Iron Age and Early Medieval Polish DNA

It's time to accept the facts. Davidski and everyone else who insisted that Slavic ethnogenesis took place in Poland were wrong. It was probably, as most people, including Jean Manco, insisted, somewhere in western Ukraine and Belarus.
 
Angela said:
It's time to accept the facts. Davidski and everyone else who insisted that Slavic ethnogenesis took place in Poland were wrong. It was probably, as most people, including Jean Manco, insisted, somewhere in western Ukraine and Belarus.
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was there ever any doubt about this!............the russian scholars have been saying this since 2002
 
Angela said:
It's time to accept the facts. Davidski and everyone else who insisted that Slavic ethnogenesis took place in Poland were wrong. It was probably, as most people, including Jean Manco, insisted, somewhere in western Ukraine and Belarus.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't exclude South-Eastern Poland from possible locations though. Anyway it seems that Proto-Slavs looked like a mix of Hungarian Bronze Age with Baltic Bronze Age populations. Question is where did that population - which looked like such a mix - live. It could be in North-Western Ukraine, South-Eastern Poland, both, or elsewhere.
 
Regarding south eastern Poland, you mean not Subcarpathia but rather Lubelskie?
 
mlukas said:
Regarding south eastern Poland, you mean not Subcarpathia but rather Lubelskie?
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Maybe Lubelskie, or both regions.
 
Quite interesting lecture about the cementary in Bodzia from
the period 965-1035 where were find people from everywhere,
and they were quite rich. Franks, Moravians, Rusins, Northmen,
maybe also Chazars migriting to Kuyavia. It would be interesting
to test them to see, what DNA they brought here. Russkie was I1.

 
Rethel said:
Quite interesting lecture about the cementary in Bodzia from
the period 965-1035 where were find people from everywhere,
and they were quite rich. Franks, Moravians, Rusins, Northmen,
maybe also Chazars migriting to Kuyavia. It would be interesting
to test them to see, what DNA they brought here. Russkie was I1.
Click to expand...
Very interesting lecture. Too bad it is not in English. The whole world could enjoy this interesting lecture.

Pay attention that C14 dating was very precise and in agreement with written historical events and dating by buried coins. Now, exactly the same C14 dating technique is used of dating bones of Kostenki or Mal'ta guys and in agreement with archeology, material culture, fauna, geology and dated at 40 and 20 kya respectively.
 
LeBrok said:
Pay attention that C14 dating was very precise and in agreement with written historical events and dating by buried coins. Now, exactly the same C14 dating technique is used of dating bones of Kostenki or Mal'ta guys and in agreement with archeology, material culture, fauna, geology and dated at 40 and 20 kya respectively.
Click to expand...

Nope.
Guy from before 1000 years did live in similar circumstances as we, so the results were correct.
But in the deep past circumstances on the planet were different, and the basic amount of C14
was different than is today. And there is no way to say, what was the amount when someone
was alive becasue firstly it has to be known not only how much of C14 was in the atmosphere,
but also when did such organism lived - co the circle is closed. Especially in creasionistic model
it is the necessary condition, which - when you reject flood and aso - will misslead you totally.

If the method would be correct always and everywhere, then two different parts of one animal
would not have different ages, different on thousadns of years. When I find it I will post it here.

But it is nothing, comnparing with the problem, that C14 is still there where he phisically cannot
be - not only in the remains of animals supposedly living hundrets of millions years ago like the
dinosaurs, but also in coal. There should be none of C14 - should be degradeted long ago. But
is - and it means, that this organisms and the coal is not older than 50k+ some years - as the
period of total destruction of C14 is long if I remember correctly. Dinosaurs are dated by this
method between 20,000 and 40,000 years. So, if you belive in Malta boy being 22,000 years
old, and Kostienki being 40,000 years old, then you have to also belive in such old dinosaurs,
because the method is the same and the result is similar.
 
After looking over the I1 trees more carefully, it appears that Z58, while being more popular in german tribes that migrated to the UK, does have significant branches that are "Nordic."

The Z59 branch, which is a large component of Z58, has many Nordic subclades including Z382 which is upstream of what was found in one of these Poland samples.
 
I1a3_Young said:
After looking over the I1 trees more carefully, it appears that Z58, while being more popular in german tribes that migrated to the UK, does have significant branches that are "Nordic."

The Z59 branch, which is a large component of Z58, has many Nordic subclades including Z382 which is upstream of what was found in one of these Poland samples.
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Well, actually Those Nordic branches could have originated from Jutland, so it could be the case for other clades that are spread in the eastern and southern part of Europe. Under Z59 is I1-FGC24357 clade which has TMRCA at 1750 ybp and it descendants live today in Sardinia, Stockholm and England. Another subclade Y3560 that has TMRCA at 2300 ybp is found in Bulgaria and Slovenia. By now it looks like signatures of Goths and Vandals.

Edit:
The other cade L1237 under Z63 has TMRCA at 2900 ybp it is spread from Russia to Italy and Great Britain it corresponds with spread of Pomeranian culture in Poland. It actually supports theory that Germanic folks settled in Poland way before emergence of Wielbark culture.
 
matbir said:
Well, actually Those Nordic branches could have originated from Jutland, so it could be the case for other clades that are spread in the eastern and southern part of Europe. Under Z59 is I1-FGC24357 clade which has TMRCA at 1750 ybp and it descendants live today in Sardinia, Stockholm and England. Another subclade Y3560 that has TMRCA at 2300 ybp is found in Bulgaria and Slovenia. By now it looks like signatures of Goths and Vandals.

Edit:
The other cade L1237 under Z63 has TMRCA at 2900 ybp it is spread from Russia to Italy and Great Britain it corresponds with spread of Pomeranian culture in Poland. It actually supports theory that Germanic folks settled in Poland way before emergence of Wielbark culture.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I used the word Nordic instead of Scandinavian. I certainly think that it's a strong possibility that Z58 appeared first in Denmark or south Sweden and had major branches in both directions.

Z63 branches of all types were spread by the eastern wandering Gothic tribes and also the western migrators to the British Isles.

I know we call the Gothics German but is that completely accurate? How about the Angles/Saxons/Jutes? Are the Danes the official border of Scandinavians despite the proximity and similarity of the aforementioned "Germanic" tribes?

We know a Germanic people were in Wielbark at a specific time but that part of Europe was highly volatile regarding populations. That is the fun of European history. If the mysteries we're all solved then we would be out of a hobby.
 
KO25 and 55 plot perfect for Z63 zone, straddling the German/Scandinavian border.

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[FONT=&quot]Comparing Kit xxxxxxx and M070872 (Kowalewko_22)

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Largest segment = 31.8 cM[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Total of segments > 7 cM = 77.7 cM[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 matching segments[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]9626 SNPs used for this comparison.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Comparison took 0.39881 seconds.[/FONT]
 
[FONT=&quot]Comparing Kit xxxxxxx and M518184 (Mas_5)

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Largest segment = 21.9 cM[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Total of segments > 7 cM = 21.9 cM[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 matching segments[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]10519 SNPs used for this comparison.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Comparison took 0.23592 seconds.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
 
[FONT=&quot]Comparing Kit xxxxxxx and T533353 (mar7)

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Largest segment = 14.6 cM[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Total of segments > 7 cM = 82.4 cM[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 matching segments[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]18745 SNPs used for this comparison.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Comparison took 0.25097 seconds.[/FONT]
 
[FONT=&quot]Comparing Kit xxxxxxx and T855386 (Kow_26)


[/FONT]​[FONT=&quot]Largest segment = 47.0 cM[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Total of segments > 7 cM = 47.0 cM[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 matching segments[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]6382 SNPs used for this comparison.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Comparison took 0.30252 seconds.[/FONT]
 
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