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Thread: Creationism - the anti-science.

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    It's you who will not listen to reason.

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    Rethel,
    I will not try to convince you of my ideas, but would like you to pose yourself some questions and be impartial in the answer.
    As mentioned, quite few scientist had a religious background, and yet they could be impartial.



    The Andromeda Galaxy, it is visible by naked eye on a moonless night (make me happy and just look it up on wikipedia).
    It's distance from earth (basically our eyes) is 2.5 million light years.

    That means that the light photons that hit our eyes today were emitted from Andromeda 2.5 million years ago.
    Somehow you might want to evaluate that fact impartially - are the scientist making up these numbers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergin View Post
    Rethel,
    I will not try to convince you of my ideas, but would like you to pose yourself some questions and be impartial in the answer.
    As mentioned, quite few scientist had a religious background, and yet they could be impartial.



    The Andromeda Galaxy, it is visible by naked eye on a moonless night (make me happy and just look it up on wikipedia).
    It's distance from earth (basically our eyes) is 2.5 million light years.

    That means that the light photons that hit our eyes today were emitted from Andromeda 2.5 million years ago.
    Somehow you might want to evaluate that fact impartially - are the scientist making up these numbers?
    He will tell you that laws of physics were different in the past, that's why. Creationists band laws of physics so the world agrees with the bible.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    Maybe I am not convincing, becasue I am not talking what you want to hear?
    You just do not want to be convinced, like LeBrok. On one post, he was claiming
    that one or two guys did live 20k and 40k years ago becasue C14 showed it, but
    when he became awarem, that the same method dated dinosaurs at the same age,
    he just ignored it and pretend that nothing happend. The same with the fact, that
    C14 simly cannot be at all in at leat 65 mln years old remains. ?
    C14 is very accurate till 50 kya. It is enough to disprove 6 ky old universe. We don't even need to get into details how to measure age of dinosaurs. Keep it simple to understand your fallacy. Now go tell us how god changed laws of physics.
    Last edited by LeBrok; 22-07-17 at 03:33.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I just wonder how someone could get through a normal high school and not have taken basic science courses. It's just amazing to me. The only places here that teach this 6,000 year old earth nonsense are people "educated" in small fundamentalist schools.


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    Atheism is just a hypothesis which will never be proved. Of course, this belief per se is not scientific. If anything, it is another form of "religion". So sad that these people do not see this and sometimes they behave like the old Spanish inquisitors. Just look around you how many of them talk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diomedes View Post
    Atheism is just a hypothesis which will never be proved. Of course, this belief per se is not scientific. If anything, it is another form of "religion". So sad that these people do not see this and sometimes they behave like the old Spanish inquisitors. Just look around you how many of them talk.
    Diomedes, one can believe in God and still accept science. Most of the people I know are like that. As far as I'm concerned this is just about this 6,000 year old earth nonsense. No one with a brain in his head could accept that...

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    ^ I did not say the opposite. I agree with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    C14 is very accurate till 50 kya.
    So you must belive in 20,000 years old dinosaurs.

    We don't even need to get into details how to measure age of dinosaurs.
    The thing is, that they have C14. They should have none => they are not 65 mln years old.
    It is debunked by your own science in which you trust and use to fight the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Diomedes, one can believe in God and still accept science.
    But the thing is, that evolution is not a science.
    It is a myth and the greatest stupidity ever.
    Even ancient myths were on the higher level
    and more inteligent than that story.

    No one with a brain in his head could accept that...
    So, if someone belive in evolution is wise.
    If someone don;t belive - is not wise.

    99% of belivers of evolution belive becasue they were just told that.
    The same was you and Lebrok. You did not yourself check it. You only
    know, what somebody else did tell you. So, how it makes you wise?

    More than that, whole modern science was made by creationists.
    Isaak Newton even wrote, that atheists (yes! they existed, imagine
    that!) are idiots - the biggest morons ever. He was not clever and
    was not a scientist? So, you cannot belive in gravitation. The same
    in heliocentrism, becasue it was made by a priest! Aaaa... and the
    oceanography was inspired by one verse from the Bible. You as a
    wise human do not belive in that mambo jubo called oceanography
    either. And genetics... and vaccines... aso aso aso...

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    He will tell you that laws of physics were different in the past, that's why. Creationists band laws of physics so the world agrees with the bible.
    Not law of phisics, but enviroment... you don;t even know, what you oppose?
    Quick example: earths atmosphere contain in the past 32% of oxygen. It is a
    fact acknoledge by evolutionists. Today oxygen is 21%. Do you think this did
    not influence anything? Really? If you would reasoning something, assuming,
    that oxygen was always 21% - your results would be wrong. But this is on
    what is based your "wisdom" in other reasonings...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergin View Post
    The Andromeda Galaxy, it is visible by naked eye on a moonless night (make me happy and just look it up on wikipedia).
    It's distance from earth (basically our eyes) is 2.5 million light years.
    Yes.

    That means that the light photons that hit our eyes today were emitted from Andromeda 2.5 million years ago.
    Somehow you might want to evaluate that fact impartially - are the scientist making up these numbers?
    But it doesn;t mean, that this light was coming to us 2.5 mln years.
    When God did create stars, he did it together with visible for us light.
    He did not wait, until this light will come to us on earth... And if the
    Universe is expanding, and some verses suggest that God did expand
    it from the area closer to earth, then this ligh the more was taken from
    "here" with the star to the place where it is now. So actually this light is
    not coming to us, but is going away from us. And the speed of light is
    not necessarly constant, especially in different places in the Universe
    and in the different enviroment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post


    But it doesn;t mean, that this light was coming to us 2.5 mln years.
    When God did create stars, he did it together with visible for us light.
    He did not wait, until this light will come to us on earth... And if the
    Universe is expanding, and some verses suggest that God did expand
    it from the area closer to earth, then this ligh the more was taken from
    "here" with the star to the place where it is now. So actually this light is
    not coming to us, but is going away from us. And the speed of light is
    not necessarly constant, especially in different places in the Universe
    and in the different enviroment.
    Still, from our knowledge, at least from after creation (big bang, creation, whatever) the laws of physics have been stable.
    We might not know what happened before (and we don't), but we do now sufficiently about what happened after.
    So we should see some Doppler shifts if light goes back and forth (like the sound-change of a running ambulance), given that light has to follow the book too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergin View Post
    Still, from our knowledge, at least from after creation (big bang, creation, whatever) the laws of physics have been stable.
    We might not know what happened before (and we don't), but we do now sufficiently about what happened after.
    So we should see some Doppler shifts if light goes back and forth (like the sound-change of a running ambulance), given that light has to follow the book too.
    But it has not necessarly mean, that the emitter of the light is such and such old.

    I gave you another example.
    Let's say, that bunch of scientists go into a time machine and
    took back to the time one second after creation of Adam.

    They would meat him and ask: who are you and how old are you.
    He would say: I am Adam, and I am one second old.

    Scientists would laugh as crazy after waht they would put him unto their research
    using whole knowledge which they have to determine who he is and jow old is he.

    The result which they would have would be like: men, 25, speaking X language,
    living as an outcast, naked, none civilization, his language is similar to this and
    this (or to none), => his tribe must be hundreds of thousands of years old, to
    be able to evolve such complex and clear language, and his family must live
    somewhere neaby.

    What errors would they do?

    1. There is no hundreds thousands of years in which his language evolved.
    Error: wrong datation at least 31536000 x 100,000 x [number of hundrests
    which they would say] times too long, as it is in reality. If they judge it as
    300,000 years then result would be: 9,460,800,000,000 TIMES too big.

    2. He has no living family anywhere. No parents, no grandparents no aso...
    also error in datation of humankind 31536000 x 30 x [number of generations
    which they would propably guessed he had since the begining of humanhind
    according to them]. Lets say as previously 10,000. Same big error would be.

    3. His age would be 31536000x25 ergo 788,400,000 TIMES too big as it was in reality.

    So, think now, how other datations can be wrong also.
    Last edited by Rethel; 26-07-17 at 22:37.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    But it has not necessarly mean, that the emitter of the light is such and such old.

    I gave you another example.
    Let's say, that bunch of scientists go into a time machine and
    took back to the time one second after creation of Adam.

    They would meat him and ask: who are you and how old are you.
    He would say: I am Adam, and I am one second old.

    Scientists would laugh as crazy after waht they would put him unto their research
    using whole knowledge which they have to determine who he is and jow old is he.

    The result which they would have would be like: men, 25, speaking X language,
    living as an outcast, naked, none civilization, his language is similar to this and
    this (or to none), => his tribe must be hundreds of thousands of years old, to
    be able to evolve such complex and clear language, and his family must live
    somewhere neaby.

    What errors would they do?

    1. There is no hundreds thousands of years in which his language evolved.
    Error: wrong datation at least 31536000 x 100,000 x [number of hundrests
    which they would say] times too long, as it is in reality. If they judge it as
    300,000 years then result would be: 9,460,800,000,000 TIMES to big.

    2. He has no living family anywhere. No parents, no grandparents no aso...
    also error in datation of humankind 31536000 x 30 x [number of generations
    which they would propably guessed he had since the begining of humanhind
    according to them]. Lets say as previously 10,000. Same big error would be.

    3. His age would be 31536000x25 ergo 788,400,000 TIMES too big as it was in reality.

    So, think now, how other datations can be wrong also.
    Rethel,
    all scientific measurement are always reported with an error bar.
    Meaning that every observed measurement is part of a distribution of probabilities.

    So nothing is excluded, (even your theories), but they are associated with a probability that is so infinitesimally small.
    At the end, science will only give you a quantitative advice and understanding,
    but
    it is your choice if you want to plan/define your existence on winning the lottery.

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    I am Muslim, but I am of Centrist ideology, so I don't believe everything I read. I do check and balance to make sure nothing contradicts, before drawing any conclusion.

    For Example: I don't believe that this Earth or Universe is just couples of thousand years old, when religious scriptures have clearly talked about Pre-Adamite era, which went for millions of years, as stated in the religious books. There were species living on Earth before Adam and Eve, so when scientists and researchers find out some fossils, which are 700,000 years or 800,000 years old, I don't deny them at all. We do share share genes with them, and in fact, even with a banana. Not shocking at all, since their creator was ONE (my believe). I do believe that mankind has evolved throughout whole these years, had several impacting factors like diet, climate, and geographical locations, which made us look different from one another. However, I do deny that humans actually evolved from previous species.
    Moreover, I don't accept that The Out of Africa Theory, but I do believe in Multi-Regional Theory denying the theory that we still came from Africa. Religion never defines the age of Earth and Universe in Thousands, but in Billions. Adam and Eve were sent to Earth after Last Glacial Period, which ended up 11,000 to 12,000 years BP. Modern Humans on Earth have just lived for 10,000 years, so Adam and Eve came to Earth approximately 10,000 years BP. Adam was a farmer, and first farming happened on Earth 10,000 years ago (read it, and also watched a video by BI Science). I don't know whether there were different races before Noah, but Multi-Regional Theory makes sense, when Noah's sons departed their way to different regions of the Earth. I am still clueless about the East Asian (Mongoloid) race. I am thoroughly looking for answers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noman View Post
    when religious scriptures have clearly talked about Pre-Adamite era, which went for millions of years, as stated in the religious books.
    No, they are not talking anything like that.
    Stop repeating mahometian lies and fairytails from Xth century.

    Adam was the first man. Period.
    There was non pre-Adamic whatsoever.
    This is satanic lie.

    Religion never defines the age of Earth and Universe in Thousands, but in Billions.
    And again you are spreading lies.
    Bible clearly define, that God created
    Adam about 6000 years ago on the
    sixth day of creation. Period.

    Adam and Eve were sent to Earth after Last Glacial Period, which ended up 11,000 to 12,000 years BP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergin View Post
    Rethel,
    all scientific measurement are always reported with an error bar.
    Meaning that every observed measurement is part of a distribution of probabilities.
    Ok, but you must take unto account, that the real error can
    be much bigger, that they are ready to "admit" it can be.
    Actually, they have no idea how big error
    can be, becasue noone ever checked it.

    Fpr example, hg I1 was dated 40,000 years. Now is 3180. It is not a
    mistake - it is clear evidence, that they do not have an idea what they
    are talking about. Such examples are plenty.

    So nothing is excluded, (even your theories), but they are associated with a probability that is so infinitesimally small.
    Probablity that everything made themselves
    from exploding nothingness is equal zero...
    Or even less if it is mathematically possible.

    At the end, science will only give you a quantitative advice and understanding,
    No, they are inforcing it, as a only true truth,
    calling anyone who does not agree with their
    view an idiot, and not allowing any public
    debate or diversity on that matter, and they
    insist to teach this lies small children.

    it is your choice if you want to plan/define your existence on winning the lottery.
    If it would be a choice, then they would not
    forcibly teach it as the only obligatory truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    No, they are not talking anything like that.
    Stop repeating mahometian lies and fairytails from Xth century.

    Adam was the first man. Period.
    There was non pre-Adamic whatsoever.
    This is satanic lie.



    And again you are spreading lies.
    Bible clearly define, that God created
    Adam about 6000 years ago on the
    sixth day of creation. Period.



    Be more civil towards your "opponents" or you are out. And stop using atheist as to convey your emotions, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Be more civil towards your "opponents"
    What is not civil this time?

    And stop using atheist as to convey your emotions, lol.
    Why? I am tolerant

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    Quote Originally Posted by noman View Post
    I am Muslim, but I am of Centrist ideology, so I don't believe everything I read. I do check and balance to make sure nothing contradicts, before drawing any conclusion.

    For Example: I don't believe that this Earth or Universe is just couples of thousand years old, when religious scriptures have clearly talked about Pre-Adamite era, which went for millions of years, as stated in the religious books. There were species living on Earth before Adam and Eve, so when scientists and researchers find out some fossils, which are 700,000 years or 800,000 years old, I don't deny them at all. We do share share genes with them, and in fact, even with a banana. Not shocking at all, since their creator was ONE (my believe). I do believe that mankind has evolved throughout whole these years, had several impacting factors like diet, climate, and geographical locations, which made us look different from one another.
    That's awesome!

    However, I do deny that humans actually evolved from previous species.
    Moreover, I don't accept that The Out of Africa Theory, but I do believe in Multi-Regional Theory denying the theory that we still came from Africa. Religion never defines the age of Earth and Universe in Thousands, but in Billions. Adam and Eve were sent to Earth after Last Glacial Period, which ended up 11,000 to 12,000 years BP. Modern Humans on Earth have just lived for 10,000 years, so Adam and Eve came to Earth approximately 10,000 years BP. Adam was a farmer, and first farming happened on Earth 10,000 years ago (read it, and also watched a video by BI Science). I don't know whether there were different races before Noah, but Multi-Regional Theory makes sense, when Noah's sons departed their way to different regions of the Earth. I am still clueless about the East Asian (Mongoloid) race. I am thoroughly looking for answers.
    We'll you just denied science. We have human (homo sapiens sapiens) remain dated by science to 100 thousand years ago in Eurasia, and in Africa even longer. We also discovered other hominids who lived in Eurasia before HSS, like Neanderthals. We also know that people interbreed with them, and modern humans carry part of their DNA. It is all in undisputed science form, the dating remains and their DNA, and well documented, through population genetics, evolution of HSS through last 50 ky, till today.

    It only doesn't make sense for religious zealots like Rethel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    No, they are not talking anything like that.
    Stop repeating mahometian lies and fairytails from Xth century.

    Adam was the first man. Period.
    There was non pre-Adamic whatsoever.
    This is satanic lie.



    And again you are spreading lies.
    Bible clearly define, that God created
    Adam about 6000 years ago on the
    sixth day of creation. Period.



    Ok, first of all. Not every religion believes in Adam and Eve, but Abrahamic. Second, it looks like you have never read any other religion completely. If you read, you will figure out that Manu in Hinduism is resembled as Noah due to the similarity of "Great Flood".Third, religion did talk about Pre Adamite era. I follow Sufism. Take a look!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Adamite#In_Sufism
    Fourth, I am not spreading any lies. If you want evidences from religious scriptures, I can provide that too.
    Fifth, if you really believe that Adam and Eve came 6000 years ago, then you must have your family tree. Right? What generation of Adam and Eve are you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    That's awesome!

    We'll you just denied science. We have human (homo sapiens sapiens) remain dated by science to 100 thousand years ago in Eurasia, and in Africa even longer. We also discovered other hominids who lived in Eurasia before HSS, like Neanderthals. We also know that people interbreed with them, and modern humans carry part of their DNA. It is all in undisputed science form, the dating remains and their DNA, and well documented, through population genetics, evolution of HSS through last 50 ky, till today.

    It only doesn't make sense for religious zealots like Rethel.
    As I stated already, I don't believe COMPLETELY in what Science or Religion says. I do always have opinions about it. Pre Adam species are referred as "NasNas" in religion. They looked similar to us, but didn't had mental intelligence, as we humans have. I just connect it to the point that our common ancestors is the direct descendant of previous species.

    It's always good to see others's perspective and learn from it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noman View Post
    As I stated already, I don't believe COMPLETELY in what Science or Religion says. I do always have opinions about it.
    That's fine. Check our population genetics section. After reading it you should have much wiser opinion. Genetics and population genetics is a tricky subject. It might take a while for all of this to sink in, sort of speak.
    http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    That's fine. Check our population genetics section. After reading it you should have much wiser opinion. Genetics and population genetics is a tricky subject. It might take a while for all of this to sink in, sort of speak.
    http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/
    Thank you for sharing!

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