Creationism - the anti-science.

[Fire Haired14]

Ok Lebrok after reading your comments again I can see how it couldn't be a sarcastic insult.

 

[Fire Haired14]

Yeah, this right here is why there can't be an almighty god.

No it's just nonsense, like how asking a genie for unlimited wishes is nonsense. That's why I don't like philosophy. It asks questions like that.

 

[Maleth]

I don't get it. Rethel, aren't you a Pole? I thought almost all Poles were Catholic. Where did you get this Creationist stuff? It's certainly not Catholic teaching on the subject. This is American Protestant/Evangelical stuff. Why would you adopt it?

These people are everywhere now. Asia Africa promoting homophobia the 6000 year old world theory and anti science, Very pro Ultra Jews and very anti Muslim (which is ironic as they are very similar). They are driven by filthy rich (texas oil?) retired people and most of them are of a mature age. They even are working on our little Island writing on the papers mostly and sponsoring a local Pastor. Seems like they are also sponsoring movies and documentaries these days. However they are a very small group and not making much headway in Europe but more effective in Christian communities in Africa. The irony is that they are very similar to Muslim fundamentalists. They don't blow themselves up but encourage the state to incinerate the 'sinners'. If not they console themselves that god will eventually do the job. Very dangerous people.

 

[LeBrok]

Another scary ultra religious movement taking over, in this case Israel.
Haredim, has grown from 30 thousand 60 years ago to 600 thousand today, 13% of Israel population. In this pace they will take over Israel making it a religious state in two generations.

 

[Angela]

Another scary ultra religious movement taking over, in this case Israel.
Haredim, has grown from 30 thousand 60 years ago to 600 thousand today, 13% of Israel population. In this pace they will take over Israel making it a religious state in two generations.

There are secular rabbis: the rabbis of Conservative and Reform temples. Unfortunately, the ultra-orthodox have manipulated the laws so that all decisions on religion in Israel are made by their own rabbis. So, conversions performed by Reform and Conservative rabbis aren't recognized, which means that children born of gentile mothers who were taught and converted by such rabbis in the U.S. are not considered Jews.* It affects the law of return, marriage, divorce, everything. It's all because there are so many political parties that in order to get a governing majority you have to make an alliance with these smaller religious parties. The majority of Israelis had better get together into larger governing parties or they might indeed wind up like Iran.

Amazing that this educated woman thinks it's perfectly ok for her to not only work to support them all, but to cook, clean, do laundry, child care, and everything else so that he can spend the whole day, six days a week, in religious studies. Of course, the government gives them the equivalent of welfare too. In a way it's similar to the situation with the outcast Mormons. A man with 6 wives and 20+ children can't support them all, so the mothers file for welfare. What is the state supposed to do...let children starve?

I do understand what he means about feeling sorry for the young boy, but it's not much different from how the Chinese "tiger mom", as she calls herself, raised her daughters: school, tutors and special classes after school, hours of music lessons, seven days a week, no tv, no play time, no overnights at a friend's house. Of course, at the end of it is "secular" success.

*To some extent this is true in Europe too. The rabbis, even though not ultra-orthodox, are only orthodox, so the choice is orthodoxy or a totally irreligious life.

 

[LABERIA]

I've read somewhere but i do not remember where, that Creationism was responsible for the technological gap between the Soviet Union and the US after the WWII. The Americans became aware of this when they saw the Russians flying in space with Gagarin. And that was precisely the breaking point between the American school system and Creationism. But i don't remember the source.

 

[LABERIA]

I found it:

Creation science
Creation science or scientific creationism[1] is a branch of creationism that claims to provide scientific support for the Genesis creation narrative in the Book of Genesis and disprove or reexplain the scientific facts,[2] theories and scientific paradigms about geology,[3] cosmology, biological evolution,[4][5] archeology,[6][7] history, and linguistics.[8]

History[edit]
Main article: History of creationism
The teaching of evolution was gradually introduced into more and more public high school textbooks in the United States after 1900,[37] but in the aftermath of the First World War the growth of fundamentalist Christianity gave rise to a creationist opposition to such teaching. Legislation prohibiting the teaching of evolution was passed in certain regions, most notably Tennessee's Butler Act of 1925.[38] The Soviet Union's successful launch of Sputnik 1 in 1957 sparked national concern that the science education in public schools was outdated. In 1958, the United States passed National Defense Education Act which introduced new education guidelines for science instruction. With federal grant funding, the Biological Sciences Curriculum Study (BSCS) drafted new standards for the public schools' science textbooks which included the teaching of evolution. Almost half the nation's high schools were using textbooks based on the guidelines of the BSCS soon after they were published in 1963.[39] The Tennessee legislature did not repeal the Butler Act until 1967.[40]

Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_science

 

[Angela]

"Inherit the Wind" is a very famous play and film of the Scopes Trial, where an American teacher in the early part of the 20th century was prosecuted for teaching evolution. It's just fabulous. Spencer Tracy is Clarence Darrow.

This segment is from a cross-examination of the prosecutor: Creationism vs. Evolution
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtNdYsoool8

If you don't change your mind after listening to the above you're just not rational.

The whole film is available for free on you tube and is well worth watching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOf6o-PTjUI

 

[Diomedes]

No need to be so aggressive.

Don't be ashamed of your beliefs and tell us exactly how old the universe is. You can only lose your "good reputation", so it shouldn't be a problem for you...

 

[Diomedes]

Maybe it is somewhere in the Bible. If it is there, Christians are supposed to believe it. Of course now, things stated there are all mystical in a sense and there are truths behind the words. Typical looney kabbalistic stuff.

BTW, I am not sure if Christians should have the Bible in their sacred books.

I don't get it. Rethel, aren't you a Pole? I thought almost all Poles were Catholic. Where did you get this Creationist stuff? It's certainly not Catholic teaching on the subject. This is American Protestant/Evangelical stuff. Why would you adopt it?

 

[Angela]

Maybe it is somewhere in the Bible. If it is there, Christians are supposed to believe it. Of course now, things stated there are all mystical in a sense and there are truths behind the words. Typical looney kabbalistic stuff.

BTW, I am not sure if Christians should have the Bible in their sacred books.

The Bible consists of both the Old and New Testament. How could you be a Christian without at least the New Testament?

Roman Catholicism and mainstream Protestant religions both accept evolution as part of God's plan, and the Old Testament creation stories, of which there are two different ones, by the way, are held to be stories of religion meant to teach that God created the world, not scientific textbooks.

 

[Bergin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjz16xjeBAA

After this thread I am going to watch again Life of Brian.

 

[Diomedes]

The New Testament is alright. I feel that the Torah is Israel specific, which is not relevant to the rest of the world, while the Gospels have a more ecumenical character.

I do not know what these religions believe now, but in the past they believed differently, which of course means that they change their dogma (which is not supposed to change axiomatically). I am not sure how frank that is. At the end of the day, if you cannot maintain the "word of the God" as it is mentioned in the Torah (and it should be specific, because God would not want to trick people with meanings behind words and sentences), then there is no reason for these religions to exist.

The Bible consists of both the Old and New Testament. How could you be a Christian without at least the New Testament?

Roman Catholicism and mainstream Protestant religions both accept evolution as part of God's plan, and the Old Testament creation stories, of which there are two different ones, by the way, are held to be stories of religion meant to teach that God created the world, not scientific textbooks.

 

[Rethel]

As we suspected

Are you in more than one person? etrified:

Not mentioning, that this proof, should be validated by consecutive research of independent scientists and laws of physics.

Try to tell this to the people, who claimed, that capitalism
is vetter and more sufficient than communism in Soviet
Union or north Korea. Interesting, how many "consecutive
research of independent scientists" would you find there.

All you have are myths, conspiracies and video with attempts of poking holes in science. That's all you have!

You on the other habd have only one side view, showing
you only what you want to hear. Ready interpretations
and hypothesis, build on other hypothesis on and on.

Well, you are lost, because bible can't explain the complexity of the world, but only science does.

What? etrified:

How Bible can't explain complexity of the world?
Does she claim, that the World is not complex? etrified:

We know science and it makes a perfect sense for us.

Science is one thing, ideology is another.
Do not confuse these two. And you, I know,
that you only choose this, what makes a sense
for you - becasue you want some things to be true.

You believe in creationism and science doesn't make sense for you.

And again, you are inputing your imagination to me.

And you say that we must be wrong. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

Are you sure, that you are right? How so?

Nope. You are the guy who believes in old biblical explanation of the world. The old and traditional creationism. Heliocentrism theory was confirmed through centuries, again and again, by real science. On other hand geocentrism was never ever confirmed. That's why we know that heliocentrism works and is the only true explanation.

You would surely know 500 years ago, that heliocentrism was confirmed
through centuries again and again, and then, you would be so genius, that
you would know, that confirmed geocentrism was not confirmed, and you
would also know 500 years ago, why people from early 2000s know why
heliocentirism works... Interesting... you cannot even understand the simple
temporal exmaple, but you claim to understand whole modern sicence. etrified:

This is how science works, remember. On top of it heliocentrism is in agreement with laws of phisics, relativity and evolution of the universe. All of which were confirmed again and again. All our most complicated machines, computers and satellites work according to these laws and models. This is how we know this science is good and true!!!

Yea, sure, and you would know this 500 years ago...

But:

"[A]ll this evidence that the universe looks the same whichever direction we look in might seem to suggest there is something special about our place in the universe. In particular, it might seem that if we observe all other galaxies to be moving away from us, then we must be at the center of the universe[...] We [reject] it only on grounds of modesty" - Stephen Hawking in A Brief History of Time


So, don;t be so sure... your guru is not.

In case your forgot history lessen, the christian biblical "scientists", were the once burning people for not believing in creationism and for supporting heliocentrism, and of course atheists like myself.

Nope. If it would be true, then Copernicus would be burned.
He not only was not burned, but he was a priest, who occiupy
coupld of important church offices. And his books were printing
without problems. Galileo was going to be burn for interpretations
of the Bible - for religion heresy - but not for scientific theories.
One atheist in Poland was behaded by civil authority for publishing
about atheism, what could ruin social order, and church was against
it - no fire, no church involved, no mass persecution.

You yourself belive in myths, but accuse others...

The funnies thing is that you think you are in a vanguard of new and true science, because it is based in bible. This is delusion. You are prescribing to old biblical beliefs and traditions which kept Europe in Dark Ages till onset of science in Renaissance. You are the typical anti-science religious zealot who prosecuted people of science, and all "the different".

As above. It seems you have no idea about medieval science and
reasons, why Middles Ages are called "dark ages". Renaissance my
dear, was a product of Bible beliving people, who were much more
zealous in burnung heretics, than medieval church ever. You again
showed how mythical your "science" is.

You are also wrong about "biblical science" becasue such thing does
not exist. You seems also not know, what creationism is really about.
How pity...

I'm using science of genome and admixtures to model populations of ancient dna. Many more around Eupedia pages.

It has nothing to do with evolution and long periods of time.
Aristotle also was a deep thinking man, but this what he created is silly today.
But we are talking, not about your philosophy, but about origin of the world,
and real possibilities to check it. You are constantly escaping somewhere else.

 

[Rethel]

I don't get it. Rethel, aren't you a Pole? I thought almost all Poles were Catholic. Where did you get this Creationist stuff? It's certainly not Catholic teaching on the subject. This is American Protestant/Evangelical stuff. Why would you adopt it?

I don't get it. Angela, aren't you living in USA? I thought almost all Americans were Evangelists.
Where did you get this evolutionist stuff? It's certainly not evangelical teaching on the subject.
This is leftist atheistic stuff. Why would you adopt it?

It's certainly not Catholic teaching on the subject.

It depends which catholic are you talking with.
There are even catholics geocentrists!

 

[Rethel]

How is it an insult to anyone?

Have you ever wondered, if All Mighty God can create a rock so big that even he can't lift?

It is always better, than your beliefs that nothing exploded,
the rock became alive on it's own turning into ape who did
start to think, that is clever and evolved enaugh to discover
the truth which lies beyond this Universe...

Btw, of course God can create such rock, and at the same time
can pick it up with one finger. BUT you forgot one thing: GOD IS
NOT MATERIAL. You do not have to show us, how evolutionists
are brainless. It is obvious without it.

 

[Rethel]

Another scary ultra religious movement taking over, in this case Israel.
Haredim, has grown from 30 thousand 60 years ago to 600 thousand today, 13% of Israel population. In this pace they will take over Israel making it a religious state in two generations.

So, according to your world view, it is proof that religion is more beneficial
and higher eveolved than atheism. Atheists will just extinct sooner or later.
It also means, that atheism has to be corelated with not beneficial mutation,
but rligiousity - with very beneficial mutation. So, you just prooved, that even
by evolutionary means, atheism is stupid and has to extinct, becasue can be
replaced easly even by most silly and retarded sects...

 

[Rethel]

Roman Catholicism and mainstream Protestant religions both accept evolution as part of God's plan,

So they will burn.

and the Old Testament creation stories, of which there are two different ones,

No, there are not.
So called "second" is about Eden, not about whole world.

by the way, are held to be stories of religion meant to teach that God created the world, not scientific textbooks.

And what if he did?

 

[Rethel]

Here, about people, who were fired for discovering soft
tissues of dinosaurs, and about how laboratory did not
want 23,000 dollars for testing dinosaurs bones for C14,
and how an atheist is close minded and furious about it...

 

[Angela]

I don't get it. Angela, aren't you living in USA? I thought almost all Americans were Evangelists.
Where did you get this evolutionist stuff? It's certainly not evangelical teaching on the subject.
This is leftist atheistic stuff. Why would you adopt it?



It depends which catholic are you talking with.
There are even catholics geocentrists!

Evangelicals are a decided minority in the U.S., mostly found in the south and rural communities in the west, not in major population areas. Evolution is taught in every public school in the U.S.

It is also taught in every Catholic school in the U.S., since the Church hasn't had a problem with evolution for decades. Where on earth have you been?

See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_and_the_Catholic_Church

"Bishop Francis X. DiLorenzo of Richmond, chair of the Committee on Science and Human Values, wrote in a letter sent to all U.S. bishops in December 2004: "Catholic schools should continue teaching evolution as a scientific theory backed by convincing evidence. At the same time, Catholic parents whose children are in public schools should ensure that their children are also receiving appropriate catechesis at home and in the parish on God as Creator. ""