Do feminists hate househusbands THEY created?

I see no one has yet answered my questions, as is usually the case, except for paying a lower class woman to do it all including being a "mother" to the children.

How about the following...it's worked out very well for a family member...

Wife started out a practicing oncologist, and husband was an emergency room doctor with various esoteric specialties. When the children came, it was either turn over the parenting to a nanny and getting cleaning services, or come up with something more creative.

They decided that the woman would take a research job instead, although it was a wrench, and negotiate a four day, 10 hour a day minimum work schedule. He would do the same. They still needed to pay for help with all the household chores, but one of them would always be home. They overlapped one day a week, Sunday.

I think it was an inspired solution. They've been married thirty years and have raised two very intelligent, very accomplished daughters.

It can be done.
 
One crucial question someone should ask here is whether feminism has actually added any value to women, first and foremost, and secondly to our society. A following question pertains to the role of feminism per se in western type societies vis-a-vis the rest of the world.
 
One crucial question someone should ask here is whether feminism has actually added any value to women, first and foremost, and secondly to our society. A following question pertains to the role of feminism per se in western type societies vis-a-vis the rest of the world.

Well, I've never belonged to any "feminist" organizations, and there's lots I disagree with in terms of the Betty Friedans and Gloria Steinams of the world, but I absolutely would never agree to turning back the clock.

The changes in western societies mean that I was able to go to university, get advanced degrees after that, and pursue the profession of my choice, gaining a lot of intellectual and even emotional satisfaction, and contributing positively, I believe, to my community and society in general.

Then there are the practical aspects: I was paid handsomely for my work, which meant that our economic security was increased, and even luxuries were not beyond us. In addition, had things not gone so well, had my husband become ill, or, God forbid, died, or had I made a disastrous choice and he turned out to be an alcoholic or drug user, a gambler or abuser of me or our children, I could easily have supported myself and them. On top of all of that, I made my father very happy and proud by fulfilling some of his dreams for me.

The only downside was that I had to work very hard, be very organized, and I missed out on some sleep when they were younger. It was all worth it, and I wouldn't change it at all.

I don't understand what kind of communities some of you must live in that this all seems so foreign. It's quite commonplace in my world, and I assure you I don't know a single woman who would turn back the clock.

As to value to society, what about all the contributions of female scientists, doctors, jurists, professors and on and on...Do they mean nothing? And no, I don't think mothers working outside the home has ruined their children. Children raised by frustrated, unhappy women aren't going to do well. As for the so-called "good old days" on the farm, if anyone is under the illusion that farm women responsible for going out into the fields as well as taking care of the chickens, the cows, the house plot, the cooking, cleaning, and laundry for perhaps twelve people, and the supervision of ten children spent very much quality time with those kids they are much mistaken. Those kids basically reared each other or themselves and the results were by no means great.

Oh, and thank God for another invention that changed women's lives: birth control. No more pregnancies every 12 or 18 months until body, mind and heart are all shredded. Don't think any woman would want to get rid of that either.
 
There are a lot of crossing opinions in this thread, so let's tread carefully. Not all men are the same and not all women are the same.

In no way do I advocate forcing women out of the workforce or chaining them to stoves. Women have a choice for the life they want to live and men also have a choice.

It is true that macho men are no longer required to protect women and children from other men nearly as much. We have police that do that for us, or at least attempt it.

We have machinery for any labor intensive tasks. Why then do the hunks get the chicks so much more easily? Muscles are so passe! Women are still attracted to strong men through biological evolution. Look at the ridiculous height preferences. Women prefer taller men. That is absolutely useless in modern society but the preference springs from somewhere in that brain.

It's not only strength though, but what that strength represents and it is only one component of what a lot of women are naturally attracted to: POWER. Women evolved to be choosy because they can carry one man's baby, so it should be the best man they can find. Men just want to spread their seed to as many women as possible and many men struggle with this urge. When I have seen women cheat it has usually been with a perceived "better" than what they had. I've seen men cheat with women less attractive than what they have.

Men overwhelmingly prefer youth and beauty. Women like looks but need to decide if you have the right attitude, demeanor, etc to go with it. They don't want to get conned by a good looking fool. This is part of the reason women wear makeup and try to look younger. There is either a conscious or subconscious awareness of the need to be pretty and young.

The above generalization illustrates the popularity of boss/subordinate affairs.

Attraction is felt at a base level in the subconscious. It cannot be arrived at logically or through negotiation. Keeping the attraction of a mate should be a priority of any long-term relationship. Women and men need to understand that they are different from each other and that what might work for one might not work for the other to maintain harmonious relations.

Men need to stay healthy and keep up the air of physical strength. They need to stand up for themselves rather than be submissive unless you are with a rare woman that prefers it. They need to strive for professional/financial achievement. Never set yourself out to pasture or rest on your laurels.

Women need to stay healthy and attend their beauty. They don't have to live up to biological standards of success in the community to keep their man attracted.


Angela made a great point about two doctors working together to make a wealthy and successful modern family. There is a key here, there was no "kept" man. I have seen "kept" men achieve the marital success of long-term, long-distance relationships. We all think we can make it work but it circles back around to biology and our inability to control our attraction using logic. I'm not saying it's fair or equitable, just that it tends to be true in a broad swathe of people. That is key.

Angela is a rare breed indeed - I can see why she would be offended by some things in this thread. There's many other points I could make regarding male/female psychological differences but I'll leave it there.

Relationships are hard enough work. Introducing a "kept" man scenario makes it much harder for most people. Some people will be fine.
 
I have no idea what that even means. Is a female attorney, prosecutor, judge, acting completely like a male? How about a cancer specialist? What about a university college professor, or, given our interests, a geneticist? Except for the last, those are jobs held by women in my own family. Let's take it down a notch. What about a teacher, a nurse, a social worker? Would pursuing these professions and working at them mean a reversal of gender roles?
No, of course not. Did my comment gave you this impression? When I speak about changing roles I specifically speak about the characteristic features of the respective genders such as the behave. But also there are very few jobs that only fit one specfic gender better. But none of the above mentioned belong to these jobs I am thinking off.

Are you proposing to bar women from professions like this? If you're not, how, precisely, would that work in your preferred scheme? Who would stay home with the children all day? Who would do the laundry, food shopping, cooking, cleaning? Women can't work 24 hours a day, you know, although it sometimes seems like it. In order to not be accused of switching her "gender role" would she have to come home and do all that work on top of her job? What, precisely, would her husband be doing after coming home from work? Oh wait, what about child care? Who is going to care for them?
If the women has a job that requires equal times of work. Than both parents have to look after the children in part time. If necessary there are other ways too. But I am convinced even if the women has the better job the moment she is the only one bringing money in she will lose interest in her partner. I am speaking of experience, a very good friend of mine who I know since my childhood was left alone by his girlfriend with these arguments.

1. You are not earning enough money
2. You are too childish
3. I feel like I have to take care of you

To the backstory they both work at the same place, he was in his position above her and made it for her possible to reach higher position in her job. for over 2 years he brought most money home. Just 1 year she overtook his position in this regard and completely lost her interest in him.

Sounds familiar? Take a look at the stories in the opening post again. This is why I commented on this thread because I have seen exactly the same happen to my friend (who is Russian by the way).


Oh, and I generally think it's a better idea to ask women what they want than to assume you know what they want or what's best for them. And yes, we most certainly know when a relationship is not working.

Nah sorry Angela, I am not going to ask a women what she wants, not because I don't care of her opinion but because that is the first wrong step you could do as a man. I rather observe how she acts and make my decisions around her reaction. That will suprise her more and give a better response. ;)


Of course all my arguments are based on my experience and they don't necessary reflect what all women think.
 
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There are a lot of crossing opinions in this thread, so let's tread carefully. Not all men are the same and not all women are the same.

In no way do I advocate forcing women out of the workforce or chaining them to stoves. Women have a choice for the life they want to live and men also have a choice.

It is true that macho men are no longer required to protect women and children from other men nearly as much. We have police that do that for us, or at least attempt it.

We have machinery for any labor intensive tasks. Why then do the hunks get the chicks so much more easily? Muscles are so passe! Women are still attracted to strong men through biological evolution. Look at the ridiculous height preferences. Women prefer taller men. That is absolutely useless in modern society but the preference springs from somewhere in that brain.

It's not only strength though, but what that strength represents and it is only one component of what a lot of women are naturally attracted to: POWER. Women evolved to be choosy because they can carry one man's baby, so it should be the best man they can find. Men just want to spread their seed to as many women as possible and many men struggle with this urge. When I have seen women cheat it has usually been with a perceived "better" than what they had. I've seen men cheat with women less attractive than what they have.

Men overwhelmingly prefer youth and beauty. Women like looks but need to decide if you have the right attitude, demeanor, etc to go with it. They don't want to get conned by a good looking fool. This is part of the reason women wear makeup and try to look younger. There is either a conscious or subconscious awareness of the need to be pretty and young.

The above generalization illustrates the popularity of boss/subordinate affairs.

Attraction is felt at a base level in the subconscious. It cannot be arrived at logically or through negotiation. Keeping the attraction of a mate should be a priority of any long-term relationship. Women and men need to understand that they are different from each other and that what might work for one might not work for the other to maintain harmonious relations.

Men need to stay healthy and keep up the air of physical strength. They need to stand up for themselves rather than be submissive unless you are with a rare woman that prefers it. They need to strive for professional/financial achievement. Never set yourself out to pasture or rest on your laurels.

Women need to stay healthy and attend their beauty. They don't have to live up to biological standards of success in the community to keep their man attracted.


Angela made a great point about two doctors working together to make a wealthy and successful modern family. There is a key here, there was no "kept" man. I have seen "kept" men achieve the marital success of long-term, long-distance relationships. We all think we can make it work but it circles back around to biology and our inability to control our attraction using logic. I'm not saying it's fair or equitable, just that it tends to be true in a broad swathe of people. That is key.

Angela is a rare breed indeed - I can see why she would be offended by some things in this thread. There's many other points I could make regarding male/female psychological differences but I'll leave it there.

Relationships are hard enough work. Introducing a "kept" man scenario makes it much harder for most people. Some people will be fine.

Of course, I'd like to think I'm special, one of a kind. Don't we all? Anyway, my father certainly thought so, and my husband as well, most of the time, but I assure you that in terms of blending a career with marriage and parenthood I'm not at all rare. In my family of cousins we have, as I said, a female attorney/prosecutor, a doctor who is a cancer specialist, a professor, a couple of teachers, a guidance counselor, a psychologist, a couple of businesswomen, and on and on. In my neighborhood there are a couple of female doctors, a couple of college professors, a currency trader, a couple of women who work for a hedge fund, a couple of accountants, and what seems like dozens of lawyers, some at extremely prestigious firms. All have worked full time and yet raised children as well. Have they achieved as much professionally as they might have if they didn't have children? No, to be honest most of them didn't, and that includes me, because sacrifices have to be made, and usually women make more of them, sometimes choosing to go off partner track or not going after the next promotion or big position.

That doesn't mean that you want to give up your work, and none of these husbands would ask it of their wives. A lot of the younger men, in particular, have no interest in working eighteen hours a day so that their wives can stay home. They want someone to help with the finances. In my case, my father and my husband actually pushed me further than I might have gone on my own. It was my father's belief that you make use of the brains God gave you, no matter who you are.

As for the attractiveness part...it's undoubtedly part of the equation for both parties. However, it hasn't been my experience that intelligent, highly educated men seek out pretty imbeciles when it comes time to marry. Most of the time, they pick a woman they met at school or work, who has, therefore, the same kind of educational background. That's certainly the case for my family members and in my neighborhood. There are very few mismatches of that sort, and the few that there are usually end in divorce. Some men also look for women who are kind and compassionate, honest and sincere, come from a similar background, with similar values, who will fit in with their families. I think you sell men short to think all they are looking for is looks. That isn't what I see.

As time passes, of course, if you have a brain in your head you try to remain fit and attractive, not just for your partner, but for your own self-respect. In that respect, the women I know actually do a far better job on average than their husbands. However, no one looks exactly the same at 45 as at 25. It's life. If a woman married a man who is so superficial that at that point he wants to turn in his wife for a younger model, she chose badly and has to deal with the consequences. As I would advise leaving him with barely the shirt on his back, so does he. :)

There are the other kinds of men, and some women as well, the perpetual cheaters. The issue then is them, not the cheated upon spouse. I know a woman very well who unfortunately married a man like that. She was perpetually on a diet, got breast implants, a tummy tuck after the kids, injections, was at the gym as much as she could be, and spent hours and tons of money at the spa and salons. It worked in the sense that she was gorgeous and looked fifteen years younger than her age, but you know what, he still cheated. He would have done it no matter which woman he married and what she looked like. Despite all the bravado, he was a very insecure guy, and that's how he filled his void. Finally, she got sick of it, left, and is much happier. He's now cheating on wife number two. :)

The trick is to have a very sound idea of who you are and what you want from a spouse, and to be a very good judge of character when choosing a mate. Figure out who this other person is too, what makes him or her tick, how they are with work colleagues, and most importantly, with family. Don't ignore any red flags. Physical attractiveness is only one part of the package; you have to like and respect the other person too.

I just came back to this after a break. Related to all of this, when I was first married, my husband and I were at the home of another couple. The woman was a writer, very witty, and very funny. Her husband half jokingly started a discussion about this, and how men are hunters, and modern society has no room for that. After letting him wax prolific for awhile, she said, ok. Mr. Hunter, go hunt me a pizza! It says it in a nutshell. :)

I wonder if Bill Gates has muscles? Does his wife care? :) I would, but that's me. Looks have always mattered to me, perhaps too much so.
 
I don't know if you guys notice the same tendency,
but most of my male friends are looking for a stable relation with a divorced woman (possibly already having a child).
It makes things much easier and no clock is ticking.

The woman of the thread is actually a good example.
Would you pick her before or after the divorce?
 
I don't know if you guys notice the same tendency,
but most of my male friends are looking for a stable relation with a divorced woman (possibly already having a child).
It makes things much easier and no clock is ticking.

The woman of the thread is actually a good example.
Would you pick her before or after the divorce?

I don't get it. Why would someone want a divorced woman who has already failed once at marriage, and why would he want to raise someone else's child?

From the woman's point of view, I don't know know how divorced women bring another man into the house so blithely. Maybe my job has warped me, but I would never do it. Dating, enjoying yourself is fine, but I'd be very leery of sleep overs, marriage, or living together until the kids are 18 and out. Sorry, but I'd be particularly leery of any man who said he wanted a ready made family.
 
I know few who hooked up with successful women for support and sex. They have never been fathers, or caring fathers. Still Peter-Panning, I guess, living life without much effort and responsibilities.
 
I don't get it. Why would someone want a divorced woman who has already failed once at marriage, and why would he want to raise someone else's child?

From the woman's point of view, I don't know know how divorced women bring another man into the house so blithely. Maybe my job has warped me, but I would never do it. Dating, enjoying yourself is fine, but I'd be very leery of sleep overs, marriage, or living together until the kids are 18 and out. Sorry, but I'd be particularly leery of any man who said he wanted a ready made family.

What's wrong with marrying a divorced woman if she's divorced due to an abusive husband (and she's an innocent little angel who wouldn't harm anyone)? I'd go for her if she's my type. Why not? Seriously, why not?

If she were to marry me (or at least be my bae) I would buy her flowers, perfume, dresses, a membership to Curves, a cross or dream catcher she can hang from her rear view mirror, a smoothie machine, a gluten free cook book, a watering can,etc...
 
I don't get it. Why would someone want a divorced woman who has already failed once at marriage, and why would he want to raise someone else's child?

From the woman's point of view, I don't know know how divorced women bring another man into the house so blithely. Maybe my job has warped me, but I would never do it. Dating, enjoying yourself is fine, but I'd be very leery of sleep overs, marriage, or living together until the kids are 18 and out. Sorry, but I'd be particularly leery of any man who said he wanted a ready made family.

Once upon a time, virginity was considered a great value in a woman.
By now only a few macho would go for a sexually inexperienced partner .


Is it so stupid to find logic in a partner that:

- has already made the marriage experience ,
- went through pre/post pregnancy trauma,
- knows how to deal with a child, and
- knows how to be independent and make independent choices

?


I was not talking about playing around, but actually second marriage and kids.
 
Once upon a time, virginity was considered a great value in a woman.
By now only a few macho would go for a sexually inexperienced partner .


Is it so stupid to find logic in a partner that:

- has already made the marriage experience ,
- went through pre/post pregnancy trauma,
- knows how to deal with a child, and
- knows how to be independent and make independent choices

?


I was not talking about playing around, but actually second marriage and kids.

Bergin, I never said it was stupid. I said I didn't understand it.

I'd just say that in this day and age a woman doesn't need to have been married to have some sexual experience, if that's a concern. Also, having already had some experience in running a household or raising a child doesn't necessarily mean that a particular woman is any good at it, although it's pretty easily determined.

So, if the woman in question is steady, runs a nice home, and is a good mother, I could see the logic in preferring her to some giddy, young girl who doesn't know what the heck she really wants.

I'd just say that divorce is not always the result of the husband's failings. Sometimes it takes "two to tango" as they say, and there's plenty of blame to go around. I've also known some women who were absolute horrors, and my thought was always that I had no idea why he stuck around, other than the children. So, there's that as well that has to be figured out.

Anyway, I was just curious as to the reasoning.
 
Bergin, I never said it was stupid. I said I didn't understand it.

I'd just say that in this day and age a woman doesn't need to have been married to have some sexual experience, if that's a concern. Also, having already had some experience in running a household or raising a child doesn't necessarily mean that a particular woman is any good at it, although it's pretty easily determined.

So, if the woman in question is steady, runs a nice home, and is a good mother, I could see the logic in preferring her to some giddy, young girl who doesn't know what the heck she really wants.

I'd just say that divorce is not always the result of the husband's failings. Sometimes it takes "two to tango" as they say, and there's plenty of blame to go around. I've also known some women who were absolute horrors, and my thought was always that I had no idea why he stuck around, other than the children. So, there's that as well that has to be figured out.

Anyway, I was just curious as to the reasoning.

Angela I agree with what you are saying.
Clearly this is a just discussion and not real life.

The reasoning:
Being a wife and a mother is a great school of life.
I think the same holds true also for a husband and father (maybe more).
The metamorphosis (and a bit of fun):

As a
honeymooning young woman who didn't know you were better off eating in foreign restaurants when in England, I had one horrific dinner after another. On the sixth night, when I ordered chicken and vegetables, and got a soggy mess of gelatinous chicken and soppy, tasteless vegetables (obviously they just threw everything into a pot of boiling water), I started to cry and demanded to go back to France.


Considering that her son runs it I thought it would be safe to order pasta that had a tomato based sauce on it. I was wrong: the sauce was absolutely tasteless except for the acidity, which was overpowering. I called the waiter over, told him I wouldn't eat it and we wouldn't be paying for it, and if the "chef" and "manager" wanted to know why I'd be happy to tell them. I left the waiter a tip, because of course none of it was his fault, and we left. I left a terrible review on every blog I could find, but to no avail.
 
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Angela I agree with what you are saying.
Clearly this is a just discussion and not real life.

The reasoning:
Being a wife and a mother is a great school of life.
I think the same holds true also for a husband and father (maybe more).
The metamorphosis (and a bit of fun):

As a
honeymooning young woman who didn't know you were better off eating in foreign restaurants when in England, I had one horrific dinner after another. On the sixth night, when I ordered chicken and vegetables, and got a soggy mess of gelatinous chicken and soppy, tasteless vegetables (obviously they just threw everything into a pot of boiling water), I started to cry and demanded to go back to France.


Considering that her son runs it I thought it would be safe to order pasta that had a tomato based sauce on it. I was wrong: the sauce was absolutely tasteless except for the acidity, which was overpowering. I called the waiter over, told him I wouldn't eat it and we wouldn't be paying for it, and if the "chef" and "manager" wanted to know why I'd be happy to tell them. I left the waiter a tip, because of course none of it was his fault, and we left. I left a terrible review on every blog I could find, but to no avail.

You remembered it! How nice. :) That was Becco near Times Square in NYC. I still get mad every time I think about it. Like most Italians and certainly the French, I take food seriously.

You're right...I changed a lot with the years, but then I was a 21 year old baby when I got married, going straight from my father to my husband. Still, it wasn't being a wife that changed me, so much. It was the children, and maybe even more so my job.

My only problem as a wife and mother, for me, not for my family, was that in addition to trying to keep a career on track, I also wanted a spotless, beautiful home and the same kinds of meals on the table as my mother had provided. Then, throw in entertaining for my husband's business, and homework, children's activities, gardening, etc. However, in the early years my husband did most of the cleaning and food shopping, and later on we were able to get some help. All the cooking, decorating, gardening, entertaining, homework, Parent-Teacher Association were all on me, though, and it stayed that way. As time passed, I did take on less onerous jobs, and he worked like a demon. Fair is fair. Still, sometimes I thought I'd never get a full night's sleep again! :)

Well, maybe in some ways it wasn't so good for my family, either. My son, in particular, is spoiled rotten. When he was very little he would usually refuse to eat at other people's houses. When he would come home he'd say, "It wasn't delicious, mommy." Not that he isn't a good cook himself, but he's turned off if he goes to a woman's apartment and it's a mess and there's nothing in the refrigerator, which is usually the case. I'm going to be ancient by the time he gets married. As for my daughter, she says we're a package deal. Any man she marries has to agree to what is called here a mother/daughter house. :) God spare us from that scenario. I could have had that with my parents, but my mother was a saint, and my dad was very mellow as he got older; I'm not a saint, and my daughter is headstrong, willful and domineering like her father, so it would definitely not work. A house down the block would be nice, though. See, I haven't really become American, even after all these years.
 
I don't think feminists ever wanted a husband or a partner. Their energy is all focused on work and competition with the other gender. Feminists desire to reform every cultural institution from family planning to house work. If there was a surgery which can change a woman to man I'd make a bet on how many woman would apply for it. Probably half or even more. We live in a society which was created by industrialists and snake oil salesmen and their desire were to reshape family and gender roles.
Women had to give up their traditional customs and households for profit and competition. Time for family planning is less and lost it's first priority for career and short time love.
 
I don't think feminists ever wanted a husband or a partner. Their energy is all focused on work and competition with the other gender. Feminists desire to reform every cultural institution from family planning to house work. If there was a surgery which can change a woman to man I'd make a bet on how many woman would apply for it. Probably half or even more. We live in a society which was created by industrialists and snake oil salesmen and their desire were to reshape family and gender roles.
Women had to give up their traditional customs and households for profit and competition. Time for family planning is less and lost it's first priority for career and short time love.

In my opinion, all women (feminist or not) can't endure a whining man that complains against the world. That has not changed over time.
It is all about being a strong person, but a pack mentality, a big car, aggressiveness, jealousy, and complaining, are typically signs of the opposite (lack of self-confidence).


Citing my own sister:
It is so damn hard to find a man that doesn't disappoint you even after 10 minutes. At the first sight of another male, most will get intimidated, defensive, or frustrated, instead of calmly understanding how proud they have to feel. And once it happen all the interest is completely gone.


I hope I don't offend you, but don't be scared of feminists so easily, they don't bite.
 
@Angela

Wow, was your meal that traumatizing? (If it was, it's ok, not judging you) I guess the simple fact that you went off to post bad reviews on whatever review site you could find indicates that it was :) ! Was the price as rediculous as the quality?

I'm just picturing you sitting there staring intensely at the screen with a furious demeanor pounding the keyboard while on Yelp :) !!

But seriously, was it just the acidity that turned you off or was there more to this?
 
@Angela

Wow, was your meal that traumatizing? (If it was, it's ok, not judging you) I guess the simple fact that you went off to post bad reviews on whatever review site you could find indicates that it was :) ! Was the price as rediculous as the quality?

I'm just picturing you sitting there staring intensely at the screen with a furious demeanor pounding the keyboard while on Yelp :)

But seriously, was it just the acidity that turned you off or was there more to this?

Yes, I did post on Yelp, as well as others. :) It wasn't traumatizing, but it was certainly annoying.

The prices aren't like the two and three star restaurants, of course, but at 14 dollars for a starter plate of pasta it had better be edible! The glop they served me was not al dente, it was acidic, which they would have known and been able to fix if anyone had bothered to taste the sauce, and it was basically tasteless. Oh, and it wasn't hot. In other words, a mess.

This is it:
12183939_Xp1Nr0FVTKmyKiwwZrwAkdZdnaHIycMtdT9Y3e_jXyw.jpg


Spaghetti al pomodoro is a very simple dish, but precisely because it's so simple, each and every ingredient has to be of the highest quality. For the
"classic" recipe you need sweet, top quality tomatoes either fresh, in which case it's best to use cherry tomatoes imo, or peeled tomatoes, San Marzano if possible, and excellent olive oil and basil. If, for some reason, the tomatoes are acidic, you can resort to adding a little sugar if necessary. You also have to be sure you salt everything enough, including the water for boiling the pasta, and you put enough oil, for goodness' sakes. The taste has to come from somewhere.

I suppose I shouldn't have ordered it. When I make it myself I follow our recipe, which means using the peeled, canned tomatoes, a soffrito of carrot, celery and onion in it as well as one sprig of garlic and basil; I like the taste much better, and the onion and carrot take care of any acidity.

Sort of like this...the only thing I would change is that with both types I would include one clove of garlic with the green spine removed (and then take it out when golden). He's absolutely right...you have to use warm plates. And serve it immediately before it gets cold!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp3WqY3P0pM


When I post letters to the editor or even reviews, I channel my inner Oriana Fallaci. Nobody messed with her. :) She's the Italian journalist who complained to Khomeini about women having to wear chadors, and when he said it had nothing to do with her, it only applied to their women, she said something like "Great! So I don't have to wear this medieval rag" and yanked it off.

foto-oriana-fallaci-279852.jpg


The gaze only became more withering with age...She certainly didn't tolerate fools, as I so often have to do...I have to practice "the look"...I seem too kind and compassionate most of the time, especially in my private life...easy to take advantage of...
Oriana_Fallaci_2.jpg
 
14 bucks for that???? That's barely enough to feed an anorexic chicken!!!! Around me, you can get a serving of pasta that would fill an elephant at that price!!!
There's a site called ripoffreport.com. If you haven't been there, it's never too late to use this platform and protect others from this snake oil kiosk.

And as far as quality assurance is concerned, every 1-3 starred restaurant needs to execute a davef test...if the item doesn't satisfy my palate (measured by the concentration of seratonin and dopamine released by my brain) the chef is automatically fired. 4-5 star restaurants would be better off with the Angela test! If this becomes a reality, lower chefs who perform poorly would tremble in fear when they see me escorted by their managers. They know the tale of the dreaded davef.

It should be easy for any chef to pass the davef test ..which is why you should avoid any restaurant caled "Davef's"...I can see it now...you running into my office to complain...moments later you write a bad review complaining about the food and the fact that the owner was found asleep, playing chess, etc...lol
 

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