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Thread: E-V13 subclades in Greece

  1. #426
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    Country: Bosnia & Herzegovina



    Quote Originally Posted by Leka View Post
    Yes, he is negative for CTS1975 and PF2252.
    I missed this, even though it was posted here some time ago immediately before my post. So negative for 2 out of 16 with reads. There is lots of SNP's at L618 level (51) but at the very least this should increase the TMRCA by 500 years, while indicating these downstream L618 clades are European. So this speaks more in favor of pre-Neolithic origin for L618.

    The sea level in the Strait of Sicily was not as great 10000 years ago as it is today.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantel..._Bank_Megalith

  2. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    Not exactly, it came from the Middle East or just maybe North Africa directly more than 8000 years ago. It is a Neolithic lineage which likely was mostly confined to Dalmatian coast from around 6300 BC until 2500 BC. So almost 4000 years of being there. Then something happened, the Steppe IE waves were beginning to arrive so out of the native Neolithic element Cetina culture was created. So the local remnants of Hvar culture embraced war, social stratification and other things that came with Indoeuropeans. Cetina culture died out without inheritors but it seems most of E-V13 that is CTS1273 were part of daughter cultures of Cetina: Belotic-Bela Crkva, Bubanj Hum III and Armenochori, and then likely Danubian complex. None of these cultures can be regarded as proto-Illyrian. In fact considering the fact that Minyan Ware was recorded in Bubanj Hum III they are far more likely to have something to do with proto-Greeks.. Except the successor of Belotic-bela Crkva and Bubanj Hum III, Vatin had a Western Serbian variant which was "illyrianized" early on.
    So J-L283/Illyrians essentially took over the old E-V13 lands..
    So you see as usual the hugely expanding haplogroups usually expand into their non-native area, they overgrow the native area and have to expand to other peoples lands!! J-L283 is not native to Western Balkan but it demographically boomed there. R-Z93 is not native to India but it boomed there. R-L51 is not native to Western Europe but it boomed there. J-P58 is not native to Middle East but it boomed there. E-V13 is not native to Eastern/Central Balkan but it boomed there...
    This doesn't make any sense, if e-v13 was in Western balkans 2500 BC it is likely ilyrian/proto ilyrian and definitely became ilyrian for the next 2-3 thousand years. Also where are you plucking these magical numbers from?

    Nothing is native anywhere, where something boomed is where a tribe and their culture was formed

    R1b is not native to europe yet it is all over it, I don't get your point here. Ev13 and j2b are found in Albania because that is where the tribe lived and formed its culture/language over many many years, there is no boom. E-v13 found elsewhere is normal for such an early European marker so not all E-V13 is Albanian but I would wager most of it in Greece IS due to the many albanian to Greek converts over many years

  3. #428
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by rafc View Post
    Interesting is that the Saudi belongs to the same branch as the Albanians (and the Sardinian sample), so very likely their history is connected to that of V13. In the other branch we only have a Latvian and a Lebanese (plus some others, mostly Italians, that are predicted to belong to this branch). So this second branch can still represent a group of L618 that 'stayed behind', which would indicate a Levant origin of L618, in line with Cardial ware origins. Offcourse we could find a sample tomorrow that show this group did not stay behind.
    E-V13 has nothing to do with Saudis, they mostly belong to J1

    E-V13 has as much to do with Saudis as R1b and I1, zero

  4. #429
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    The sea level in the Strait of Sicily was not as great 10000 years ago as it is today.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantel..._Bank_Megalith
    Two links for those who wish to wander off looking for lost grounds since the last ice age:
    https://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/gornitz_09/
    https://webapp.navionics.com/#boating
    Most shore lines are quite steep, but the North Sea, Denmark, Baltic, Brittanny, Atlantic Andalusia, South of Sicily and West of Tunesia stand out.

  5. #430
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    Hello from me.
    Recently completed my Ydna tests to FDNA. The Ydna results reveal E-Z19851.
    As i know my grand-grand father was from Lesbos island or Aibali.
    Is it possible to find more informations about my ancestors?
    Thank You.

  6. #431
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    Hi panstam! Our last common direct paternal line ancestor was Z5017, who lived 4400 years ago in the Bronze Age.

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z5017/

    I'm CTS9320>Z17107>A19238. YF11315 on YFULL. Where was our father's homeland? Good question. What do you think from this all european branch?

  7. #432
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Country: Albania




  8. #433
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    Country: Greece



    Hello Kuzmosi,
    I dont have alot to say about this European Branch.
    But, i search a little about this branch and i think i read smwhere that this branch comes from the Aromanians ethnic group.
    Is that correct or not? That's a questions for me. And if it's correct, where are they came from?
    The map of progon what exactly is showing?
    Thank You.

  9. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by panstam View Post
    Hello Kuzmosi,
    I dont have alot to say about this European Branch.
    But, i search a little about this branch and i think i read smwhere that this branch comes from the Aromanians ethnic group.
    Is that correct or not? That's a questions for me. And if it's correct, where are they came from?
    The map of progon what exactly is showing?
    Thank You.
    There is a lot of politically motivated people spreading disinformation around the boards, so don't put too much effort on what they write except for peer reviewed scientific papers.

    Cypriotes have a lot of E-V13 Z5017 as well, i doubt everything can be explained with Aromanians when their dominant Y-DNA is J2a and R1b followed by E-V13.

  10. #435
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    E-Z19851 info
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    Country: Greece



    Thank you dear Progon.
    The previous map is showing the expansion of V13 subclade around Balkans and Europe?
    Thank You.

  11. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by panstam View Post
    Hello from me.
    Recently completed my Ydna tests to FDNA. The Ydna results reveal E-Z19851.
    As i know my grand-grand father was from Lesbos island or Aibali.
    Is it possible to find more informations about my ancestors?
    Thank You.

    Congrats! I saw your result recently. You did SNP pack, and came out as Z19851+ and BY4685+ which is on the same level. They don't have anything below Z19851 in the Pack but per STR's you do not seem to be closely related to any other E-Z19851. Per few STR's you might belong to E-Y137715 (defined by 4 SNPs) but even if you do you will split that level. Regarding Aromanians, per STR's in their study few belong to E-Z19851>A18833 cluster which is numerous in the Balkans. This cluster at Y111 has 5 defining mutations at the A18833 level and 3 mutations at the A18840 level, you share 2 and 1 respectively. Maybe you are positive to something at that level, it is hard to say because you don't share 2 of these A18840 level STR's.

    So chances are your clade was in Greece for some time. Only BigY/NGS can tell you more, as STR's are inconclusive regarding these identified subclades. Most likely you do not have relatives closer than MBA/LBA, of the currently tested people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    Cypriotes have a lot of E-V13 Z5017 as well, i doubt everything can be explained with Aromanians when their dominant Y-DNA is J2a and R1b followed by E-V13.

    There are almost no tested Cypriots for SNPs, the only one tested is both Z5017- and Z5018-. Based on STR's there are probably many E-L241's there, occasional Z5017s like PH1173 common in Greece, but not much can be said of their E-V13.

  12. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by panstam View Post
    Thank you dear Progon.
    The previous map is showing the expansion of V13 subclade around Balkans and Europe?
    Thank You.
    Hello panstam, we don't yet know. But somehow many people are connecting the spread of E-V13 in the Balkans with the Danubian Urnfield influence attested to all three Paleo-Balkan people, which they received during LBA, Illyrians/Thracians/Greeks.

    Perhaps, perhaps not. We are still not sure, but some of the E-V13 subclades show a spread during LBA and the diversity is precisely where the Eastern Urnfield culture was flourishing during Middle Bronze Age to Late Bronze Age, so that means Pannonian-Carpathian basin.

  13. #438
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    I cannot post links but if you google SNP tracker there is a good website it should be the first one that allows you to put in your SNP and it will simulate a migration of your DNA, I have only tested myself for E-V13 but one of my related peoples had a terminal SNP of E-FT364624 which is in Brittain the previous SNP is E-ET365413 which shows to be roughly in Slovenia region and from around Iron Age Period, based on this I can only assume that I am most likely related to someone from the Illyrian Wars with Rome that was most likely integrated into the Roman Legions and sent to Brittania I read that some Illyrian tribes sided with Rome during the Bato Wars and became loyal others were most likely punished harshly who knows which tribe I'm related to :/.

  14. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdbowser View Post
    I cannot post links but if you google SNP tracker there is a good website it should be the first one that allows you to put in your SNP and it will simulate a migration of your DNA, I have only tested myself for E-V13 but one of my related peoples had a terminal SNP of E-FT364624 which is in Brittain the previous SNP is E-ET365413 which shows to be roughly in Slovenia region and from around Iron Age Period, based on this I can only assume that I am most likely related to someone from the Illyrian Wars with Rome that was most likely integrated into the Roman Legions and sent to Brittania I read that some Illyrian tribes sided with Rome during the Bato Wars and became loyal others were most likely punished harshly who knows which tribe I'm related to :/.
    Its not like that, because the path prediction provided is just a rough estimate. There are two things to consider: Without ancient DNA, it remains speculative, and secondly, for most SNP's many intermediate steps being missed. So even if your ancestral clade would have been sitting in Slovenia in the Bronze Age, which is absolutely not proven yet at all and just one option out of many, it might have moved upwards into Austria in the Early Iron Age, being spread to France with La Tene and moving to Britain with a Celtic tribe, to bring forward the actually most likely scenario.

    The only thing which is really safe is if you have a TMRCA to a range of other samples. Like if your last ancestor in common with a Balkan subclade was 3500 years ago, it tells you little to nothing about what happened in between, not even from where the Balkan clade itself was originally coming from. The more ancient DNA we will get, the more people test, the more clear the relations will become.

    Will you test BigY or similar too?

  15. #440
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    I did some extensive DNA analysis through 23andMe and mytrueancestry where I uploaded my DNA results.
    They cross-refrenced it with ancient DNA samples and found links of my DNA segments.
    Among other ancients, I personally share DNA segments with 2 Illyrian soldiers according to this website.
    I'm trying to post pics but this stupid thing is not letting me.

  16. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    That means nothing, E is ~65,200 years old whilst E-V13 is only ~8,100 years old. You can't compare the two. The TMRCA of V13 (~4,800ybp) correlates well with the IE Bronze Age expansions.
    It means the people who carried the E clades from which EV13 people descend were
    Neolithic farmers

    Do you know by the way what Arber means?

    Are means Land and ber means work

    Arber is the one who works the land thus Farmer or Peasant

    In Greek this is the Arvanitis.

    Arvaino (i work on the fields)
    Last edited by cybernautic; 16-03-21 at 18:38.

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