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Thread: Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

  1. #2976
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    Quote Originally Posted by matadworf View Post
    A lot of folks want to claim some sort of affinity with the Ancient Greeks but I do think genetically Southern Italians and Eastern Aegean Greek Islanders are the closest. I'm a mainland Greek with deep roots in the Peloponnese but from my observations of various models (G25) I find to have a closer genetic link to Illyrians (usually the biggest component) and/or other Paleo-Balkanites than the heavier CHG, decreased Steppe ancient pops.
    If Iron age Greeks turn out log_2 like I think your close affinity with illyrians is going to be replaced by these samples. Also I believe that when we get ancient Macedonians and epirotans mainland Greeks are going to be really close genetically to them

  2. #2977
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill7 View Post
    If Iron age Greeks turn out log_2 like I think your close affinity with illyrians is going to be replaced by these samples. Also I believe that when we get ancient Macedonians and epirotans mainland Greeks are going to be really close genetically to them
    This. It's also interesting that on 23andMe these days I notice many Balkanites getting Peloponnesian as part of their Ancestry.

  3. #2978
    Regular Member Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constantine View Post
    This. It's also interesting that on 23andMe these days I notice many Balkanites getting Peloponnesian as part of their Ancestry.
    I think 23andme autosomal breakdown model is a bit skewed. Notice, i said model, they can improve that a lot though.

  4. #2979
    Regular Member ihype02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iluvatar View Post
    Also for the record i do believe there is substantial slavic admixture in greece. Something like 30% for most of the mainland from a Serbian like source would make sense.
    Seems like it, when using Sicilians versus Serbs for Peloponnese:
    Target: Greek_Peloponnese
    Distance: 1.6654% / 0.01665386
    67.6 Sicilian_East
    32.4 Serbian

  5. #2980
    Regular Member ihype02's Avatar
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    Target: Greek_Trabzon
    Distance: 1.5673% / 0.01567298
    83.8 Georgian_Laz
    16.2 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2

  6. #2981
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    Seems like it, when using Sicilians versus Serbs for Peloponnese:
    Target: Greek_Peloponnese
    Distance: 1.6654% / 0.01665386
    67.6 Sicilian_East
    32.4 Serbian
    But Peloponnesians as Serbs do carry native paleobalkan admixture which in this 2-way model can only be expressed by inflating the latter...
    It rises by almost 15 points if you choose Serbs instead of Poles/Ukrainians.

    It's even more evident in your national average which gets modelled as 52% Sicilian_east and 48% Serbian whereas the NE signal is reduced by almost 23! points when choosing Poles/Ukrainians.
    Do you believe that you really are almost half Serbian like ? Personally I don't think so ...

  7. #2982
    Regular Member ihype02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    But Peloponnesians as Serbs do carry native paleobalkan admixture which in this 2-way model can only be expressed by inflating the latter...
    It rises by almost 15 points if you choose Serbs instead of Poles/Ukrainians.

    It's even more evident in your national average which gets modelled as 52% Sicilian_east and 48% Serbian whereas the NE signal is reduced by almost 23! points when choosing Poles/Ukrainians.
    Do you believe that you really are almost half Serbian like ? Personally I don't think so ...
    Well I choosed Sicilians instead of Empuries for one reason.
    If you use Empuries it's roughly 50/50 for Serbs. Also I find it hard to believe that Slavs that reached Greece in the early stage were Serb-like. Even if they turn to be that way we need to make sure that they are not outliers before comming up with the conclusions.

    What do you think of using Croats as an admixture for Ballkanic-related ( Albanian, Thracian, Venetian etc), Germanic and Slavic admixture combined together for post-Classical Age Peloponnese versus Empuries?


    Target: Greek_Peloponnese
    Distance: 2.3217% / 0.02321709
    58.4 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
    41.6 Croatian
    Last edited by ihype02; 07-09-21 at 17:14.

  8. #2983
    Regular Member blevins13's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    But Peloponnesians as Serbs do carry native paleobalkan admixture which in this 2-way model can only be expressed by inflating the latter...
    It rises by almost 15 points if you choose Serbs instead of Poles/Ukrainians.

    It's even more evident in your national average which gets modelled as 52% Sicilian_east and 48% Serbian whereas the NE signal is reduced by almost 23! points when choosing Poles/Ukrainians.
    Do you believe that you really are almost half Serbian like ? Personally I don't think so ...
    Beautiful things are happening, Greeks reducing the Slavic influence of Albanians as an argument in their continuity theory in mainland. For the record, I believe that Modern Greeks have continuity from the Ancient ones, but probably not in mainland.


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  9. #2984
    Regular Member Ralphie Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    Seems like it, when using Sicilians versus Serbs for Peloponnese:
    Target: Greek_Peloponnese
    Distance: 1.6654% / 0.01665386
    67.6 Sicilian_East
    32.4 Serbian
    If modern Peloponnesians are a proxy for old Greek genes and have near zero ancient continuity, and Sicilians are a good representative of ancient Greek ancestry, they have quite a bit in common with Sicilians. The replacement populations are pretty “Greek-like,” if Sicilians are among the closest to ancient Greeks (using the few Mycenaean and Empuries samples).

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