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Thread: Y-chromosomal analysis of Greek Cypriots

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    The story of Cyprus is a big story
    that starts from copper era,

    Near Easterners,
    Aigyptians
    Mycenians
    Makedonians
    Romans,
    Arabs
    Crusaders
    Ottomans
    British

    2known groups are
    the Maronites
    the Armenians

    maybe I forget something
    Thats why they have many Haplogroups and Subclades, Yetos did you test further than G-M406? There was 3 deeper subclades of G-M406.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Thanks for your efforts, Azzurro. This study on Cyrpus is turning out to be one of the most interesting this year thanks to you! I'd say I am learning more from this deep clade analysis than from some ancient DNA studies published this year. Here are a few comments.

    R1b-V88 is well represented in both GC (2.9%) and TC (1.8%). It would be interesting to see percentages in various parts of Greece and Turkey too. But at present I would think it came directly from the Levant to Cyprus, at any time between the Neolithic and Iron Age (it's not necessarily the result of a single migration).

    It's good to know that Cypriots have no R1b-U152. This confirms my suspicion that it came with the Romans to Greece. The authors of the study mention that, although Cypriots are very close to Calabrians, the latter have considerably more R1b, as if there has been an influx of populations high in R1b, which affected South Italy much more than Cyprus. Indeed that is the case, and that population was certainly the Romans. Greek Cypriots may be a good proxy for the ancient Achaean Greek population prior to the Roman expansion. That also means that R1b-Z2103 was present among ancient Greeks, and it is not of Roman, Ottoman or other origin. My theory has always been that the Mycenaeans brought a mix of R1b-Z2103 and R1a straight from the Steppe around 1600 BCE, based on archaeological similarities between the two regions at the time. I recently added G2a-U1 and J2b2a-L283 to the mix. E-V13 might also have been present among Mycenaeans, although this is less clear.

    If R1a was present among Mycenaeans, it might have been the R1a-CTS1211 found in GC and TC. Since the Mycenaeans descended from a population that emerged during the Catacomb (R1b-Z2103) and Srubna (R1a-Z280) transition, it might well have included CTS1211. But then why is it present among Turkish Cypriots too? Another possibility is that R1a-CTS1211 came with the Slavic migration, as has been claimed again and again in the case of Greece and the whole Balkans. But AFAIK the Slavs never reached Cyprus nor Turkey. A third possibility is that it was the Goths who brought R1a-CTS1211 to Greece and Turkey. Unfortunately there is no I1 nor R1b-U106, and the few I2a2a (M223) samples could easily have come from the Mycenaeans as I2a2a-L699 was present in Yamna. If the I2a-P37 turns out to be CTS10228, then we would have discovered through genetics that the Slavs did go much further than known from historical sources, but it's doubtful. If it's an older type of I2a, then it could be of Neolithic or Bronze Age origin, as there is after all 4% of I2a in Turkey, against 5.5% for TC and 3% for GC. Not a big difference. Nevertheless we still don't know exactly how all that I2a got to Turkey either.


    Kura-Araxes lineages

    Cyprus is a great place to study Kura-Araxian lineages as this culture supposedly expanded from Armenia and eastern Turkey to the Levant, then by sea to Cyprus, Crete and the Aegean to found the Minoan civilisation. Here are all the lineages that Azzurro and I believe to be linked to that culture.

    Haplogroup Greek Cypriots GC percentage Turkish Cypriots TC percentage
    G2a-L293 4 2
    G2a-M406 8 14
    J1-Z1828 (actually Z1842) 2 9
    J2a1-Z6065 3 6
    J2a1-M67 27 18
    J2a1-M319 13 11
    L1 (M317 and M27) 2 5
    T1a1a-L208 (actually P77) 4 12
    TOTAL 63 18.3% 77 20.3%


    E-M34 (M84 + L791), J2a2 and J2b1 might also be linked to Kura-Araxes, although that might be specific clades only, as they did spread during the Iranian Chalcolithic phase too. In that case we could add 33 samples (8.7%) for Turkish Cypriots and 74 samples (21.5%) for Greek Cypriots. It is odd that the GC should have so much more J2a2, J2b1 and E-M84 that the TC, but the sample size is small, and there are also big differences for other haplogroups linked to Kura-Araxes. The deeper we dig into the phylogeny, the smaller the number of samples and the bigger the differences between two sampled populations.
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    Slavs did go much further into Greece and Asia Minor, from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sclaveni

    These Slavic settlements (area, territory) were initially out of Byzantine control and independent.[citation needed] By 800, however, the term also referred specifically to Slavic mobile military colonists who settled as allies within the territories of the Byzantine Empire. Slavic military settlements appeared in the Peloponnese, Asia Minor, and Italy.
    Constans II conquered Sklavinia in 657–658, "capturing many and subduing", and settled captured Slavs in Asia Minor; in 664–65, 5,000 of these joined Abdulreman ibn Khalid.
    Justinian II (r. 685–695) settled as many as 30,000 Slavs from Thrace in Asia Minor, in an attempt to boost military strength. Most of them however, with their leader Neboulos, deserted to the Arabs at the Battle of Sebastopolis in 692.[29]

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by IronSide View Post

    Exactly so. I had forgotten about this. Migrations in Western Eurasia didn't just go east to west; they sometimes went northwest to southeast.

    Is R1a-CTS1211 even old enough to be Mycenaean?

    If the I2a is I2a-Din, then it could have come along with it as part of these Slavic resettlements. If it's an older clade, I agree with Maciamo that it could be descended from a Neolithic clade in the area, couldn't it? That wouldn't be a surprise either, since I2a was there in the Neolithic.

    This is why it will be great when we get the ancient dna. It will clear a lot of this up.

    As for some of the "E" clades, I think we have to wait and see. With so much "E" in the Natufian and Levant Neolithic it could have been in Cyprus from a very early time. The E-V13 definitely comes from the mainland though.

    I think we also have to keep in mind that as interesting as this all is, the NevGen calculator isn't necessarily as exact as actual snp analysis of these samples.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Exactly so. I had forgotten about this. Migrations in Western Eurasia didn't just go east to west; they sometimes went northwest to southeast.

    Is R1a-CTS1211 even old enough to be Mycenaean?

    If the I2a is I2a-Din, then it could have come along with it as part of these Slavic resettlements. If it's an older clade, I agree with Maciamo that it could be descended from a Neolithic clade in the area, couldn't it? That wouldn't be a surprise either, since I2a was there in the Neolithic.

    This is why it will be great when we get the ancient dna. It will clear a lot of this up.

    As for some of the "E" clades, I think we have to wait and see. With so much "E" in the Natufian and Levant Neolithic it could have been in Cyprus from a very early time. The E-V13 definitely comes from the mainland though.

    I think we also have to keep in mind that as interesting as this all is, the NevGen calculator isn't necessarily as exact as actual snp analysis of these samples.
    R1a-CTS1211 is between 4800 --- 3900 YBP https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-CTS1211/

    It's age is suitable, but most subclades have more northern distribution, if there was a Mycenaean clade downstream of CTS1211 then it should be at least older than 3600 YBP (because Mycenaeans can't appear after the Mycenaean kingdom :) ) and it should have a clear Balkanic and Mediterranean distribution, because of Greek colonies.

    And I agree, E-V13 comes from the mainland, because that's where we find the diversity of it's top subclades.
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V13/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    Thats why they have many Haplogroups and Subclades, Yetos did you test further than G-M406? There was 3 deeper subclades of G-M406.

    my test was ''gift'',
    full DNA map, thousands genes before years, most of known that time,

    the full results are in AUTh Medical school, D reasearch clinic of Ippokrateion Hospital
    i do not think they did deeper search,
    they mainly wanted mthfr HBO etc and many other for my blood circulation problem,
    they cross it with another one, who had same problem
    it is hard to comunicate with them,
    and the chief proffesor now is retired, (fantastic man)
    the last time they call and I 've seen my file (1 huge book) was 2014.
    Last edited by Yetos; 23-06-17 at 00:33.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    my test was ''gift'',
    full DNA map, thousands genes before years, most of known that time,

    the full results are in AUTh Medical school, D reasearch clinic of Ippokrateion Hospital
    i do not think they did deeper search,
    they mainly wanted mthfr HBO etc and many other for my blood circulation problem,
    they cross it with another one, who had same problem
    it is hard to comunicate with them,
    and the chief proffesor now is retired, (fantastic man)
    the last time they call and I 've seen my file (1 huge book) was 2014.
    Well thanks for sharing that story, in deed a nice one :) Your subclade at least at the M406 which Yfull gives it a TMRCA of 8600 ybp or 6600 BC matches the spread of J2a along the Mediterranean and are always found together whether in Italy, Greece or Middle East.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Thanks for your efforts, Azzurro. This study on Cyrpus is turning out to be one of the most interesting this year thanks to you! I'd say I am learning more from this deep clade analysis than from some ancient DNA studies published this year. Here are a few comments.

    R1b-V88 is well represented in both GC (2.9%) and TC (1.8%). It would be interesting to see percentages in various parts of Greece and Turkey too. But at present I would think it came directly from the Levant to Cyprus, at any time between the Neolithic and Iron Age (it's not necessarily the result of a single migration).

    It's good to know that Cypriots have no R1b-U152. This confirms my suspicion that it came with the Romans to Greece. The authors of the study mention that, although Cypriots are very close to Calabrians, the latter have considerably more R1b, as if there has been an influx of populations high in R1b, which affected South Italy much more than Cyprus. Indeed that is the case, and that population was certainly the Romans. Greek Cypriots may be a good proxy for the ancient Achaean Greek population prior to the Roman expansion. That also means that R1b-Z2103 was present among ancient Greeks, and it is not of Roman, Ottoman or other origin. My theory has always been that the Mycenaeans brought a mix of R1b-Z2103 and R1a straight from the Steppe around 1600 BCE, based on archaeological similarities between the two regions at the time. I recently added G2a-U1 and J2b2a-L283 to the mix. E-V13 might also have been present among Mycenaeans, although this is less clear.

    If R1a was present among Mycenaeans, it might have been the R1a-CTS1211 found in GC and TC. Since the Mycenaeans descended from a population that emerged during the Catacomb (R1b-Z2103) and Srubna (R1a-Z280) transition, it might well have included CTS1211. But then why is it present among Turkish Cypriots too? Another possibility is that R1a-CTS1211 came with the Slavic migration, as has been claimed again and again in the case of Greece and the whole Balkans. But AFAIK the Slavs never reached Cyprus nor Turkey. A third possibility is that it was the Goths who brought R1a-CTS1211 to Greece and Turkey. Unfortunately there is no I1 nor R1b-U106, and the few I2a2a (M223) samples could easily have come from the Mycenaeans as I2a2a-L699 was present in Yamna. If the I2a-P37 turns out to be CTS10228, then we would have discovered through genetics that the Slavs did go much further than known from historical sources, but it's doubtful. If it's an older type of I2a, then it could be of Neolithic or Bronze Age origin, as there is after all 4% of I2a in Turkey, against 5.5% for TC and 3% for GC. Not a big difference. Nevertheless we still don't know exactly how all that I2a got to Turkey either.


    Kura-Araxes lineages

    Cyprus is a great place to study Kura-Araxian lineages as this culture supposedly expanded from Armenia and eastern Turkey to the Levant, then by sea to Cyprus, Crete and the Aegean to found the Minoan civilisation. Here are all the lineages that Azzurro and I believe to be linked to that culture.

    Haplogroup Greek Cypriots GC percentage Turkish Cypriots TC percentage
    G2a-L293 4 2
    G2a-M406 8 14
    J1-Z1828 (actually Z1842) 2 9
    J2a1-Z6065 3 6
    J2a1-M67 27 18
    J2a1-M319 13 11
    L1 (M317 and M27) 2 5
    T1a1a-L208 (actually P77) 4 12
    TOTAL 63 18.3% 77 20.3%


    E-M34 (M84 + L791), J2a2 and J2b1 might also be linked to Kura-Araxes, although that might be specific clades only, as they did spread during the Iranian Chalcolithic phase too. In that case we could add 33 samples (8.7%) for Turkish Cypriots and 74 samples (21.5%) for Greek Cypriots. It is odd that the GC should have so much more J2a2, J2b1 and E-M84 that the TC, but the sample size is small, and there are also big differences for other haplogroups linked to Kura-Araxes. The deeper we dig into the phylogeny, the smaller the number of samples and the bigger the differences between two sampled populations.
    It is my pleasure, I put a lot of work into it. Your analysis as usual is great.

    I have done some reading on the history of Cyprus that might explain R1a-CTS1211 and possibly G-L497 as they mostly belong to the CTS4803 branch which is most common in Western Europe and Sweden. There was also minor I1 but I did not post it. Going back to the possible explanation, in Cyprus there was Lusignan warriors that were settled they formed a couple of towns, if we look at the history of the house of Lusignan they came from an area in France next to Poitiers, this area was conquered by the Visigoths, is it possible that these lineages are in fact representive of the Visigoths? For I-P37 I think there was a Greek branch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    Well thanks for sharing that story, in deed a nice one :) Your subclade at least at the M406 which Yfull gives it a TMRCA of 8600 ybp or 6600 BC matches the spread of J2a along the Mediterranean and are always found together whether in Italy, Greece or Middle East.

    most of Greeks are G M201, especially in the anatolian ones, and Turks also
    seems like around Kappadokia and Pontus and wider North Turkey a corridor has more M 201
    and west and south a south corridor has M406
    Italy has more M 406 I know than some parts of Greece or Turkey
    and I am surprised with Cyprus

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    most of Greeks are G M201, especially in the anatolian ones, and Turks also
    seems like around Kappadokia and Pontus and wider North Turkey a corridor has more M 201
    and west and south a south corridor has M406
    Italy has more M 406 I know than some parts of Greece or Turkey
    and I am surprised with Cyprus
    The best explanation would be the Kura-Araxes expansion, you also find G-M406 in Kurds and Levantine populations, there is also a Jewish G-M406 line.

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    I think is fairly safe to conclude that almost every haplogroup of the T/C that exists also in G/C populations has its origins in a Greek ancestor.Why not the other way around? It has to do how Islamic societies operated. Conversions were on way road, same with intermarriages, slavery etc.
    Why then the small differences in ratios? One possible explanation is this:
    It has to do with the geographic origins of TC , and the genetic profile of those regions.
    There hasn't been a uniformed conversion rate, and since TC disproportionally come from those regions they acquired a genetic profile between to that of those regions and that of the averages of Cypriots.

    For example the northwest coastal area of Cyprus, with higher than the average Muslim population, has been speculated that it was settled with byzantine soldiers from Eperus illyria during the early middle ages, which would explain the higher I2 prevalence for TC, similar to the non Muslim local population.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    I manually Nevgen Predicted all the Turkish Cypriot J2 from this study and there is 83:

    The Breakdown according to the Nevgen Predictor:

    1. J2a1-Z7700: 16 (J-F3133 on Yfull)
    2. J2a1-M319: 11
    3. J2a1-Z500: 11 (would be interesting to see how many are M92)
    4. J2a1-PF5191: 11
    5. J2a1-Z387: 7 (I think the breakdown would be interesting)
    6. J2a1-Z6065: 6
    7. J2a1-L210: 5
    8. J2b-M205: 5
    9. J2b-M241: 3 (All most likely under L283)
    10. J2a2-PF5008: 3
    11. J2a1-PF7431: 3
    12. J2a1-S25258:1
    13. J2a1-Z7671: 1

    For Greek Cypriot J2 there was 102 samples, I nevgen predicted all of them as well.

    Here is the Breakdown:

    1. J2b-M205: 16
    2. J2a1-Z387: 14
    3. J2a1-M319: 13
    4. J2a1-Z500: 12
    5. J2a1-Z7700: 10 (J-F3133 on Yfull)
    6. J2a1-PF5191: 7
    7. J2a1-S25258: 7
    8. J2a2-PF5008: 7
    9. J2a1-L210: 6
    10. J2b-M241: 4
    11. J2a1-Z7671: 3
    12. J2a1-Z6065: 3
    How many of those are under J2a-L26?

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    Hello! Could someone help clarify something for me?

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    Y-chromosome phylogeographic analysis of the Greek-Cypriot population reveals elements consistent with Neolithic and Bronze Age settlements by Konstantinos Voskarides.

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    Mr Voskarides has a table #2 there that states 66% Anatolian dna and 24% Levantine dna and only 13% Greek dn. I cannot see how he comes up with those percents from the numbers he shows anywhere in the article. Can anyone here help clarify this for me? Thanks, Pericles.

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    This question is important because even Heraclides repeats those numbers in his work in 2017.

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    To make such an important statement as that, Voskarides should have specifically clarified which haplogroups he was interpreting as non-Greek. if I've missed something could someone point out what I missed please.

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    My own calculations, based on Voskarides charts and information, show roughly 50% Anatolian, 20% Levant (mainly Phoenician), and 30% Greek (not 13%).

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    It appears that there were three main Phoenician settlements in Cyprus in the 5th century BC, Kition (modern Larnica), Lapithos and Kyrenia.

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    During the fight with the Antigonids the army of Ptolemy ruthlessly destroyed the three Phoenician cities and enslaved their populations.

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    Voskarides:

    https://investigativegenetics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13323-016-0032-8


    Mr Voskarides has a table #2 there that states 66% Anatolian dna and 24% Levantine dna and only 13% Greek dn. I cannot see how he comes up with those percents from the numbers he shows anywhere in the article. Can anyone here help clarify this for me? Thanks, Pericles.

    Here is table 2:

    Table 2:

    https://investigativegenetics.biomed...16-0032-8#Tab2

    Here in Heraclides you can see Voskarides' breakdowns:

    https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0179474.s013

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