I-CTS10228 Dinaric subclades and distribution

[mihaitzateo]

Another Greek Y18331+ A2512- was found by FTDNA, making it two Greeks who have this basal branch. The MRCA of A2512 is estimated to have formed 2,200 years ago. Maybe now that time gets moved forward and Y18331 has the 2,200 year estimate? There is one ancestral A2512* Greek as well (with no subbranches).

The rest of the people in A2512 are downstream: Greeks, East European Jews, Chuvash and Latin Americans with likely Greek ancestry—still no Slavs in the branches.

2200 yrs ago is matching extremely well the migration of the Celts into Balkans.
I am not saying that Y18331+ A2512 is for sure Celtic, but this possibility can be also taken into account.
Usually is supposed that I2-din branches were either moved by Slavs or by fewer voices, by Thracians/Dacians.
I supposed in another thread, that some I2-din branches might have moved with Goths.
However, is known that Celts also migrated into Balkans and in Romania from somewhere more Eastwards.
They were migrating 2200 yrs ago or so.
So, there is very possible that some I2-din clades were moved by people that were assimilated by Celts and after,migrated with Celts Westwards.
No one knows if the Celts came from somewhere NE Europe or from E or from SE into Balkans and Romania.
If some Chuvash people got also this branch you found and some Latin Americans and some East European Jews, suddenly, Celts become a candidate of bearing this subclade.
Is weird how this subclade was not found in Iberia, but only in Latin Americans.....

[Ralphie Boy]

Is weird how this subclade was not found in Iberia, but only in Latin Americans.....

The Latin Americans likely descend from a Greek ancestor or ancestors. There was someone named Juan Griego. The Chuvash men belong to the same family, from what I read/understood at the FTDNA blog.

I just tested Y60804- for an A10959 sub-branch. One A10959 branch is Greek-only so far, Y66912, under which is Y60804. I am waiting for my Y66192 result and expect to test positive for it. If it’s negative I might be A10959*, with no known sub-branches.

[Salento]

The Latin Americans likely descend from a Greek ancestor or ancestors. There was someone named Juan Griego. The Chuvash men belong to the same family, from what I read/understood at the FTDNA blog.

I just tested Y60804- for an A10959 sub-branch. One A10959 branch is Greek-only so far, Y66912, under which is Y60804. I am waiting for my Y66192 result and expect to test positive for it. If it’s negative I might be A10959*, with no known sub-branches.

No they don’t. imo
Because Griego (Greco, Del Greco, La Greca,...) It’s an Italian surname that originated in Tuscany.
It doesn’t necessarily mean that this person came from Greece, because it’s also a nickname for a crafty or guileful person, for these were qualities traditionally attributed to the Ancient Greeks.

[mihaitzateo]

No they don’t.
Because Griego (Greco, Del Greco, La Greca,...) It’s an Italian surname that originated in Tuscany.
It doesn’t necessarily mean that this person came from Greece, because it’s also a nickname for a crafty or guileful person, for these were qualities traditionally attributed to the Ancient Greeks.

Oh lol !
It means that this branch of I2 was either spread by Celts or by Goths.
Glad to see members from Eupedia that have such a vast knowledge.

Coming back to the Goths and Celts, I think history mentions that some Goths settled in Greece. Some Goths also settled in Italy.
As for Celts, did not searched too much, but was thinking that this branch of I2 got TMRCA of 2200 yrs before now, which is too early for Slavs and too early for Goths, also.
Also, another possibility is the people from Troy, which was proved to have existed but I do not know when the Trojan war took place.
After this Trojan war,according to the Greek legend some Trojans escaped to Italy.
If this branch is coming from Trojans, this would be really fascinating.

[Wonomyro]

Oh lol ! It means that this branch of I2 was either spread by Celts or by Goths. Glad to see members from Eupedia that have such a vast knowledge. Coming back to the Goths and Celts, I think history mentions that some Goths settled in Greece. Some Goths also settled in Italy. As for Celts, did not searched too much, but was thinking that this branch of I2 got TMRCA of 2200 yrs before now, which is too early for Slavs and too early for Goths, also. Also, another possibility is the people from Troy, which was proved to have existed but I do not know when the Trojan war took place. After this Trojan war,according to the Greek legend some Trojans escaped to Italy. If this branch is coming from Trojans, this would be really fascinating.

Troyans arrived with Slavs from Ukraine and Belarus? Interesting...

[Atlantische]

Oh lol !
It means that this branch of I2 was either spread by Celts or by Goths.
Glad to see members from Eupedia that have such a vast knowledge.

Coming back to the Goths and Celts, I think history mentions that some Goths settled in Greece. Some Goths also settled in Italy.
As for Celts, did not searched too much, but was thinking that this branch of I2 got TMRCA of 2200 yrs before now, which is too early for Slavs and too early for Goths, also.
Also, another possibility is the people from Troy, which was proved to have existed but I do not know when the Trojan war took place.
After this Trojan war,according to the Greek legend some Trojans escaped to Italy.
If this branch is coming from Trojans, this would be really fascinating.

I2-CTS10228 is espesially common in areas settled by Goths and Celts, such as Italy and Western Europe.

[Dibran]

I2-CTS10228 is espesially common in areas settled by Goths and Celts, such as Italy and Western Europe.

Its really not though. It could just as easily be attributed to the later Slavs who were also mercenaries in Spain during Moorish rule, and in Sicily by one of the eastern empires. Also the branch that this italian belongs to with Ralphie is the oldest cluster so far, and no South-Slavs belong to it yet other than East European Jews and Greeks. Given the TMRCA of 200BC and the Bastarnae who were hired by King Phillip and brought to Macedonia, in his case this is probably its means of arrival.

[Atlantische]

Its really not though. It could just as easily be attributed to the later Slavs who were also mercenaries in Spain during Moorish rule, and in Sicily by one of the eastern empires. Also the branch that this italian belongs to with Ralphie is the oldest cluster so far, and no South-Slavs belong to it yet other than East European Jews and Greeks. Given the TMRCA of 200BC and the Bastarnae who were hired by King Phillip and brought to Macedonia, in his case this is probably its means of arrival.

Yes, Greeco-Jewish A10959 is probably only branch of CTS10228 that can not be associated with Slavic expansion.

[Ralphie Boy]

We tend to think of Slavic invasions from the north when it comes to Greeks, but with the small amount of Steppe ancestry in Mycenaeans that was found so far, it looks like the north was coming in at a much earlier time. Northern people could have come to Greece and settled in Hellenistic/Roman/Byzantine times before the Slavs, but probably in nowhere near the same numbers. My ancestor could have come from the north in one of the earlier settlements or invasions.

Juan Griego was said to be Greek by one of FTDNA’s administrators in an I2a blog post—a man who went to the New World with the Spanish in 1538. Plus, doesn’t Griego mean Greek in Spanish?

[LABERIA]

We tend to think of Slavic invasions from the north when it comes to Greeks, but with the small amount of Steppe ancestry in Mycenaeans that was found so far, it looks like the north was coming in at a much earlier time. Northern people could have come to Greece and settled in Hellenistic/Roman/Byzantine times before the Slavs, but probably not in the same numbers as Slavs. Among one of these could have been my ancestor.

Juan Griego was said to be Greek by one of FTDNA’s administrators in an I2a blog post—a man who went to the New World with the Spanish in 1538. Plus, doesn’t Griego mean Greek in Spanish?

Ok, but what does mean Griego (Greek) in 1538?

[Wonomyro]

Griego could have been a Orthodox Christian.

[Ralphie Boy]

Sorry I meant 1598 for Juan Griego.

http://i2aproject.blogspot.com/2017/...and-i.html?m=1

[mihaitzateo]

I was talking about this specific subclade of I2-din which surely did not moved with Slavic speakers migration from 600 AD:

The Latin Americans likely descend from a Greek ancestor or ancestors. There was someone named Juan Griego. The Chuvash men belong to the same family, from what I read/understood at the FTDNA blog.

I just tested Y60804- for an A10959 sub-branch. One A10959 branch is Greek-only so far, Y66912, under which is Y60804. I am waiting for my Y66192 result and expect to test positive for it. If it’s negative I might be A10959*, with no known sub-branches.

And yes is most possible that it moved with Celtic migration.
Some Celts remained in Romania, some settled in Balkans and Greece, some migrated Westward and settled in Italy, some moved even more Westward and settled in Spain.
It either moved with the Celtic migration or it belongs to the Trojan people.

Now about Trojan people, there is not much known about them but a thing is certain:
In Romania at Sarmisegetusa, a Dacian city, was found a color mosaic depicting some scene of the Trojan war.
This confirms the most common theory about the Trojans, that they were some kind of Thracians.
So a new theory could come:
Thracians bearing also I2-din migrated North fearing the Greek warriors, after the Trojan war and established there.
Later, Goths came and and these Thracians allied to Goths went to fight the Greeks and Roman Empire.
Later Thracians mingled with protoSlavs and formed the Slavs as we know now.
The Slavs went to take back their land from the Greeks and Romans.
A weird fact is that in Ukrainian highlanders from North Moldavia and Ukraine there is found some E-V13 specific branch.

[Demizar]

Bonjour a l origine les serbes et les croates sont de culture bulgar, c est a dire des scythes

[Aaxavns]

Hello, I am new here but have been interested in genetics for a few years.

I'm hoping to learn more about my haplogroup which descends from I-A10959, and comes from Tripolis, Greece. From what I've seen it seems to have arrived in Greece with the Medieval Slavic migrations, but I've also seen other theories. Can anyone offer anymore insight? Very interested to learn more. Thanks.

[TaktikatEMalet]

Bonjour a l origine les serbes et les croates sont de culture bulgar, c est a dire des scythes

Western hunter gatherers and then ukrainians