Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456
Results 126 to 133 of 133

Thread: EV13 from Central Asia

  1. #126
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    04-03-18
    Posts
    246
    Points
    2,215
    Level
    13
    Points: 2,215, Level: 13
    Level completed: 22%, Points required for next Level: 235
    Overall activity: 9.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-Z17107>A24048
    MtDNA haplogroup
    I1a1a

    Ethnic group
    Qun, Ermi
    Country: Bosnia & Herzegovina



    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    There’s seems to have been no peasants in Serbia. Almost every Serb family or a tribe (Montenegro) is connected one way or another to a nobility or a ruler from the medeival era. Fascinating stuff really.
    There are indeed many claims, and some of them are partially true, but usually there is a well defined family that has certain ancestor and that he was real, for ex. the ancestor of Vasojevici. And there are many such clans with various haplogroups and subclades, Banjani, Drobnjaci, Ozrinici all of them being 500, 600, 700+ years old and mentioned in medieval documents.


    But I have to make a distinction between my family and various Montenegrin clans claiming descend from certain individuals and feudal families from medieval timefrime, because it was at that time desired to be a descendant of Nemanjici, Brankovici, Altomanovici, Mrnjavcevici etc. so those stories were made up mostly and often with influence of the church, BUT what my ancestors claimed to descend from was something no one 500 years ago knew (except very very few people likely in oral tradition) even existed, and even so it would have been of no advantage at that time to claim such descent anyway and they did nevertheless.


    There are actually very few Serb families that can say their ancestor was ktitor of church/monastery that dates to medieval times and that it had some importance then, and with written evidence to back it up.

    Member of my family was mentioned to have died in 1645 as Ktitor (provider of funds for construction or reconstruction of an Orthodox church or monastery) of monastery/church Nikoljac. He is mentioned in an inscription at the back one Gospel that was coated in silver (again indicating he was wealthy along with being ktitor despite not being a muslim in Ottoman Empire). In Turkish census of 1485, our todays village (as mezra back then so just a piece of land) is mentioned as being a property of that monastery, as well as having "second" (which still stands) name. The phenomenon of "second name" is understood by historians to mean that a new clan came and took the land, and this land being property of the monastery our ancestor was benefactor 160 years later means our family were likely benefactors of the same monastery in 1485 or even a century earlier when it was built. Also I can prove connection of some communities to us, that actually served the Ottomans, and even had timars, one of those "Christian sipahis" who cooperated with Ottomans. We did it until Turko-Austrian wars around 1700, only after that time there was chaos and huge migration out of Lim river area, and migration from the south of clans such as Kuchi, Vasojevici etc.
    Additionally very nearby there is a monastery Kumanica, there is a second monastery of Kumanica in Rudnik region connected to Kumaničić family. I've discovered some data recently to suggest my family had possessed this monastery in 16th century.
    There are two families that are closely related to me, but they are from an unpublished study. But I can say thy have more distant origin from Peshter highlands and both of them seem connected to villages with Cuman onomastical traces. One is village Baljen, likely derived from Cuman name Balin/Baliq, the other from Krnja Jela, where there was a baština called Kuman in 16th century in addition to land called Kurilay.

    There is a Bosniak family nearby also who are C-M48 but their very close matches are found among Turks from Anadolia and being muslim they are likely to descend from an Ottoman sipahi who descended from Seljuk Oghuz Turks.
    But interesting to have in that Polimlje area such populations. I think someone from Prijepolje did an autosomal test recently and he had more East-Asian dna than is usual for western Balkans.


    My own family did not have it easy always. In addition to losing benefits as well as origin traditions which existed before after 1700 and being reduced to а peasant-like status in 19th century, in 1330 in Dechani charter, there was on Kosovo a certain Cuman-like population that seems to be connected to us, looking at some specific names/surnames that appear near Bijelo Polje. They were Sokalniks, status that was specific and more rare. They had obligations of peasants but in lesser volume, had horses and also they had to serve monasteries, which is how I think my family became so affiliated with churches/monasteries and priest service. Also I read they might have been descended from people captured in war. Bulgarian-Cuman army in 1254 ransacked Bijelo Polje and apparently retreated. And due to personal name Kudelin occurring there as well as once it seems near Bijelo Polje, I seem have something to do with Darman and Kudelin who were defeated in 1291 by Serbs, name Darman/Dorman/Drman (Cuman name) wasn't that rare but Kudelin (possibly of East-Slavic origin) was extremely rare in the Balkans. So be it 1254 or 1291 it seems likely/possible my ancestors were prisoners initially.

    So no, vast majority of Serbs doesn't have connection to some more known medieval feudal families, despite many claims but I happen do be one of those that does.
    Last edited by Aspurg; 11-04-18 at 22:23.

  2. #127
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    04-03-18
    Posts
    246
    Points
    2,215
    Level
    13
    Points: 2,215, Level: 13
    Level completed: 22%, Points required for next Level: 235
    Overall activity: 9.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-Z17107>A24048
    MtDNA haplogroup
    I1a1a

    Ethnic group
    Qun, Ermi
    Country: Bosnia & Herzegovina



    Quote Originally Posted by Gheg View Post
    Hi,

    Can you provide the name or a link to the study with the three Z38456+ Greeks please?

    Thanks
    You can find it easily:
    "The coming of the Greeks to Provence and Corsica: Y-chromosome models of archaic Greek colonization of the western Mediterranean"

    Important as there are more markers available. And there aren't too many Greeks on ftdna for example.

    Here they are, I arregned markers in ftdna order and did appropriate edits on some markers (GATAH4 -1, DYS461 +1 etc.) to fit with ftdna values.

    ID region defining marker
    DYS393 DYS390 DYS394 DYS391 DYS385 DYS426 DYS388 DYS439 DYS389I DYS392 DYS389B DYS458 DYS459 DYS455 DYS454 DYS447 DYS437 DYS448 DYS449 DYS464 DYS460 YGATAH4 YCAII DYS456 DYS442 DYS438 DYS444 DYS446 DYS462 DYS452 DYS445 YGATAA10 DYS463 DYS441 GGAAT1B07 YGATAC4 DYS461n


    F2 Smyrna V13
    13 ___________________ 19 9-9 11 11 14 33 14-15.3-17-18 9 17 11 13 12 12 31 10 13 18 14 12 22 12


    F49 Smyrna V13
    13 24 13 10 16-18 11 12 13 13 11 17 21 9-9 11 11 25 14 20 32 14-15.3-17-17 9 12 19-21 17 11 10 13 13 12 31 10 13 18 14 11 22 12




    F90 Phocaea V13
    13 24 13 10 ____ 11 12 12 14 11 17 19 9-9 11 11 24 14 20 30 14-17-17-17 9 12 19-21 17 11 10 12 12 12 31 10 13 18 14 12 22 12




    Unfortunately the F2 from Smyrna is missing some markers, but he still has dys458=19, values typical for Z38456 or to be more precise Z38456>BY4461
    dys464cd=17-18 values typical in general for the entire Z17107

    And as I recently discovered dys444=13 seems to be a value which defines Z38456 because there is another cluster of Z38456>BY4435 which includes two Swedes. All positive to Z38456 have dys444=13, we who are negative have standard value dys444=12.


    And further balkan cluster BY4461 has it's specific trait of having very high value on dys458.


    Interestingly F90 from Phocaea has gone backward on dys444 but he is obviously Z38456. He is missing dys385 but on other markers you see he has 8 differences on 40 markers in comparison to F49 from Smyrna. As I did consider they might have Arvanite origin so many differences suggest they are in Asia Minor for a longer time.


    In comparison, in this study a few R1b BY611 are found and they seem of Arvanite origin because one even has full matchups with Albanians or only a few differences. Although Asia Minor Greeks are not really a population where one would expect plenty of Arvanites.


    Of E-V13's, there are 13, one has only few markers and cannot be classified. Of others 8 are reliably CTS9320. These 3 are Z17107>Z38456, another 2 are CTS9320>Z17264>BY4348, two actually have this value dys444=13 typical for Z38456, however there exists a cluster under Z17264 which has also this value and they have closest matchups with Z17264 so they too are likely to be Z17264. One CTS9320 I couldn't classify yet.


    Also one V13 is E-Z16663, which seems to be an older clade only present in Greeks in the Balkan region. And the remaining three seem S-7461, which is a clade common in Bulgaria as well as some in Greece, one of them is certainly distantly related to S-7461 Greek from Arcadia.





    This Tatar I mentioned has dys444=13, which in combination of DYS413a=22 means he belongs to this clade found in Sweden Z38456>BY4435.
    But I have another Russian, Ponomarev from Far East who is Z17107* distantly (1900 years) connected to Schepak Z17107>BY4467. So that makes it 3 Russians who have 111 STR markers and who are Z17107*.


    Among Serbs I am the only Z17107*, and I calculated Z17107* makes up less than 0.1 % of Serbs. However of Russians from ftdna, Z17107* make up 0.2 %. Also there is a scientific study from Lvov, Ukraine which sampled 154 people. One V13 is Z17107* connected to Ukrainian from Dobromil, the other seems very likely connected to BY4467 Russian. That is 1.3 %. So percentage wise Z17107* is more common the East than among Serbs, counting in greater population there there might be easily 50+ times more Russians who are Z17107* than Serbs. This argument is often used when it comes to Slavic Balkan I2a Din, so why wouldn't I use it either? :)


    And of course on 111 STR markers every one of those Russians is genetically closer to me than any Serbian (or Albanian for that matter) E-V13, which is something unusual for E-V13.



    I also have to more seriously consider that according to some archaeological evidence Geloni might be of Cimmerian origin, Cimmerians were Iranian speaking but intermingled with Thracians (hence there are probably some eastern V13 clades of such origin), looking at one Ruthenian cluster of E-S26015/CTS2001 (Z16988-, Z17107-, Z17264-, S19928-), some CTS9320 clades might have been in Carpathians 3000 years ago. And that might include Z17107* and also Swedo-Tatar Z17107>Z38456>BY4435. Actually the origin of the entire CTS9320 might be some North-South out of Carpathian area early Iron age migration, some might have stayed in the North.
    Also there is one Ossetian who might be E-Z17107*, but SNP is a must for such an unusual haplotype.
    The Ossetian cluster of E-V13 seems closest to a Czech who is an isolated clade under Z5018, so it might be of Cimmerian origin. And that is likely also for Ossetian R1b Y5587 cluster.


    Btw I'm not claiming I descend of Geloni because it might be convenient because of haplogroup, I'm claiming it because I know what my ancestors claimed to descend from 500-600 years ago and that particular clan descends from an Iranic tribe from Caucasus (hence those Georgians I expect to be E-Z17107*) and that tribe does have something to do with them. :)
    Last edited by Aspurg; 12-04-18 at 04:24.

  3. #128
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    17-05-18
    Posts
    1
    Points
    32
    Level
    1
    Points: 32, Level: 1
    Level completed: 64%, Points required for next Level: 18
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Serbia



    Hey guys! Not sure if I am in the right place, but wanted to get some insight. My mtdna is haplogroup K1b1c, branched off of K1 which originates from Middle East 20k years ago. Getting about 0.50% dna composition of siberian yakut, six-seven generations back. Wondering if anybody knows any migration or genealogical trends that support this evidence. Any insight is appreciated!

  4. #129
    Junior Member Achievements:
    3 months registered250 Experience Points

    Join Date
    17-11-17
    Posts
    2
    Points
    452
    Level
    5
    Points: 452, Level: 5
    Level completed: 2%, Points required for next Level: 98
    Overall activity: 1.0%


    Country: UK - England



    I did further SNP tests; and have been confirmed as E-Z5017. Much father’s family are from Northern India, and have not met anyone other E-V13 individual from this region.

  5. #130
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    30-04-10
    Posts
    336
    Points
    15,078
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,078, Level: 37
    Level completed: 29%, Points required for next Level: 572
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Serbia



    Quote Originally Posted by SS1982 View Post
    I did further SNP tests; and have been confirmed as E-Z5017. Much father’s family are from Northern India, and have not met anyone other E-V13 individual from this region.
    Very interesting!
    Which SNP test have you done? Do you know if you are negative for known SNPs under the Z5017?

    Btw, I'm also E-Z5017 but under it I have several more SNPs determined.

  6. #131
    Junior Member Achievements:
    100 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-07-18
    Location
    White Mount
    Posts
    2
    Points
    99
    Level
    1
    Points: 99, Level: 1
    Level completed: 49%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 6.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E1b1a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    L2

    Ethnic group
    Creole
    Country: Mauritius



    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.

    Wink E-V13 Origin

    It is true that E-V13 migrated from Asia. In fact they migrated more specifically from Persia. What I'm trying to tell you is that E-V13 is the original Persian identity. They were a people closely related to Negroids. Most of the true Persians, E-V13 carriers, held firm against the invading Greeks, carriers of haplogroup J, in the 3rd - 4th century BC but were defeated and taken captive mostly to the Balkans. That is why most E-V13 is concentrated there today. In the Balkans they took Caucasian wives and gradually lost their negroid features. During the Greek invasion, some rich Persians fled to the East, such as India. But the poorest stayed in Iran and the Middle East, while Greek settlers inflated the local population. The Persians' closest allies, the Medes (Caucasians & carriers of haplogroup H), were also taken captive by the Greeks but not in so large numbers. Most Medes fled to India. Those Medes who were captive in the Balkans are today called Romani (Gypsies). Few Persian remnants still exist in India.
    It is worth noting that during the Greek invasion many Babylonians (carriers of haplogroup L and T) fled to India, while others who fought as mercenaries for the Persians and others who cooperated with the Persians were enslaved in the Balkans.
    This is the true history that nobody will ever tell you!

  7. #132
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Nik's Avatar
    Join Date
    21-11-10
    Posts
    435
    Points
    5,439
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,439, Level: 21
    Level completed: 78%, Points required for next Level: 111
    Overall activity: 53.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13>CTS9320>Z38456

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Switzerland



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Merodak View Post
    It is true that E-V13 migrated from Asia. In fact they migrated more specifically from Persia. What I'm trying to tell you is that E-V13 is the original Persian identity. They were a people closely related to Negroids. Most of the true Persians, E-V13 carriers, held firm against the invading Greeks, carriers of haplogroup J, in the 3rd - 4th century BC but were defeated and taken captive mostly to the Balkans. That is why most E-V13 is concentrated there today. In the Balkans they took Caucasian wives and gradually lost their negroid features. During the Greek invasion, some rich Persians fled to the East, such as India. But the poorest stayed in Iran and the Middle East, while Greek settlers inflated the local population. The Persians' closest allies, the Medes (Caucasians & carriers of haplogroup H), were also taken captive by the Greeks but not in so large numbers. Most Medes fled to India. Those Medes who were captive in the Balkans are today called Romani (Gypsies). Few Persian remnants still exist in India.
    It is worth noting that during the Greek invasion many Babylonians (carriers of haplogroup L and T) fled to India, while others who fought as mercenaries for the Persians and others who cooperated with the Persians were enslaved in the Balkans.
    This is the true history that nobody will ever tell you!
    Question is where did the Orcs come from?

  8. #133
    Junior Member Achievements:
    100 Experience Points31 days registered
    arctangent's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-09-18
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    5
    Points
    238
    Level
    2
    Points: 238, Level: 2
    Level completed: 88%, Points required for next Level: 12
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-Z16663

    Ethnic group
    Norwegian, German, English
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    Also one V13 is E-Z16663, which seems to be an older clade only present in Greeks in the Balkan region. And the remaining three seem S-7461, which is a clade common in Bulgaria as well as some in Greece, one of them is certainly distantly related to S-7461 Greek from Arcadia.
    While I haven't done a Big-Y yet on FTDNA, I have gotten as far as being classified E-Z16663. I came by the Eupedia forums to see if I could find any information on this relatively rare subclade, and it seems you're the only person to have ever mentioned it--at least as far as the forum search engine is concerned ;)
    Edit to add: If I had searched for just "Z16663", I'd have seen all the hits. Oops.

    As far as I know, my patrilineal ancestors were German, but I've hit a brick wall only 5 generations back, and see no mention of that 3rd great grandfather before he emigrated to the US. It's possible they'd only been in Germany a short time (as yDNA haplogroups go).

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •