two.

    J2a1-Z7700 (J-F3133) has many branches, its possible that Turkish Cypriots have an additional Z7700 lineage that the Greek Cypriots don't have making much more frequent, J2a1-PF5191 can just be due sampling, Z7700 is much more significant in Turkish Cypriots it makes 20% of J2. Also J2a1-Z6065 decreases in half.

    The problem with J-Z500 yes it does stay the same but there is many subclades under it like M92, Z515 and PF7412, J2a1-Z500 needs a more detailed look.

    J2a-M319, J2a-L210 and J2b-M241 stay at the same frequency.

    In the Greek Cypriot samples J2a-Z7671 increase from 1 to 3, J2a-S25258 increase from 1 to 7, and J2a2-PF5008 increases from 3 to 7.

    Also Turkish Cypriots have an additional J2a1 that is unique to them PF7431.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Why would Turkish Cypriots have 3X more T? I would have guessed T was Neolithic or at least Bronze Age, so why would Greek Cypriots have so much less?
    Because T originates between Armenia and the Pamir mountains of Himalayas . Armenians, Azeri, Tajiks, Kurds and kazaks have the oldest SNP , while east-africa and Arabia the youngest SNP according to Yfull
    Father's Mtdna H95a1
    Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
    Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
    GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
    Mother's YDna R1a-Z282

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    For the Breakdown of Haplogroups T and L, based on Nevgen Predictors.

    Turkish Cypriots had more T and L than Greek Cypriots, in fact almost 3x more T.

    Greek Cypriot T, number is 5

    1. T-L208: 4
    2. T-Y11151: 1

    Turkish Cypriot T, the number is 14

    1. T-L208: 12
    2. T-L131: 2

    For Greek Cypriot L, the number is 4

    1. L-L595: 2
    2. L-M317: 2

    For Turkish Cypriot L, the number is 6

    1. L-M317: 3
    2. L-M27: 2
    3. L-M357: 1
    As I stated on the other site


    T-L208 = T1a1 group x 16
    T-L131 = T1a2 group x 2
    T-Y11151 = can be either group
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    The story of Cyprus is a big story
    that starts from copper era,

    Near Easterners,
    Aigyptians
    Mycenians
    Makedonians
    Romans,
    Arabs
    Crusaders
    Ottomans
    British

    2known groups are
    the Maronites
    the Armenians

    maybe I forget something

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