"The Game of Thrones"

That's an interesting point. When/if Martin finishes the books, will he follow the series lead, or find his own way and possibly contradict the series? The latter might lead to greater sales . . .

To me, there's no way Martin will follow the series lead. The show has diverged so much from the books at this point - some characters are dead in the series and not in the books, some have been completely omitted (Lady Stoneheart, Arianne Martell, Aegon/Young Griff, to name a few), Sansa's storyline has been completely changed, etc. – and though Martin apparently gave D&D a very general idea of the direction of the story, I'm sure we're gonna read something completely different when/if the books come out, something that will make much better sense than what we're seeing now. It's obvious that the show runners wanted to move on, that's why the final season looks so rushed and lacks all the complexity, character development, political games and twists that are precisely what define Martin's books and why we love those books (and the early seasons). In an interview, Martin said he was sad about how D&D will end the series… Here's the full quote.

"Some storylines and characters have continued to diverge from the books and Martin has been more vocal about the subject recently, telling Rolling Stone: "Of course you have an emotional reaction. I mean, would I prefer they do it exactly the way I did it? Sure.
In another frank chat this week with Fast Company he revealed: "It can also be... traumatic. Because sometimes their creative vision and your creative vision don't match, and you get the famous creative differences thing — that leads to a lot of conflict.
Martin revealed one of his greatest frustrations: "You get totally extraneous things like the studio or the network weighing in, and they have some particular thing that has nothing to do with story, but relates to 'Well this character has a very high Q Rating so let's give him a lot more stuff to do.'"
The author had previously said he would have liked the show to run across more series, to give all his complex storylines room. Instead, the HBO team entirely removed some characters or reassigned storylines.

Martin said: “The series has been... not completely faithful. Otherwise, it would have to run another five seasons.

In the new interview he added: "You know, it’s complex. I’m a little sad, actually. I wish we had a few more seasons."

If you read between the lines, it's obvious that Martin is quite bitter about the series' ending and what D&D and HBO have done to his story.

Re, Jaime: I agree with Angela about the apparent change of Jaime's arc being upsetting at first. It seemed out of character for Jaime, given how much he'd changed from Season 1. I was pretty sure his aim in coming to K's landing was to kill Cersei, but after watching the episode and their final scene together, it makes sense to me too that he should choose to reunite with his twin at the very end. Seeing her so helpless and lost, well I almost felt sad for her! Actually, I did feel sad - forgetting for a moment that she was always a monster. That scene was quite moving.

Anyway, brace yourselves! Finale is coming.
 
Actually, while the story leading up to the end will be different in the books, Martin has openly stated the ending to this series will be the same as the book, with the difference being the fate of secondary characters, and story beats to how he reachs that end. Sadly I read the leaks for episode 5 and 6 a month ago. Episode 5 was 80 percent correct. This suggests the claims that the final episode would be shakespearan tragedy coupled with a Sopranos style cut to black may be true. It will kill half its fan base in the process. Guaranteed. You never end the show too open ended that you provide no closure. It appears to be exactly what we are going to get.

I am hopeful the long night series will be better than this final season, including the second spinoff thats currently in the writing stage. Focused on the fire and blood book, which is a targaryen story from Aegons conquest up to roberts rebellion. It would be interesting if that spinoff covers all that ground up to the rebellion.
 
Actually, while the story leading up to the end will be different in the books, Martin has openly stated the ending to this series will be the same as the book, with the difference being the fate of secondary characters, and story beats to how he reachs that end.

Yes, that's what I meant. I didn't mean it will necessarily be different in terms of outcome, but in terms of how it will all happen. Because yes, it's highly probable that Cersei will die but how she will die will hopefully be different in the books, if Martin sticks to the Valonqar prophecy. Yes, we know he tends to subvert prophecies, but up to now, all that Cersei was told by the witch when she was a teen came to pass (in the show… we can expect it'll be the same in the books, regarding Myrcella and Tommen and her being replaced by a more beautiful, younger queen… Sansa?) Dany going mad and destroying KL is also probable. There's been enough foreshadowing about that.
But at least with Martin, we'll get to follow the characters' respective journeys instead of (both literally and figuratively) being teleported from point A to point B without any organic and natural progression.
And we can expect all the characters' arcs to be resolved in a satisfying way. (Bran's arc, for ie, is a disaster in the show).
 
Shakespearean tragedy is the right analogy, I think, although none of this, books or series is on the artistic level of that. Take someone who has never seen one of those plays to a production of Lear, or Hamlet, or Othello, or even Romeo and Juliet. The good die either through human mistakes, or stupid chance, or the machinations of the evil, and at the end you're looking at the survivors standing in a field of ruin.

Or look at Greek tragedies. The Trojan Women, Antigone, Oedipus Rex, all of them really. The "hero" who is willing to sacrifice all, atone for all, dies.

Human history is a Shakespearean tragedy, I think.

How does Hamlet end? When he was napping, his brother Claudius poured a poison into this ear which caused his skin to develop horrible sores. He dies a victim of his brother's betrayal.

Lear is betrayed by almost everyone. At the end he says to Cordelia:

"
No, no, no, no! Come, let's away to prison:
We two alone will sing like birds i' the cage:
When thou dost ask me blessing, I'll kneel down,
And ask of thee forgiveness: so we'll live,
And pray, and sing, and tell old tales, and laugh
At gilded butterflies, and hear poor rogues
Talk of court news; and we'll talk with them too,
Who loses and who wins; who's in, who's out;
And take upon's the mystery of things,
As if we were God's spies: and we'll wear out,
In a wall'd prison, packs and sects of great ones,
That ebb and flow by the moon."

It's a pipe dream: they're going to prison, and Jon and Igrit or Jon and the old Dany can't flee the world for some hidden paradise.

In a way it's good to know that however it ends, and however much of a disservice the show runners may have done to subplots and characters (probably indeed mandated by studio executives) and rushed the ending, much to my dismay as to everyone else's, this is the way Martin saw the ending. He was aiming at a grand tragedy, not just another fantasy series where the hero wins.

In real life, in classical tragedy, the hero never wins. The wheel is never broken because the wheel is formed by human nature. Think of the wheel of life in eastern religions. It is formed by "wanting". As long as you live, you want, you are on that wheel. Only when you evolve to not "want" anymore can you stop the suffering by ceasing to be reborn and thus finally getting off the wheel.

When Daenerys says she wants to break the wheel, she means to stop the constant reshuffling of royal houses. How will she do that? By putting herself at the head. Even were she not a Targaryen, with mental instability, absolute power corrupts absolutely. That's no solution.
 
Okay, here is my theory on how Danny dies, one day ahead off the last episode airing. Danny and Jon confront each other; Danny demands absolute loyalty and Jon won't give it. Danny tells her last dragon to fry Jon. The dragon, understanding better than anyone else who the real heir to the throne is, refuses and fries Danny instead. Jon, reluctantly, assumes the throne.
 
Okay, here is my theory on how Danny dies, one day ahead off the last episode airing. Danny and Jon confront each other; Danny demands absolute loyalty and Jon won't give it. Danny tells her last dragon to fry Jon. The dragon, understanding better than anyone else who the real heir to the throne is, refuses and fries Danny instead. Jon, reluctantly, assumes the throne.

Even with the unbelievably superficial "twists" they have introduced this year, this one seems to absurd for me. If they develop such a scenario, maybe Drogon will fry him but Jon survives since Targaryens seem to be immune to fire in the series. Also, if lore means anything anymore, note that Targaryens have been killed by the dragons on several occasions.

I am just hoping to see Nymeria again (unlikely) and have Bran do something.
 
I don't think Jon will take the throne, he'll probably go back to the North (and finally get to pet Ghost!!). Dany will die / be murdured and Sansa or someone else will reign over Westeros. BTW, be careful if you don't want to be spoiled: the script of the finale has leaked online.
 
So after plastic coffee drinks
In winterfell they had discover also water bottles

Water-Bottle-GOT-1558338448295_16ad435aba7_original-ratio.jpg
 
Goes to show how different we all are.

I wish I'd never watched any of Season 6, but especially this last episode. That way, my memories of Game of Thrones would be fond ones.

Beyond terrible, imo.
 
In another thread there is a discussion about who the best Roman emperors were. How do we think Bran will do as King? A little detached and other-worldly to attend to the day-to-day needs of rule, don’t you think?
 
In another thread there is a discussion about who the best Roman emperors were. How do we think Bran will do as King? A little detached and other-worldly to attend to the day-to-day needs of rule, don’t you think?

Well, detached is the word, don't you think? Looked like two minutes with the council and then off to go to la la land.

Even Robert Baratheon spent more time on matters of state than that.

I hated the whole thing. Why would anyone think a hereditary oligarchy is that much better than a hereditary kingship? Most of the real life, historical examples usually deteriorated into internal wars. Plus, the interaction of the members of the small council, especially with BRON on it, of all people, didn't inspire me with much confidence that really good decisions would be made.

Maybe part of my reaction to Bran as King is that the actor gives what I think are terrible performances. The only thing I see on his face is smug satisfaction. I wanted to smack him. :)

Perhaps I was on to something with my theory of the tragic hero. They really threw Jon under the bus. He goes off into exile, and these mediocre people are left in charge.

Or maybe HBO just wants to milk the franchise as much as it can and forced certain things on the writers. In addition to a prequel, can't you just see a whole "Arya" series? I'll be giving that one a pass. Or how about this one? They muck everything up in Westeros, so Jon has to come back riding Drogon to straighten it all out. The possibilities are now endless.

I yelled at the screen when they came up with that stupid let's send Jon to the Knight's Watch. :) What Knight's Watch? There are no knights there. Was he supposed to camp out there like a hermit? Even if there were some ex-Knights there, what would be their function? What would be HIS function? There's a huge freaking chunk down. How are they going to keep anyone out? The Wildings don't even want to be south of it. In another bit of stupidity they have Jon and the Wildings going out the gate. Just go out the huge missing chunk for goodness' sakes. Not everyone has forgotten it came down.

Maybe I'm too logical for this stuff. Sometimes it seemed like the writers forgot what happened in prior scenes.
 
Didn’t Diocletian try “something” like an hereditary oligarchy with the tetrarchy? It worked out just as you might think it would. However, when I complain about illogic in a show with dragons and the undead, my wife just laughs at me.
 
I haven't seen any of this season, and I have to say, the books were much better than the series. On another note, I just returned from a trip to Ireland and was able to visit the Game of Thrones Touring Exhibition. It was very interesting.
 
Didn’t Diocletian try “something” like an hereditary oligarchy with the tetrarchy? It worked out just as you might think it would. However, when I complain about illogic in a show with dragons and the undead, my wife just laughs at me.

There are conventions in certain kinds of literature which you either like or don't like, don't you think?

I'm a great fan of South American fiction, which contains many elements of what they call "magical realism". Or, there are fables/allegories like the "Chronicles of Narnia". Going in you have to accept that these are magical worlds.

However, they're not "illogical" worlds. Even the "magical" creatures or "events" have to follow the "rules" of logic.

Some people like it; after all, Marquez got himself a Nobel Prize for literature.

Some people hate it.

I like it; my husband hates it, and GOT. I tell him it's a failure of imagination and an inability to see beyond the surface of things. :) All in good humor, of course. :)

The thing is, if something, book, movie, television show, is well done, I'm up for almost every genre. He's not. I often watch things like Bruce Willis movies with him. There's no way he's going to watch yet another Jane Austen movie.:)

On the other hand I don't like certain kinds of fantasy i.e. The Marvel comic book heroes stuff. I've tried to watch it, but it's torture. Yet he'll watch that.

It takes all kinds to make the world, right?
 
Simply

season 8 is just a fast, (come on, lets finish it) very bad screenplay, and very cheap production, not to use another word,

they should put a fine in the production managers and teams, and specially screenmakers,

Catapults outside wall? whos idea was this?
 
I yelled at the screen when they came up with that stupid let's send Jon to the Knight's Watch. :) What Knight's Watch? There are no knights there. Was he supposed to camp out there like a hermit? Even if there were some ex-Knights there, what would be their function? What would be HIS function? There's a huge freaking chunk down. How are they going to keep anyone out? The Wildings don't even want to be south of it. In another bit of stupidity they have Jon and the Wildings going out the gate. Just go out the huge missing chunk for goodness' sakes. Not everyone has forgotten it came down.

The breach is in a different part of the Wall, at Eastwatch, a hundred miles from Castle Black (which is where Jon went back to at the end). I gathered that he (and Ghost!) left to live beyond the Wall with the Free Folk. The outcome for each character is satisfying to me, if only the story had been told better, in a less rushed manner which leave so many questions unanswered. Oh well. Bittersweet indeed.
 
There will be no sequels. Martin and HBO have confirmed as much. Everyones moving onto other projects and only 2 prequels are confirmed. One is filming its pilot(the long night) with the working title of Bloodmoon. Based in the age of heroes. Already casted and filming this summer. Second in the writing stage is based on the 2018 novel fire & blood which chronicles Aegons conquest up to roberts rebellion if im not mistaken. It remains to be seen whether that series will cover all that ground or only a section of it.

Also The ending in the show is exactly the ending we will get in the books, obviously with vastly different and better written plot device making sense of those final close outs. Martin already said in an interview that Bran/3ER would be the best king given his abilities. Additionally, its not really his acting. The 3ER is almost robotic, and so when he became him his soul was lost, Bran no more.

While horribly executed, the finale did have a few strong moments. Drogon burning the throne. To me(due the maesters saying they're smarter than humans) Drogon knew the throne is what corrupted his mother and led to her demise. This is why he spared Jon, not because hes a targaryen.

Jon wasn't really exiled in a literal sense. If you notice when he rides beyond the wall, the wildlings have their things packed as if a migrating party. Jon looks back at the gate one last time, and notices plants growing in the snow covered forest, and smirks. This is in some poorly written way showing he is happy beyond the wall and feels accomplished. Spring comes, along with an everlasting Summer. This means the land north of the wall will become lush and habitable again, eventually growing rich with game. I took it as Jon and the wildlings migrating to form a new people in new and uncharted northern regions, including the land of always winter(maybe now always summer? lol).

Its obvious they set out to have powerful moments but completely mishandled their execution. You just have to head cannon the aftermath to fill in the blanks.
 

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