Living DNA results and comparison

[I1a3_Young]

Ordered: May 6
Processed: May 8
Received Kit: May 10
Mailed Kit: May 11
Kit Received: May 15
Lab work begun: May 30
Anticipated results: Aug 16
Result received: July 26 (no email, I just checked the website every day)

Raw data download gives me an error and could still be not fully ready.

I'm going to post some graphics because there are so many "views" to choose from.

Abstract: I'm thrilled with the regional results and consider them to be highly accurate. I now have mtDNA: H5b1. Y-DNA confirmed what I knew from Ancestry.com test: I1 (Z63). Overall results track extremely closely with Ancestry.com test.

[I1a3_Young]

You can view nine different maps. Each one is a combination of Cautious, Standard, or Complete. Then you can show Global, Regional, or Subregional.


Cautious Global.jpgStandard Global.jpgComplete Global.jpg

[I1a3_Young]

Here are the Regional maps. Notice the non-British bits only show up under "complete."

Cautious Regional.jpgStandard Regional.jpgComplete Regional.jpg

[I1a3_Young]

Subreg Cautious.PNGSubreg Standard.jpgbottom.PNGSubreg Cautiousmap.jpgSubreg Standard.jpgbottom.PNGComplete Subregional.jpg

I'll compare numbers to Ancestry.com and some GEDmatch calculators in the future.

[Fire Haired14]

Interesting.

[Johane Derite]

Attachment 8972Attachment 8973Complete Subregional.jpg

Here's the last three. I'll compare numbers to Ancestry.com and some GEDmatch calculators in the future.

Really appreciate this, thanks so much for uploading. Feel free to keep us updated on that RAW file.

Is that "kurdish" something that shows up usually in other tests also?

[I1a3_Young]

I got caught at a busy time for this but I will get a detailed comparison between companies.

Yes, all the companies have identified some mystery component coming from SE Europe or near east.

They all seem unsure, as shown by the cautious and standard views here. Ancestry shows 3% Italian and 1% Ashkenazi. MyHeritage shows it as Balkan. WeGene specifically called it Iran. Northwest Iran was Kurdish territory and Kurds are very close to Askenazi Jews if I remember correctly.

There's nothing in the paper trail for it. It would have had to have been in a person coming from Oslo ~1881, London ~1890, or Prussia ~1809, or a mystery out-of-wedlock event.


I wonder if it could be HLA related. My brother has the same looks as my father and I but none of this mystery component. According to Ancestry.com I got the exact same components in a whole package from my father and my brother, who has a different HLA, got none of those components.

The GEDmatch calculators have us very similar.

I'm so busy right now, I wish I had more time to sit at my computer!

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[I1a3_Young]

I just noticed that I reposted incorrect pics on sub region view. I reposted two regional pics instead. It was late

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[Johane Derite]

I got caught at a busy time for this but I will get a detailed comparison between companies.

Yes, all the companies have identified some mystery component coming from SE Europe or near east.

They all seem unsure, as shown by the cautious and standard views here. Ancestry shows 3% Italian and 1% Ashkenazi. MyHeritage shows it as Balkan. WeGene specifically called it Iran. Northwest Iran was Kurdish territory and Kurds are very close to Askenazi Jews if I remember correctly.

There's nothing in the paper trail for it. It would have had to have been in a person coming from Oslo ~1881, London ~1890, or Prussia ~1809, or a mystery out-of-wedlock event.


I wonder if it could be HLA related. My brother has the same looks as my father and I but none of this mystery component. According to Ancestry.com I got the exact same components in a whole package from my father and my brother, who has a different HLA, got none of those components.

The GEDmatch calculators have us very similar.

I'm so busy right now, I wish I had more time to sit at my computer!

Sent from my XT1080 using Eupedia Forum mobile app

No worries, thanks for this update, look forward to hearing more!

[I1a3_Young]

On the Facebook LivingDNA customer group I just saw a British lady who claimed a lot of Welsh ancestry who also had 1.7% Kurdish! It could be a component like the small amount Basque that is floating around the general British population rather than a recent event.

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[davef]

Just a little hint: Ashkenazi are a mix of Middle East/European so they aren't similar to Kurds and neither are Southern Europeans, though it seems that living dna may be confusing these two populations with Kurds for some reason. It's new so there are bugs to squash.

If other British users are scoring a small percentage of Kurd, there's no need to investigate Kurdish ancestry.

[Sennevini]

In my case, my 1/16 Jewish seems to have been represented by Living DNA, by lack of a Jewish cluster, as a mixture of Kurdish, Iberian and West-Balkan. In some cases, people without Jewish ancestry also get this Kurdish. I have also seen some Brits who got Pashto, which seems to be connected with the Indo-Iranian component in the MDLP admixture calculator; others got a lot of Tuscan, with no explanation yet.

[I1a3_Young]

Thanks for posting, I have been reading elsewhere that the Kurdish should be Jewish. Somebody said in May that LivingDNA has zero Ashkenazi references.

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[Fire Haired14]

H5b1 is a super rare haplogroup. Most European H5 is H5a1 which was probably spread by EEFs. H5b1 could have completely different origin.

[Sennevini]

Thanks for posting, I have been reading elsewhere that the Kurdish should be Jewish. Somebody said in May that LivingDNA has zero Ashkenazi references.

They should get Ashkenazi references; however, they like to assign DNA to regions on maps, and that poses a problem for "wandering" populations.

[davef]

This whole thing with the Kurdish scores tells me that this calculator isn't reliable for those who aren't fully northern European. Yes, it seems you can still be a full northerner and score a bit of Kurd, but if you have known ancestry that isn't from the north, this calculator might mislead you.

[I1a3_Young]

I think we've established that they are still building as a company. If they had only references from other parts of the world then I wouldn't have gotten it.

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[I1a3_Young]

Anc.PNGMyHeritage.PNGWeGene.PNG

Eurogenes K36 puts heat map on Southern England. Other GEDmatch calculators Oracle top choices include North Dutch, Southwest English, Utahn White.

Real paper ancestry as known matches closely to Ancestry.com and LivingDNA.

I believe the middle eastern bits are correctly identified by Ancestry as Euro Jew.

The breakdown by region of Britain by LivingDNA is accurate as known for our immigrants. Southern England overwhelmingly produced the early colonial Americans and the Scots-Irish and Welsh came through Northern Ireland shortly after. The Cornwall bit is a later immigrant as is the Norwegian.

LivingDNA shifted 2% from Norwegian to Orkney Isles which I believe is incorrect though understandable. Both LivingDNA and Ancestry have the larger regions approximately correct.

Iberian on Ancestry = Basque on LivingDNA (base amount within old populations of Britain imo)
Finnish tracks exactly
Norwegian tracks but should pick up the Orkney from LivingDNA to make it 10% there as well.
The Celtic components on Ancestry are really Scottish Highland, Welsh, and Cornwall celtic components so LivingDNA is correct not showing Irish.
The low West Euro is not typical for my family or other British people from what I've seen.
The Euro Jew and Italian on Ancestry is shown as Kurdish on LivingDNA - they apparently don't have Ashkenazi samples. I have no paper trail for this component and it could have come from an immigrant from London who was an orphan. Low percent Euro Jew is not uncommon in the British Isles though.

I know exactly which families make the North Welsh, South Welsh, and Cornwall pieces.

My German immigrants should account for 1-2% German, one of which was from Prussia but photo does not look Jewish.

[I1a3_Young]

Ok, I downloaded and analyzed the files. LivingDNA will not give you Y position data, just positive SNP calls.

There was a 1.04% "null" value rate where there was -- instead of a letters like "AG"

For comparison, the latest Ancestry.com file had a 0.74% "null" value rate.

I used the two files to compare positions and "repair" "null" values by replacing them with the values in the other file. I repaired 878 positions out of 6452 on LDNA and 848 out of 4978 on Ancestry.

I uploaded the repaired Ancestry file to GEDmatch and ran a K13 on the old vs the repaired. It did change it some and this is only from "null" values in the original Ancestry test.

K13		Old	Repaired	Delta
#	Population	Percent
1	North_Atlantic	48.88	48.95	0.07
2	Baltic	22.26	22.26	0
3	West_Med	13.15	13.09	-0.06
4	West_Asian	7.73	7.71	-0.02
5	East_Med	3.67	3.66	-0.01
6	Red_Sea	2.16	2.17	0.01
7	Oceanian	0.78	0.78	0
8	Siberian	0.5	0.49	-0.01
9	Amerindian	0.47	0.46	-0.01
10	Sub-Saharan	0.42	0.44	0.02
Single Pop Sharing:
#	Population (source)	Distance
1	Southeast_English	4.23	4.22	-0.01
2	Southwest_English	4.4	4.38	-0.02
3	Orcadian	4.44	4.4	-0.04
4	Irish	4.49	4.43	-0.06
5	North_Dutch	4.9	4.85	-0.05
6	West_Scottish	4.97	4.9	-0.07
7	Danish	5.65	5.61	-0.04
8	North_German	5.8	5.79	-0.01
9	South_Dutch	5.83	5.9	0.07
10	West_German	6.88	6.95	0.07

Also, I ran Eurogenes Jtest and it came up 3.87% Ashkenazi, Oracle still #1 English.

[I1a3_Young]

H5b1 is a super rare haplogroup. Most European H5 is H5a1 which was probably spread by EEFs. H5b1 could have completely different origin.

I haven't found out much about it except that it's found in NW Europe.

[davef]

Did you get your dna tested via 23amdme? If so, did you score any ashkenazi?

[I1a3_Young]

Here's a K36 of repaired vs old Ancestry file:

Repaired			Old			Delta
North_Sea	21.37		North_Sea	21.37		0
North_Atlantic	13.2		North_Atlantic	13.12		0.08
Iberian	13		Iberian	12.99		0.01
Central_Euro	10.59		Central_Euro	10.56		0.03
Italian	9.01		Italian	9.06		-0.05
East_Central_Euro	7.66		East_Central_Euro	7.72		-0.06
Fennoscandian	7.61		Fennoscandian	7.62		-0.01
French	6.39		French	6.37		0.02
Basque	4.38		Basque	4.39		-0.01
Volga-Ural	2.59		Volga-Ural	2.56		0.03
West_Caucasian	2.22		West_Caucasian	2.24		-0.02
North_Caucasian	1.58		North_Caucasian	1.57		0.01
West_Med	0.39		West_Med	0.4		-0.01

No, Davef I have not had a 23andMe test. I have only had Ancestry + LivingDNA tests plus free uploads like MyHeritage and GEDmatch.

[Johane Derite]

Here's a K36 of repaired vs old Ancestry file:

Pretty close. 1st question, how did you repair the livingdna raw data.

2nd question, have you had any correspondence with livingdna over their issues with the raw data? Have they indicated at all
whether they will update their raw file formats or does it seem that this is their final offer?

thx

[I1a3_Young]

Pretty close. 1st question, how did you repair the livingdna raw data.

2nd question, have you had any correspondence with livingdna over their issues with the raw data? Have they indicated at all
whether they will update their raw file formats or does it seem that this is their final offer?

thx

I used Microsoft Excel to split genotype columns to match Ancestry raw format. I sorted for bad values and then used =VLOOKUP() to find the corresponding values for the bad positions (both ways). Then for the LivingDNA I recombined the columns to put both alleles back together and pasted over the bad values.

I haven't been able to successfully upload the repaired LDNA file yet, I get an error. The repaired Ancestry did pull my numbers into more correct territory ever so slightly.

Edit: I saved the file in Apple format .txt instead of tab delimited or MSDOS and it appears to be working. I'll have repaired LivingDNA figures to compare to repaired Ancestry.com figures!

[I1a3_Young]

#	Population	Percent		#	Population	Percent
1	North_Atlantic	49.39		1	North_Atlantic	49.76
2	Baltic	23.47		2	Baltic	23.09
3	West_Med	12.48		3	West_Med	12.56
4	East_Med	5.11		4	East_Med	5.25
5	West_Asian	5.11		5	West_Asian	5.07
6	Red_Sea	1.54		6	Red_Sea	1.46
7	South_Asian	1.16		7	South_Asian	1.29
8	Northeast_African	0.64		8	Northeast_African	0.59
9	Sub-Saharan	0.61		9	Oceanian	0.42
10	Oceanian	0.5		10	Sub-Saharan	0.37
				11	Amerindian	0.13
#	Population (source)	Distance		#	Population (source)	Distance
1	Southeast_English	2.5		1	Southeast_English	2.2
2	Orcadian	3.55		2	Orcadian	3.5
3	North_Dutch	3.78		3	Southwest_English	3.88
4	Danish	4.01		4	North_Dutch	3.99
5	Southwest_English	4.15		5	Danish	4.21
6	Irish	4.44		6	Irish	4.34
7	West_Scottish	4.64		7	West_Scottish	4.44
8	North_German	4.91		8	North_German	5.29
9	South_Dutch	5.78		9	South_Dutch	5.85
10	Norwegian	6.41		10	Norwegian	6.62

These are the unrepaired LDNA numbers for EuroK13 from regular GEDMatch (first set) and GENESIS BETA (second set). Same exact file.