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Thread: "The Game of Thrones"

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    Wow, wow, wow. Last night's episode sums up what I (and many people) like about GoT. It was absolutely riveting. Slow paced, no action, mainly conversations and character development, heavy and gloomy atmosphere… yet I was on the edge of my seat for the whole hour.
    What a gripping episode, full of emotional intensity and a palpable sense of dread and urgency permeating every scene. The night setting and the indoors scenes with candle/fire light, the eerie atmosphere, the play of light and shadows, the sense of intimacy and poignancy you get from the interactions between the characters… especially given that half of them are probably going to die in the next episode. It was pure gold, first class episode. 10/10.
    And we got to get a gimpse of Ghost

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by TardisBlue View Post
    Wow, wow, wow. Last night's episode sums up what I (and many people) like about GoT. It was absolutely riveting. Slow paced, no action, mainly conversations and character development, heavy and gloomy atmosphere… yet I was on the edge of my seat for the whole hour.
    What a gripping episode, full of emotional intensity and a palpable sense of dread and urgency permeating every scene. The night setting and the indoors scenes with candle/fire light, the eerie atmosphere, the play of light and shadows, the sense of intimacy and poignancy you get from the interactions between the characters… especially given that half of them are probably going to die in the next episode. It was pure gold, first class episode. 10/10.
    And we got to get a gimpse of Ghost
    Took the words right out of my mouth. :) I was riveted too. This is one I'll watch again.

    Just saw a behind the scenes video and the director was talking about how it was so important to him that each character be given "space" in this episode before the battle, because everyone loves them so much. He almost broke down crying.

    When the creators of a show are just as in love with the characters and the story as the viewers, that's when you get great art.

    I so don't want them to die, but die most of them will.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Interesting that no one has commented on episode three. Kind of a let down that the chief bugaboo since the opening sequence of the series is so suddenly gone. I know the show likes to up-end expectations, but the rest of the series now seems like anti-climax.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Interesting that no one has commented on episode three. Kind of a let down that the chief bugaboo since the opening sequence of the series is so suddenly gone. I know the show likes to up-end expectations, but the rest of the series now seems like anti-climax.
    Couldn't agree more. That's one of the reasons I haven't commented. :)

    I don't mean to say it wasn't a great episode in a lot of ways imo: the battle sequences, the character exposition, the suspense, all of that.

    In addition to your point, I'm disappointed that they picked Arya to kill the Night King. I thought it was supposed to be about the Prince Who Was Promised who would save the world. Evil as Cersei is, that isn't'wasn't the existential threat, and Arya is not the Prince or Princess who was promised. She's more like a ninja girl suddenly leaping to the rescue.

    Ever since they ran out of source material I haven't been as happy with the show. Maybe I'm short changing them, but it's almost like "let's make fantasy politically correct now and let the girl or young woman save the day." She would be totally unfit to rule Westeros. The only one who should rule is the one who doesn't want it and hates killing, as much as he might be good at it.

    Now I know why there were all those episodes of Arya training. I thought they were boring. Only ones I skimmed through after taping the show.

    Plus, it was too damn dark even after I used the settings to lighten it as much as possible. I couldn't tell what was happening in the air.

    I'll still watch it, but I'm not expecting much.



    I had the same reaction to "The Walking Dead". It was great in the beginning and then clunk. As it went on and got past the half way mark it was as if suddenly the local PTA was writing the scripts. I half expected them to have a training session on bullying.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    My chief disappointment has been the number of dead story lines. What about the dire wolves, the ability of the Starks, and some north of the wall, to mind meld with animals, the catacombs under Winterfell, and what the heck has Bran been doing? He supposedly knows everything that has ever happened, why doesn’t he share this info?

    There’s a new thread for you, catalog the number of forgotten plot lines in GOT.

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    season 8 is just a fast bad screenplay, to end the series,

    Catapults outside the wall
    , coffee drinks, total black for many sec',
    most silly death of frozen zombies, etc

    the main thing I will always say

    IT IS BRAN THE PATHETIC
    He knows all, But never say who made him like this,
    He enjoys his status, as revenging all others.
    simply outrageous,

    Last edited by Yetos; 06-05-19 at 11:06.
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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    My chief disappointment has been the number of dead story lines. What about the dire wolves, the ability of the Starks, and some north of the wall, to mind meld with animals, the catacombs under Winterfell, and what the heck has Bran been doing? He supposedly knows everything that has ever happened, why doesn’t he share this info?

    There’s a new thread for you, catalog the number of forgotten plot lines in GOT.
    They would probably need another season or two, which would be great with me, but maybe the show runners, after ten years, want to move on.

    I think either Arya or Jaime will kill Cersei. Maybe Jaime will try to protect her, and gets killed first. Jon will kill Daenerys, but he won't be king. He'll go north of the Wall to the Wildlings.

    So who will rule? Maybe Sansa and Tyrion. Stark and Lanister.

    It's not what I would like to happen, though. Sansa has become Littlefinger Lite, and Tyrion likes his drink too much. She's as cold as a snake and would just completely dominate him.

    I just think the foreshadowing when Jon and Tormund were talking might be the way it will go. Sort of like Paul in the Dune Series. Jon is too good for the game of thrones.

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    So, after last night, is GOT dead to you? If not, why not?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    So, after last night, is GOT dead to you? If not, why not?
    Tough one. I've declared fan bankruptcy after episode 3, so I'm mainly watching for the spectacle at this point and I'm ignoring the plot holes and the glaring inconsistencies, the simplifications, the shortcuts, the reduction of complex characters to mere caricatures of their former selves. I'm just curious to know how it will end (not gonna give up the show when there's only one episode left). They decided to go full "Dany the mad queen" mode, fine. I never liked show Dany anyway - arrogant, entitled, borderline. Some people seem surprised by her "sudden" change, I'm not really. The clues and hints of her madness were there all along, starting at season 1. While she'd somewhat kept a hold on her worst instincts till now, she just "snapped" in episode 5. I hope she gets what she deserves… she most certainly will.
    I wouldn't rate this episode as low as episode 4 (which was really bad), the visuals were terrific and the scenes of destruction truly horrifying. But it'll never compare to the excellence of the first 3 seasons, and to the books, of course. Let's just hope Martin finishes the series and offers us the ending that we, readers and show watchers alike, deserve.
    Last edited by TardisBlue; 14-05-19 at 08:05.

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    That's an interesting point. When/if Martin finishes the books, will he follow the series lead, or find his own way and possibly contradict the series? The latter might lead to greater sales . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    So, after last night, is GOT dead to you? If not, why not?
    No, it's not dead to me.

    I know a lot of people have big problems with Daenerys going full on mad queen but it makes sense to me. Half the Targaryens go mad, and the signs were always there. She never had the stability and moral compass of Jon/Aegon. Vaserys was right, imo.

    I was initially upset about Jaime's arc seeming to change, but on the other hand I understand how you can be so bonded to someone that if you know they're going to die alone you'd go to them, no matter what they've done, and the death of the Lannister twins in the keep is poetic, as is Sandor choosing to die in fire to kill his monster of a brother. I didn't need to see Cersei made to pay by having another Ninja moment with Arya or something.

    I think a whole paper could be written about the sibling relationships in these books/show. Speaking of which, I got very emotional at the leave taking between Jaime and Tyrion.

    I think my problem is really going to come next season. Poor Jon is going to have to kill Daenerys and I think they'll make him pay with his life. I get that he doesn't want it, I get that they'll make his life hell, but as was said, he'd make a good and wise ruler.

    Maybe the showrunners, in addition to wanting to move on, thought that was too obviously the direction and wanted to shake things up and do something different. The problem for me is that anything else will be unsatisfactory. Sansa is Littlefinger Lite who betrayed her brother in an instant, Arya doesn't have the right skills, Tyrion, if he doesn't get killed, just makes too many mistakes. Who else is there? Bran? That's the solution?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    My point would be, not that you can't explain character arcs or plot twists, but what happened to the subtle politics and wit of the first years? What happened to the careful pacing? It can't be that they were in a hurry to finish, they're making lots of money on this so why not spin it out?

    My issue is that, personally, I'm not into big death scenes and lots of carnage, I want characters that evolve, at a human pace, and interact with other humans in a believable fashion.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    My point would be, not that you can't explain character arcs or plot twists, but what happened to the subtle politics and wit of the first years? What happened to the careful pacing? It can't be that they were in a hurry to finish, they're making lots of money on this so why not spin it out?

    My issue is that, personally, I'm not into big death scenes and lots of carnage, I want characters that evolve, at a human pace, and interact with other humans in a believable fashion.
    They've spent ten years on this, and word is they have another project lined up. I'm sure HBO would have been happy to see it go on forever.

    As to the carnage, people like to see extravagant set pieces like that, i.e. battles. Think of "Saving Private Ryan". Unless someone makes it real you don't really understand it. It's exciting, gets the pulse racing, and is cathartic. I like character driven movies too, but there's also room for the other kind, imo, although unlike me most of my women friends don't like them.

    I also personally think some people need to be reminded what war is like on the ground, not only for innocent women, children, and other noncombatants, but for soldiers on the other side as well. All these whooping 20 and 30 somethings need a reality check.

    Some people also need a reality check in terms of this to me inexplicable desire to be related to the aristocracy or royalty. I think of the conversation Bron had with the Lannister brothers: kill a couple of hundred, you get to be a Lord; kill thousands and tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands, and you get to be King. Jon is a good fighter, but he hates war. That's the way it should be. It's the amoral Brons of the world who enjoy power and found lasting dynasties.

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    All good points, but we'll agree to differ on carnage-driven stories.

    Your comment about 20 and 30 somethings reminds me of an episode of Big Bang Theory. All of the show's characters are dressed as super-heroes, on the way home from a party where they played at being strong and virtuous; they come on a scene, a group stealing car, that requires an heroic act, and they all turn and slink away. Easy to play-act, hard to act.

    As to Bron and Jon, it's been said that the only man who should lead is the one who doesn't want the job. Isn't there a Roman that fits that description?

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    All good points, but we'll agree to differ on carnage-driven stories.

    Your comment about 20 and 30 somethings reminds me of an episode of Big Bang Theory. All of the show's characters are dressed as super-heroes, on the way home from a party where they played at being strong and virtuous; they come on a scene, a group stealing car, that requires an heroic act, and they all turn and slink away. Easy to play-act, hard to act.

    As to Bron and Jon, it's been said that the only man who should lead is the one who doesn't want the job. Isn't there a Roman that fits that description?
    Do you mean Cincinnatus? He left his farm to take absolute power perhaps more than once at a time of extreme peril for the Republic, and when the crisis was over he gave up power and returned to his farm.

    George Washington is in some ways a Cincinnatus like figure. He was so revered that there were even calls for him to become King, or at least to rule indefinitely, but he refused to serve longer and returned to his farm as well, if a more wealthy farm.

    There is also the story that Claudius, hiding somewhere in the palace while Caligula was being assassinated was found by the Praetorians and forced to become Emperor. It may or may not be true. He could just as well have been plotting with them. He was the last adult male of the family, and Caligula was mad as a hatter. Sounds familiar, I guess.

    Have you read "I, Claudius" ? If you haven't, it's a lot of fun even if a lot of it is probably exaggerated.

    I suppose you could also say something like that of Marcus Aurelius. From childhood he was destined for the purple, and yet he supposedly didn't want or perhaps was even afraid of the life of pomp at the imperial court. You would expect that of someone whom you could call a Stoic.

    My husband still has and reads his university copy of "The Meditations".

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    That's an interesting point. When/if Martin finishes the books, will he follow the series lead, or find his own way and possibly contradict the series? The latter might lead to greater sales . . .
    To me, there's no way Martin will follow the series lead. The show has diverged so much from the books at this point - some characters are dead in the series and not in the books, some have been completely omitted (Lady Stoneheart, Arianne Martell, Aegon/Young Griff, to name a few), Sansa's storyline has been completely changed, etc. – and though Martin apparently gave D&D a very general idea of the direction of the story, I'm sure we're gonna read something completely different when/if the books come out, something that will make much better sense than what we're seeing now. It's obvious that the show runners wanted to move on, that's why the final season looks so rushed and lacks all the complexity, character development, political games and twists that are precisely what define Martin's books and why we love those books (and the early seasons). In an interview, Martin said he was sad about how D&D will end the series… Here's the full quote.

    "Some storylines and characters have continued to diverge from the books and Martin has been more vocal about the subject recently, telling Rolling Stone: "Of course you have an emotional reaction. I mean, would I prefer they do it exactly the way I did it? Sure.
    In another frank chat this week with Fast Company he revealed: "It can also be... traumatic. Because sometimes their creative vision and your creative vision don't match, and you get the famous creative differences thing — that leads to a lot of conflict.
    Martin revealed one of his greatest frustrations: "You get totally extraneous things like the studio or the network weighing in, and they have some particular thing that has nothing to do with story, but relates to 'Well this character has a very high Q Rating so let's give him a lot more stuff to do.'"
    The author had previously said he would have liked the show to run across more series, to give all his complex storylines room. Instead, the HBO team entirely removed some characters or reassigned storylines.

    Martin said: “The series has been... not completely faithful. Otherwise, it would have to run another five seasons.

    In the new interview he added: "You know, it’s complex. I’m a little sad, actually. I wish we had a few more seasons."
    If you read between the lines, it's obvious that Martin is quite bitter about the series' ending and what D&D and HBO have done to his story.

    Re, Jaime: I agree with Angela about the apparent change of Jaime's arc being upsetting at first. It seemed out of character for Jaime, given how much he'd changed from Season 1. I was pretty sure his aim in coming to K's landing was to kill Cersei, but after watching the episode and their final scene together, it makes sense to me too that he should choose to reunite with his twin at the very end. Seeing her so helpless and lost, well I almost felt sad for her! Actually, I did feel sad - forgetting for a moment that she was always a monster. That scene was quite moving.

    Anyway, brace yourselves! Finale is coming.

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    Actually, while the story leading up to the end will be different in the books, Martin has openly stated the ending to this series will be the same as the book, with the difference being the fate of secondary characters, and story beats to how he reachs that end. Sadly I read the leaks for episode 5 and 6 a month ago. Episode 5 was 80 percent correct. This suggests the claims that the final episode would be shakespearan tragedy coupled with a Sopranos style cut to black may be true. It will kill half its fan base in the process. Guaranteed. You never end the show too open ended that you provide no closure. It appears to be exactly what we are going to get.

    I am hopeful the long night series will be better than this final season, including the second spinoff thats currently in the writing stage. Focused on the fire and blood book, which is a targaryen story from Aegons conquest up to roberts rebellion. It would be interesting if that spinoff covers all that ground up to the rebellion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    Actually, while the story leading up to the end will be different in the books, Martin has openly stated the ending to this series will be the same as the book, with the difference being the fate of secondary characters, and story beats to how he reachs that end.
    Yes, that's what I meant. I didn't mean it will necessarily be different in terms of outcome, but in terms of how it will all happen. Because yes, it's highly probable that Cersei will die but how she will die will hopefully be different in the books, if Martin sticks to the Valonqar prophecy. Yes, we know he tends to subvert prophecies, but up to now, all that Cersei was told by the witch when she was a teen came to pass (in the show… we can expect it'll be the same in the books, regarding Myrcella and Tommen and her being replaced by a more beautiful, younger queen… Sansa?) Dany going mad and destroying KL is also probable. There's been enough foreshadowing about that.
    But at least with Martin, we'll get to follow the characters' respective journeys instead of (both literally and figuratively) being teleported from point A to point B without any organic and natural progression.
    And we can expect all the characters' arcs to be resolved in a satisfying way. (Bran's arc, for ie, is a disaster in the show).

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    2 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Shakespearean tragedy is the right analogy, I think, although none of this, books or series is on the artistic level of that. Take someone who has never seen one of those plays to a production of Lear, or Hamlet, or Othello, or even Romeo and Juliet. The good die either through human mistakes, or stupid chance, or the machinations of the evil, and at the end you're looking at the survivors standing in a field of ruin.

    Or look at Greek tragedies. The Trojan Women, Antigone, Oedipus Rex, all of them really. The "hero" who is willing to sacrifice all, atone for all, dies.

    Human history is a Shakespearean tragedy, I think.

    How does Hamlet end? When he was napping, his brother Claudius poured a poison into this ear which caused his skin to develop horrible sores. He dies a victim of his brother's betrayal.

    Lear is betrayed by almost everyone. At the end he says to Cordelia:

    "
    No, no, no, no! Come, let's away to prison:
    We two alone will sing like birds i' the cage:
    When thou dost ask me blessing, I'll kneel down,
    And ask of thee forgiveness: so we'll live,
    And pray, and sing, and tell old tales, and laugh
    At gilded butterflies, and hear poor rogues
    Talk of court news; and we'll talk with them too,
    Who loses and who wins; who's in, who's out;
    And take upon's the mystery of things,
    As if we were God's spies: and we'll wear out,
    In a wall'd prison, packs and sects of great ones,
    That ebb and flow by the moon."

    It's a pipe dream: they're going to prison, and Jon and Igrit or Jon and the old Dany can't flee the world for some hidden paradise.

    In a way it's good to know that however it ends, and however much of a disservice the show runners may have done to subplots and characters (probably indeed mandated by studio executives) and rushed the ending, much to my dismay as to everyone else's, this is the way Martin saw the ending. He was aiming at a grand tragedy, not just another fantasy series where the hero wins.

    In real life, in classical tragedy, the hero never wins. The wheel is never broken because the wheel is formed by human nature. Think of the wheel of life in eastern religions. It is formed by "wanting". As long as you live, you want, you are on that wheel. Only when you evolve to not "want" anymore can you stop the suffering by ceasing to be reborn and thus finally getting off the wheel.

    When Daenerys says she wants to break the wheel, she means to stop the constant reshuffling of royal houses. How will she do that? By putting herself at the head. Even were she not a Targaryen, with mental instability, absolute power corrupts absolutely. That's no solution.

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    Okay, here is my theory on how Danny dies, one day ahead off the last episode airing. Danny and Jon confront each other; Danny demands absolute loyalty and Jon won't give it. Danny tells her last dragon to fry Jon. The dragon, understanding better than anyone else who the real heir to the throne is, refuses and fries Danny instead. Jon, reluctantly, assumes the throne.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Okay, here is my theory on how Danny dies, one day ahead off the last episode airing. Danny and Jon confront each other; Danny demands absolute loyalty and Jon won't give it. Danny tells her last dragon to fry Jon. The dragon, understanding better than anyone else who the real heir to the throne is, refuses and fries Danny instead. Jon, reluctantly, assumes the throne.
    Even with the unbelievably superficial "twists" they have introduced this year, this one seems to absurd for me. If they develop such a scenario, maybe Drogon will fry him but Jon survives since Targaryens seem to be immune to fire in the series. Also, if lore means anything anymore, note that Targaryens have been killed by the dragons on several occasions.

    I am just hoping to see Nymeria again (unlikely) and have Bran do something.

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    I don't think Jon will take the throne, he'll probably go back to the North (and finally get to pet Ghost!!). Dany will die / be murdured and Sansa or someone else will reign over Westeros. BTW, be careful if you don't want to be spoiled: the script of the finale has leaked online.

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    So after plastic coffee drinks
    In winterfell they had discover also water bottles


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    I really liked last night's episode. I can't wait for the prequel.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Goes to show how different we all are.

    I wish I'd never watched any of Season 6, but especially this last episode. That way, my memories of Game of Thrones would be fond ones.

    Beyond terrible, imo.

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