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Thread: EV13 from Central Asia

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    EV13 from Central Asia

    Hello there. I m new to this forum, I am glad to be the part of your community. I am male from Uzbekistan, Bukhoro. I did DNA test and was surprised to know that my y DNA is e1b1b1a1b1a* which is ev 13 and is almost non existent in Central Asia as far as I know. I saw many ev13 maps and they don't include Central Asia at all. I think my case is very interesting and I was very surprised to have y DNA the same as most Kosovars Albanians. I don't know how Balkan y DNA settled in Uzbekistan.
    My mtdna is k1a4a1e, because my mother is Central European.
    Last edited by baha; 28-06-17 at 18:11.

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    1 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by baha View Post
    Hello there. I m new to this forum, I am glad to be they part of your community. I am male from Uzbekistan, Bukhoro, living now in Russia. I did DNA test and was surprised to know that my y DNA is e1b1b1a1b1a* which is ev 13 and is almost non existent in Central Asia as far as I know. I saw many ev13 maps and they don't include Central Asia at all. I think my case is very interesting and I was very surprised to have y DNA the same as most Kosovars Albanians. I don't know how Balkan y DNA settled in Uzbekistan.
    My mtdna is k1a4a1e, because my mother is Central European.
    Uzbekistan, Bukhoro area corresponds to the ancient population of Massagetae:


    Massagetae originated in Balkans: Getae (as greek called them) or Dacians (as romans called them). The were closely related to Thracians.
    Prefix ''massa'' means ''great'' or ''strong'' in old persian language or according to other oopinion ''far away'' in greek language. So massagetae= the great getae or the getae from far away.
    In my opinion based on your result this must be the most likely scenario.

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    Quote Originally Posted by baha View Post
    Hello there. I m new to this forum, I am glad to be they part of your community. I am male from Uzbekistan, Bukhoro, living now in Russia. I did DNA test and was surprised to know that my y DNA is e1b1b1a1b1a* which is ev 13 and is almost non existent in Central Asia as far as I know. I saw many ev13 maps and they don't include Central Asia at all. I think my case is very interesting and I was very surprised to have y DNA the same as most Kosovars Albanians. I don't know how Balkan y DNA settled in Uzbekistan.
    My mtdna is k1a4a1e, because my mother is Central European.
    are you from Tashkent?
    or Aral?
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Hello brother! welcome to the forum, I'm also new here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    are you from Tashkent?
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    or Aral?

    No I am from Bukhara, which is on the south of Uzbekistan, and historically has a significant ethnic Tajik population and some Iranians too. Tashkent is far more turkic/mongolized as far as I know imo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cip View Post
    Uzbekistan, Bukhoro area corresponds to the ancient population of Massagetae:


    Massagetae originated in Balkans: Getae (as greek called them) or Dacians (as romans called them). The were closely related to Thracians.
    Prefix ''massa'' means ''great'' or ''strong'' in old persian language or according to other oopinion ''far away'' in greek language. So massagetae= the great getae or the getae from far away.
    In my opinion based on your result this must be the most likely scenario.
    Interesting hypothesis.
    Is there a chance that Alexander the Great soldiers impregnated some local women during their invasion to Khorasan territories (which includes Bukhoro and Samarkand)?

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    There are two ways E-V13 could end up in Central Asia:

    1- Greco Bactrain Kingdom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Bactrian_Kingdom



    In the aftermath of Alexander The Great's death, his vast empire was divided among his generals, one of them, Seleucus Nicator, founded the Seleucid Empire, which controlled most of Alexander's Asian territory, including Central Asia. At a later date, Diodotus, the satrap of Bactria (and probably the surrounding provinces) founded the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom when he seceded from the Seleucid Empire around 250 BC and became King Diodotus I of Bactria.

    This kingdom's population did include Greek and Macedonian colonists, soldiers and administrators, as well as natives, so E-V13 could end up in central Asia because of them.

    If you test deep subclades of E-V13 and then turn out to cluster in a clade that include people from the Balkans, then you indeed descend from Greek or Macedonian settlers.

    2- From Russia :

    It is possible that E-V13 could end in central Asia from the time of the Russian Empire or the Soviet Union, I don't know if its possible to determine if this is true, because testing deep subclades that include Russians might also include other people from eastern Europe or the Balkans, in theory it should work but I don't think there are enough samples with detailed subclades, have you joined the E-V13 project or not ? that might help.

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    To IronSide: 2nd is impossible because my father is not Russian and doesn't have Russian relatives. Moreover Russian presence in Uzbekistan started when USSR was formed, so Russian/local ethnic mix is very recent and very rare. Like in my case - local father and Russian mother (however autosomal analysis reveals she's about 40% Russian)

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronSide View Post
    There are two ways E-V13 could end up in Central Asia:

    1- Greco Bactrain Kingdom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Bactrian_Kingdom



    In the aftermath of Alexander The Great's death, his vast empire was divided among his generals, one of them, Seleucus Nicator, founded the Seleucid Empire, which controlled most of Alexander's Asian territory, including Central Asia. At a later date, Diodotus, the satrap of Bactria (and probably the surrounding provinces) founded the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom when he seceded from the Seleucid Empire around 250 BC and became King Diodotus I of Bactria.

    This kingdom's population did include Greek and Macedonian colonists, soldiers and administrators, as well as natives, so E-V13 could end up in central Asia because of them.

    If you test deep subclades of E-V13 and then turn out to cluster in a clade that include people from the Balkans, then you indeed descend from Greek or Macedonian settlers.

    2- From Russia :

    It is possible that E-V13 could end in central Asia from the time of the Russian Empire or the Soviet Union, I don't know if its possible to determine if this is true, because testing deep subclades that include Russians might also include other people from eastern Europe or the Balkans, in theory it should work but I don't think there are enough samples with detailed subclades, have you joined the E-V13 project or not ? that might help.
    Is that really called central-asia?

    any way, IIRC the E-V13 as I read a few years ago was attributed to Macedonian troops via modern albania , as Macedonia ruled all of Albania from Alexanders father time until the roman-macedonian wars of 198BC-146BC
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronSide View Post
    There are two ways E-V13 could end up in Central Asia:

    1- Greco Bactrain

    In the aftermath of Alexander The Great's death, his vast empire was divided among his generals, one of them, Seleucus Nicator, founded the Seleucid Empire, which controlled most of Alexander's Asian territory, including Central Asia. At a later date, Diodotus, the satrap of Bactria (and probably the surrounding provinces) founded the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom when he seceded from the Seleucid Empire around 250 BC and became King Diodotus I of Bactria.

    This kingdom's population did include Greek and Macedonian colonists, soldiers and administrators, as well as natives, so E-V13 could end up in central Asia because of them.

    If you test deep subclades of E-V13 and then turn out to cluster in a clade that include people from the Balkans, then you indeed descend from Greek or Macedonian settlers.

    2- From Russia :

    It is possible that E-V13 could end in central Asia from the time of the Russian Empire or the Soviet Union, I don't know if its possible to determine if this is true, because testing deep subclades that include Russians might also include other people from eastern Europe or the Balkans, in theory it should work but I don't think there are enough samples with detailed subclades, have you joined the E-V13 project or not ? that might help.
    Actually I did the test in a local Russian company and they don't offer deep testing of Y DNA subclades. It is complicated to make 23andme test from my country due to complications with shipping of the biological material. I might try to do it in the future via Shipito for more deep testing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Is that really called central-asia?

    any way, IIRC the E-V13 as I read a few years ago was attributed to Macedonian troops via modern albania , as Macedonia ruled all of Albania from Alexanders father time until the roman-macedonian wars of 198BC-146BC
    Yes it is the Central Asia except some parts on the south and west

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronSide View Post
    There are two ways E-V13 could end up in Central Asia:

    1- Greco Bactrain Kingdom

    In the aftermath of Alexander The Great's death, his vast empire was divided among his generals, one of them, Seleucus Nicator, founded the Seleucid Empire, which controlled most of Alexander's Asian territory, including Central Asia. At a later date, Diodotus, the satrap of Bactria (and probably the surrounding provinces) founded the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom when he seceded from the Seleucid Empire around 250 BC and became King Diodotus I of Bactria.

    This kingdom's population did include Greek and Macedonian colonists, soldiers and administrators, as well as natives, so E-V13 could end up in central Asia because of them.

    If you test deep subclades of E-V13 and then turn out to cluster in a clade that include people from the Balkans, then you indeed descend from Greek or Macedonian settlers.

    2- From Russia :

    It is possible that E-V13 could end in central Asia from the time of the Russian Empire or the Soviet Union, I don't know if its possible to determine if this is true, because testing deep subclades that include Russians might also include other people from eastern Europe or the Balkans, in theory it should work but I don't think there are enough samples with detailed subclades, have you joined the E-V13 project or not ? that might help.
    This results is from a local company that does this kind of genetic test. They do not test deep subclades as far as I know, just general Ydna/mydna and autosomal testing. Later I might do testing in American company for more profounded results

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    Quote Originally Posted by baha View Post
    I did DNA test and was surprised to know that my y DNA is e1b1b1a1b1a* which is ev 13 and is almost non existent in Central Asia as far as I know.
    Well, haplogroup E is found in Central Asia among Uzbeks at 2.5%, Uyghurs from Urumqi at 6.5% and among Tajiks at 3 %. Only Uzbek sample is good enough to say that it is real frequency, so it seems hat You are quite regular Uzbek in matter of Y haplogroup ;)

    Here source of frequencies:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_...and_North_Asia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_...y_ethnic_group

    BTW there is possibility that E came to central Asia with Indoeuropeans.

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    I will add autosomal testing results (the local Russian company that did the test only has samples of 36 diff ethnicities to compare with, it is possible that results from American DNA testing company may come a bit different and I wonder how accurate the actual testing is)
    12.19 % Central Russia
    9.6 % Pakistan
    8.66 % Finland
    6.98 % Ukranian
    6.84 % East-Med, Levant
    6.28 % North Caucasus
    6.14 % Iberia
    5.41 % Balkan
    4.86 % Siberia
    4.57 % Scotland
    4.36 % Armenia
    4.29 % Italy
    2.85 % Hungary
    2.52 % France
    2.39 % India
    2.33 % Northeast Asia
    2.2 % Georgia
    1.84 % England
    1.16 % Oceania
    1.1 % Africa
    1 % Chuvash
    0.98 % Malaysian
    0.76 % South China
    0.69 % Sardinia

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    I will add autosomal testing results (the local Russian company that did the test only has samples of 36 diff ethnicities to compare with, it is possible that results from American DNA testing company may come a bit different and I wonder how accurate the actual testing is)
    12.19 % Central Russia
    9.6 % Pakistan
    8.66 % Finland
    6.98 % Ukranian
    6.84 % East-Med, Levant
    6.28 % North Caucasus
    6.14 % Iberia
    5.41 % Balkan
    4.86 % Siberia
    4.57 % Scotland
    4.36 % Armenia
    4.29 % Italy
    2.85 % Hungary
    2.52 % France
    2.39 % India
    2.33 % Northeast Asia
    2.2 % Georgia
    1.84 % England
    1.16 % Oceania
    1.1 % Africa
    1 % Chuvash
    0.98 % Malaysian
    0.76 % South China
    0.69 % Sardinia

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    I will add autosomal testing results (the local Russian company that did the test only has samples of 36 diff ethnicities to compare with, it is possible that results from American DNA testing company may come a bit different and I wonder how accurate the actual testing is)
    12.19 % Central Russia
    9.6 % Pakistan
    8.66 % Finland
    6.98 % Ukranian
    6.84 % East-Med, Levant
    6.28 % North Caucasus
    6.14 % Iberia
    5.41 % Balkan
    4.86 % Siberia
    4.57 % Scotland
    4.36 % Armenia
    4.29 % Italy
    2.85 % Hungary
    2.52 % France
    2.39 % India
    2.33 % Northeast Asia
    2.2 % Georgia
    1.84 % England
    1.16 % Oceania
    1.1 % Africa
    1 % Chuvash
    0.98 % Malaysian
    0.76 % South China
    0.69 % Sardinia

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I too an E-V13, and my father’s family are from northern India. I’ve yet to find any other northern indian E-V13.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS1982 View Post
    I too an E-V13, and my father’s family are from northern India. I’ve yet to find any other northern indian E-V13.
    Your case is interesting, if only we could know your deep subclade then maybe some theories will be confirmed, and others rejected.

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    It seems one of the E-V13 branches found in the Middle east is S7461. For now it is found in Lebanon, among Druze, in Iraq and Saudi Arabia. Interesting, this subbranch is very widely spread, in Western Europe, England, Belgium and Sweden, on the Balkans among Bulgarians and also in the Middle East.
    Similar distribution has the branch Y16729, it is found among Englishmen and Arabs an also in a single Bulgarian, who does not belong to any of those clusters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eastara View Post
    It seems one of the E-V13 branches found in the Middle east is S7461. For now it is found in Lebanon, among Druze, in Iraq and Saudi Arabia. Interesting, this subbranch is very widely spread, in Western Europe, England, Belgium and Sweden, on the Balkans among Bulgarians and also in the Middle East.
    Similar distribution has the branch Y16729, it is found among Englishmen and Arabs an also in a single Bulgarian, who does not belong to any of those clusters.
    Very interesting


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    My closest E-V13 matches (37 markers) on a popular testing website are all Tatar. With 12 markers, I have the usual suspects (Swiss, English, Greek, Albanian, Macedonian, Bulgar and even a few Saudi Arab matches). I am not that surprised about the Tatar part (my family is proud of its Central Asian roots), but about the E-V13: In Hungary, people usually think that E-V13 was there before the Hungarians or came during the Ottoman invasion with Christian refugees.

    I found out that some Tatars claim descent from Soqrat Hakim, who came from Anatolia. This would explain a lot.

    In addition to that, the Greek and later Venetian and Genoese colonies all over the Black Sea coast certainly left a genetic trace in the region that may have spilt to Usbekistan (baha) or even Northern India (SS1982). To not underestimate the power of trade (Silk Road...) and the mobility of horsemen in Central Eurasia.

    In my personal case, I have to deal with a relatively recent match (could be within the genealogical timeframe) from Tatarstan. We had frequent Crimean Tatar invasions (last one in 1717), but it is quite the stretch from Tatarstan to Crimea as well. As a genealogist, I also know that the survival rate of an illegitimate child was close to zero from the mid-1600s (when the first birth registers were started) until the 1940s, so rape is a frequent, but not necessarily accurate conclusion. My ancestors most probably arrived to Hungary as Kypchaks/Cumanians.

    Concerning the Usbek (baha) a Northern Indian (ss1982) cases, I think the Mongolian population policy might have had something to do with the diffusions. Anyway, I am happy to have found two distant Eastern E-V13 brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by eastara View Post
    It seems one of the E-V13 branches found in the Middle east is S7461. For now it is found in Lebanon, among Druze, in Iraq and Saudi Arabia. Interesting, this subbranch is very widely spread, in Western Europe, England, Belgium and Sweden, on the Balkans among Bulgarians and also in the Middle East.
    Similar distribution has the branch Y16729, it is found among Englishmen and Arabs an also in a single Bulgarian, who does not belong to any of those clusters.
    Interesting interesting .. I'd say our ancestors migrated together to the near east, three Indo-European language groups are said to be related and the last to separate from the proto language: 1- Indo Iranian 2- Armenian 3- Greek. E-V13 is young, 2100BC, but it's not just in Greece, its also in Iran, and some cases in the Levant and Arabia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeco-Aryan

    So maybe the Mitanni had some of it.


  23. #23
    axualonso
    Guest


    Baha Assalamu aleykum

    Quote Originally Posted by baha View Post
    Hello there. I m new to this forum, I am glad to be the part of your community. I am male from Uzbekistan, Bukhoro. I did DNA test and was surprised to know that my y DNA is e1b1b1a1b1a* which is ev 13 and is almost non existent in Central Asia as far as I know. I saw many ev13 maps and they don't include Central Asia at all. I think my case is very interesting and I was very surprised to have y DNA the same as most Kosovars Albanians. I don't know how Balkan y DNA settled in Uzbekistan.
    My mtdna is k1a4a1e, because my mother is Central European.
    Baha xush kelibsen qardosh.
    Mening otim Emre. Men Turkiyaning Antalya shehrindenmen. Atam (Turkic Oghuz) Oghuzlarning Salur branchindan(Orta asiyadan Anatoliaga kelgen). Men hem E-V13 men. Menden boshka Turkiyada 100te test olgan kishidan 3tesi hem E-V13. 2tesi Oghuzlarning KAYI degen branchasindan. 1tesi BEGDILI degen branchasinden. BEGDILI anatoliaga Xorazmden kelgen. KAYI ese özü Usmanilar bilen Buhara tamanidan kelgen dep bir neche Turk tarixchilar yazgan. Sening e-mailing neme? Men sen bilen buning hokida yozishmak isteyapman. Chunki E-V13 Turkiya, Azerbaycan, Turkmenistanda hem bor. Sen E-V13ning balkonlikinga ishonma. Bu özü butun dunyoda bar bolgan bir haplogroup. Senge bu yerde roman askari orta asiyoga ketti undan keliyopsiz dep ayitarsa ishonma. Menge mail adresingi yoz men senge bu bilen bilgenim hemme nerseni anglotmakchiman.

  24. #24
    axualonso
    Guest


    Quote Originally Posted by baha View Post
    Hello there. I m new to this forum, I am glad to be the part of your community. I am male from Uzbekistan, Bukhoro. I did DNA test and was surprised to know that my y DNA is e1b1b1a1b1a* which is ev 13 and is almost non existent in Central Asia as far as I know. I saw many ev13 maps and they don't include Central Asia at all. I think my case is very interesting and I was very surprised to have y DNA the same as most Kosovars Albanians. I don't know how Balkan y DNA settled in Uzbekistan.
    My mtdna is k1a4a1e, because my mother is Central European.
    Dear Baha,
    I am from Antalya, Turkey. I am also E-V13. My father is from a tribe whose name is Üründü( Most probaly it belongs to Salur branch of Oghuz Turks). In Turkey there are total 100 people who had y-dna test and there are %5 ratio which are belong to E1b haplogroup. 4 of them are coming from Middle Asian Turkic Oghuz tribes. 1 of them is me. 2 of them is from KAYI tribe. 1 of them is from BEGDILI tribe.(BEGDILI is from Harezm by the way). Our family is all nomads living mountains of Anatolia and we dont mix any other nation and marriages are all inside the family. E-V13 is a very wide haplo and be sure that this haplo is migrated to Siberia 4000 BC befor Turkic nation is not present(Oghuzs, Karluks and Kipchaks). This haplo is present in Turkey, Turkmenistan, Azerbaycan, Kazakistan and even Uighurs. My and one of Kayı E-V13 family recorded at Ottoman Historical papers. We are sure that we came here from middle asia with Seljuk Oghuz Turks.

  25. #25
    axualonso
    Guest


    One day, the real history will be written which is E1b migrated to Balkans from Asia!

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