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Thread: Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    Thessaly: 52.3% Barcin_N, 29.3% Yamnaya, 6.5% WHG, 8.2% CHG/IranNeo, 3.8% Natufian.
    Peloponnese: 46.6% Barcin_N, 29.3% Yamnaya, 5% WHG, 11% CHG/IranNeo, 8.2% Natufian.
    Macedonia: 48.6% Barcin_N, 30.75% Yamnaya, 3% WHG, 12.2% CHG/IranNeo, 5.4% Natufian.

    Minoan: 78% Barcin_N, 18% CHG/IranNeo, 3.2% Natufian.
    Mycenean: 68% Barcin_N, 13% Yamnaya, 16% CHG/Iran Neo, 0% Natufian
    Also these were done by you?

    Iberia
    Cantabria: 48.2% Barcin_N, 21.5% Yamnaya, 22% WHG, 1.1% CHG/IranNeo, 3.6% Natufian, 3.5% Morocco.
    Murcia: 44.3% Barcin_N, 21.4% Yamnaya, 18% WHG, 4.4% CHG/IRanNeo, 3.6% Natufian, 8% Morocco.
    Portuguese: 44% Barcin_N, 20% Yamnaya, 19% WHG, 3% CHG/IranNeo, 3% Natufian, 11.8% Morocco.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I know that Stormfront is down, and Skadi, forumbiodiversity, and theapricity are probably not far behind, but you're not going to import your garbage here and imperil this site, in case I haven't made it sufficiently clear before.
    No Anthrogenica is next. They are racist pigs with an agenda. They banned me then they spread rumours about me that I'm " mentally ill " . I'm not. ****** assholes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    Can you show me the academic curriculum vitae of "geneticist" Polako? In what university did he earn the Ph.D? And in which university does he teach?

    Those models were not done by me but by someone who is not less "geneticist" than Polako.


    He graduated summa cum laude from Duke University...wait, I meant David Duke University where he completed his doctoral dissertation on Indo European Übermenschen. He also minored in insecurity.

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    @curiouscat,

    I see you've corrected your data and now state that you're Iberian.

    Didn't I question you just recently on one of these active threads and ask whether you weren't in fact Iberian and the country flag was a blind? Didn't you say you weren't? I'll have to check that, and if you lied, I'll have to think about the consequences for that.


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    I'd be curious if Polako registered here so we could have a civil discussion. I've no reason to defend or support him, but it's not correct to attack anyone behind his back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Quoting Fire Haired:
    "Different models can give Greeks different Myceanean percentages. I'm sure some would give them 70% Mycenaean and some much less. It gets confusing when the proposed ancestors share ancestry. Overall Greeks are very similar to Mycenaeans"

    So a model can deem some of the genes Dave's run counted as Slavic as Mycenaean and thereby boosting the Mycenaean score from 47 percent to 70? its possible to confuse or manipulate the program so it mislabels Mediterranean DNA as Slavic DNA or vice versa?

    And no offense, but being roughly only half Mycenaean doesn't amount to being very similar to them.
    Yep that is what Angela and I were trying to explan for quite some time and told people to be cautios with some calculators and other methods, because they can be manipulated depending on what the maker tries to prove. The results aren't necessary wrong but the conclusions ARE. It's called confirmation bias.

    Let me give you an example. ancient Egyptians had something like 8% less SSA admixture. Some media outlets wrote "ancient Egyptians are closer to Europeans than moderns are. And they were slightly closer to neolithic Europeans than to modern Egyptians". These statements in themselves are not incorrect but the last thing you would think off if you saw the data.

    Ancient Egyptians being closer to Europeans than modern Egyptians are is a side effect of ancient Egyptians having less SSA admixture and more NEAR EASTERN admixture. So them being little closer to Europeans is a side effect of them being more Near Eastern. And Neolithic Europeans being possibly as close to ancient Egyptians as modern once is not because ancient Egyptians had European ancestry (as some white supremacists youtubers think) but because Neolithic Europeans derive almost entirely from Anatolian_farmers. So it is shared ancestry.

    The same with these Greek results. There is naturally shared ancestry between Slavs and Greeks too. And Slavs too have Iran_Neo/CHG and Anatolian_Neo ancestry. So you could argue that this shared ancestry came to Greeks after Bronze Age via Slavs or you can argue that little ancient Steppe andmixture meeting Neolithic farmers and creating a pseudo Slavic admixture appearance. To me it makes more sense the Greeks are 75% Mycenean derived + something like 15% Slavic admixture. than Greeks being almost as much Mycenean (thought to be their linguistic ancestors) derived as Slavic admixed. Can you imagine 30% real Slavic admixture in Greeks? Like Every third freakn Greek is descend of some kind of Slav?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    These are the actual percentages. The totals are very small, nothing like has been thrown around by some "amateurs".

    Northern Europeans:
    Twilight 4.4
    IIa3 Young 3.5
    Tomenable/Polish: 8.4
    Carl Graham 2.2
    Olov 0
    Northener 4.9
    Appalachian 2.3
    Bix 2%
    AHA 3%

    Italians:
    Me 3.4
    Regio’s family approximately 8%
    Stuvane 7.1

    Greek:
    Matadworf 5.5

    Bulgarian
    Valerius 6.9

    Albanian
    Dibran 5.4

    Basque-Arbaso 3%

    We would need a lot more samples, but my hunch is that northwestern Italians will tend to have less of this than north eastern Italians because there was additional input from the Balkans and Greece into eastern areas of Italy before subsequent changes to the Greek and Balkan genomes. It only needs to be added that I'm one-quarter far Northwest Tuscan (the Lunigiana), and one-quarter Eastern Ligurian (La Spezia). You would think I'd have a bit of "Etruscan".

    Now, this isn't a thread on Italian genetics. I shouldn't have let this continue for so long

    Let's get back on topic.
    Interesting that Northeast Europeans get more extra Iran_Neo/CHG than other. There seems to be something ancient going on? Or might it be Indo_Iranian like ancestry hiding?

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    Assuming we take consider geography and historical migrations, Slavic admixture seems present in Greece, maybe not as great as 30-40% but it's there, even just based on Y-dna haplogroups. Around 1/4 of the Greek male y-dna belongs to North Eastern European lineages, which can't be anything but a signal of Slavic related ancestry. (Maybe not extacly recent from Russians but shared lineage with those groups)

    If we use modern slavic samples then the Myceanean will decrease, compared to Myceaneans even Peloponnese can be like extra 50% Bulgarian like or 30% Polish like. Some people won't like it, but I don't see the point other than chauvinism. It's not a disease to have East European ancestry.

    This map shows the East European related Y-dna in Greece




    North-East-European based on MDLP World 22 VS Near Eastern one (peaks in Bedouins)

    Greeks:

    Northern Greece: 25.37 North-East European VS 14.79 Near Eastern
    Southern Greeks: 24.93 North-East European VS 15.85 Near Eastern
    Central Greeks: 21.36 North-East European VS 15.97 Near Eastern
    Cretan Greeks: 13.11 North-East European VS 21.42 Near Eastern
    Cypriot Greeks: 4.11 North-East European VS 27.56 Near Eastern


    Bulgarians: 38.44 North-East European VS 10.21 Near Eastern

    So Mainland Greeks are about 20-25% North-East European. That's quite significant and definitely shows up in admixture tests.

    Another map which uses other methods to measure admixture:



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    Quote Originally Posted by curiouscat View Post
    I'd be curious if Polako registered here so we could have a civil discussion. I've no reason to defend or support him, but it's not correct to attack anyone behind his back.
    He is registered here. And I had Polako invited on his blog to a civil discussion here, because I felt like it was easier to have a fair discussion on neutral ground, which he didn't respond to. He is very good at using tools for genetic data, which I am not taking away from him. Respect should be given where it is deserved. But his conclusions/theories are often schoolboy level and have allot of holes in them + confirmation bias is there. And if you point out these holes or try to explain him why it makes archeological not much sense. He can get quite angry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Yep that is what Angela and I were trying to explan for quite some time and told people to be cautios with some calculators and other methods, because they can be manipulated depending on what the maker tries to prove. The results aren't necessary wrong but the conclusions ARE. It's called confirmation bias.

    Let me give you an example. ancient Egyptians had something like 8% less SSA admixture. Some media outlets wrote "ancient Egyptians are closer to Europeans than moderns are. And they were slightly closer to neolithic Europeans than to modern Egyptians". These statements in themselves are not incorrect but the last thing you would think off if you saw the data.

    Ancient Egyptians being closer to Europeans than modern Egyptians are is a side effect of ancient Egyptians having less SSA admixture and more NEAR EASTERN admixture. So them being little closer to Europeans is a side effect of them being more Near Eastern. And Neolithic Europeans being possibly as close to ancient Egyptians as modern once is not because ancient Egyptians had European ancestry (as some white supremacists youtubers think) but because Neolithic Europeans derive almost entirely from Anatolian_farmers. So it is shared ancestry.

    The same with these Greek results. There is naturally shared ancestry between Slavs and Greeks too. And Slavs too have Iran_Neo/CHG and Anatolian_Neo ancestry. So you could argue that this shared ancestry came to Greeks after Bronze Age via Slavs or you can argue that little ancient Steppe andmixture meeting Neolithic farmers and creating a pseudo Slavic admixture appearance. To me it makes more sense the Greeks are 75% Mycenean derived + something like 15% Slavic admixture. than Greeks being almost as much Mycenean (thought to be their linguistic ancestors) derived as Slavic admixed. Can you imagine 30% real Slavic admixture in Greeks? Like Every third freakn Greek is descend of some kind of Slav?
    Yes, thanks! And Mycenaeans had a ton of farmer, and maybe some of that extra Slavic is shared Neolithic ancestry. I guess one could add Mycenaean to a German?

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    Quote Originally Posted by curiouscat View Post
    Assuming we take consider geography and historical migrations, Slavic admixture seems present in Greece, maybe not as great as 30-40% but it's there, even just based on Y-dna haplogroups. Around 1/4 of the Greek male y-dna belongs to North Eastern European lineages, which can't be anything but a signal of Slavic related ancestry. (Maybe not extacly recent from Russians but shared lineage with those groups)

    If we use modern slavic samples then the Myceanean will decrease, compared to Myceaneans even Peloponnese can be like extra 50% Bulgarian like or 30% Polish like. Some people won't like it, but I don't see the point other than chauvinism. It's not a disease to have East European ancestry.

    This map shows the East European related Y-dna in Greece



    So North-Eastern Greece has about the same amount of direct East European ancestry as parts of Bulgaria? It seems so. Notice how the Alps as a geographical barrier made the East European ancestry quite insignificant in most parts of Italy.

    If you believe all the R1a lineages in Greece are Slav derived you must be insane. Also as you noted out yourself. They have 1/4 Slav related yDNA. Related and derived are not the same thing. Schoolboy mistakes. Z93 is more Indo_Iranian related. But even z283 (z282) is not Slav exclusive.

    Who made that Slavic admixture map? And what is the proxy for "Slavic" admixture here? Is it Northeast Europeans or Balkanians. If Balkanians it's not like Balkan Slavs derive at least 2/3 of their ancestry from pre Slavic Balkanians which shared ancestry with Myceneans already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by curiouscat View Post

    This map is ridiculous. If its supposed to show paternal ancestry my guess is an amateur foolishly created it attributing all R1a and I2 in Greece to slavs, but perhaps that is even optimistic.

    As for Davidski he certainly has his prejudices and a temper. I wouldn't completely disregard him though just because of his favoritism towards slavs and the steppe.

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    A warning to all our members...

    Do not post fraudulent ethnicity information, and then come on this site to disrupt discussions and attack other ethnicities, and/or to evade bans that have already been issued. Most particularly, don't lie about it when questioned. It won't be tolerated. The really funny thing is that after denying he was Iberian, he then admitted it. :) Those kinds of shenanigans won't fly here.

    See:
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...ght=curiouscat

    As for Eurogenes, I would definitely not wish him to post here, since the last time he did so he personally threatened me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Promenade View Post
    This map is ridiculous. If its supposed to show paternal ancestry my guess is an amateur foolishly created it attributing all R1a and I2 in Greece to slavs, but perhaps that is even optimistic.
    Exactly right. From everything I've seen, "Slav" type R1a is very insignificant in Greece, and Z93 is rare. Even with I2, only certain types could at all be considered "Slavic".

    Alan:If you believe all the R1a lineages in Greece are Slav derived you must be insane. Also as you noted out yourself. They have 1/4 Slav related yDNA. Related and derived are not the same thing. Schoolboy mistakes. Z93 is more Indo_Iranian related. But even z283 (z282) is not Slav exclusive.
    School boy mistake or a deliberate attempt to misinform.

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    nMonte with the same samples from davidski's global 10, and the same kind of models. Greeks are northern Greeks, I've not understood if they are the same used by davidski. These I'm using are already quite northern-shifted. I would like to see also the results for other Greeks and Greek islanders.

    Even Italian_Bergamo can be modelled as 42% Slav and Tuscans as 31.4% Slav, but Greeks here get 29.1 which is a percentage closer to reality. I think that Slav indicates more steppe-like ancestry than true Slavic ancestors, whether or not these stats really mean something.


    Greek

    Anatolia_BA 49.2
    Unetice 34.3
    Iceman_MN 16.4

    Mycenaean 67.15
    Unetice 30.10
    England_Roman_outlier 2.75

    Mycenaean 62.5
    Slav_Czech 29.1
    Iran_ChL 8.3


    ____

    Italian_Bergamo

    Unetice 43.2
    Iceman_MN 34.3
    Anatolia_BA 22.4

    Mycenaean 52.2
    Unetice 45.9
    England_Roman_outlier 1.9

    Mycenaean 57.4
    Slav_Czech 42.6
    Iran_ChL 0.0


    ____

    Italian_Tuscan

    Anatolia_BA 42.4
    Unetice 35.5
    Iceman_MN 22.1

    Mycenaean 52.70
    Unetice 37.85
    England_Roman_outlier 9.45

    Mycenaean 62.4
    Slav_Czech 31.4
    Iran_ChL 6.2


    ____

    Italian_South

    Anatolia_BA 66.5
    Iceman_MN 18.1
    Unetice 15.4

    Mycenaean 46.0
    England_Roman_outlier 30.1
    Unetice 23.9

    Mycenaean 78.8
    Iran_ChL 12.2
    Slav_Czech 9.0

    ___

    Italian_EastSicilian

    Anatolia_BA 62.1
    Iceman_MN 22.1
    Unetice 15.8

    Mycenaean 54.8
    England_Roman_outlier 23.3
    Unetice 21.9

    Mycenaean 81.10
    Slav_Czech 10.15
    Iran_ChL 8.75

    ____

    Italian_CentralSicilian

    Anatolia_BA 63.5
    Iceman_MN 21.2
    Unetice 15.2

    Mycenaean 55.6
    England_Roman_outlier 23.4
    Unetice 21.1

    Mycenaean 80.90
    Iran_ChL 9.65
    Slav_Czech 9.45

    ____

    Italian_WestSicilian

    Anatolia_BA 57.1
    Iceman_MN 21.9
    Unetice 20.9

    Mycenaean 44.9
    Unetice 29.2
    England_Roman_outlier 25.9

    Mycenaean 75.00
    Slav_Czech 15.75
    Iran_ChL 9.25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    A warning to all our members...

    Do not post fraudulent ethnicity information, and then come on this site to disrupt discussions and attack other ethnicities, and/or to evade bans that have already been issued. Most particularly, don't lie about it when questioned. It won't be tolerated. The really funny thing is that after denying he was Iberian, he then admitted it. :) Those kinds of shenanigans won't fly here.

    See:
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...ght=curiouscat

    As for Eurogenes, I would definitely not wish him to post here, since the last time he did so he personally threatened me.
    Did he got permabanned?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    If you believe all the R1a lineages in Greece are Slav derived you must be insane. Also as you noted out yourself. They have 1/4 Slav related yDNA. Related and derived are not the same thing. Schoolboy mistakes. Z93 is more Indo_Iranian related. But even z283 (z282) is not Slav exclusive.

    Who made that Slavic admixture map? And what is the proxy for "Slavic" admixture here? Is it Northeast Europeans or Balkanians. If Balkanians it's not like Balkan Slavs derive at least 2/3 of their ancestry from pre Slavic Balkanians which shared ancestry with Myceneans already.
    Proto-Slavs were diverse:

    1. 3,800 BCE : Dobrovody (Ukraine) => I2a2, E1b1b , G2a and J2
    2. 3,700 BCE : Talianki (Ukraine) => I2a2, E1b1b , G2a and J2
    3. 3,700 BCE : Maydanets (Ukraine) => I2a2, E1b1b , G2a and J2
    4. 3,250 BCE : Kasenovka (Ukraine) => I2a2, E1b1b , G2a and J2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
    nMonte with the same samples from davidski's global 10, and the same kind of models. Greeks are northern Greeks, I've not understood if they are the same used by davidski. These are already quite northern-shifted. I would like to see also the results for other Greeks and Greek islanders.

    Even Italian_Bergamo can be modelled as 42% Slav and Tuscans as 31.4% Slav, but Greeks here get 29.1 which is a percentage closer to reality. I think that Slav indicates more steppe-like ancestry than true Slavic ancestors, whether or not these stats really mean something.


    Greek

    Anatolia_BA 49.2
    Unetice 34.3
    Iceman_MN 16.4

    Mycenaean 67.15
    Unetice 30.10
    England_Roman_outlier 2.75

    Mycenaean 62.5
    Slav_Czech 29.1
    Iran_ChL 8.3


    ____

    Italian_Bergamo

    Unetice 43.2
    Iceman_MN 34.3
    Anatolia_BA 22.4

    Mycenaean 52.2
    Unetice 45.9
    England_Roman_outlier 1.9

    Mycenaean 57.4
    Slav_Czech 42.6
    Iran_ChL 0.0


    ____

    Italian_Tuscan

    Anatolia_BA 42.4
    Unetice 35.5
    Iceman_MN 22.1

    Mycenaean 52.70
    Unetice 37.85
    England_Roman_outlier 9.45

    Mycenaean 62.4
    Slav_Czech 31.4
    Iran_ChL 6.2


    ____

    Italian_South

    Anatolia_BA 66.5
    Iceman_MN 18.1
    Unetice 15.4

    Mycenaean 46.0
    England_Roman_outlier 30.1
    Unetice 23.9

    Mycenaean 78.8
    Iran_ChL 12.2
    Slav_Czech 9.0

    ___

    Italian_EastSicilian

    Anatolia_BA 62.1
    Iceman_MN 22.1
    Unetice 15.8

    Mycenaean 54.8
    England_Roman_outlier 23.3
    Unetice 21.9

    Mycenaean 81.10
    Slav_Czech 10.15
    Iran_ChL 8.75

    ____

    Italian_CentralSicilian

    Anatolia_BA 63.5
    Iceman_MN 21.2
    Unetice 15.2

    Mycenaean 55.6
    England_Roman_outlier 23.4
    Unetice 21.1

    Mycenaean 80.90
    Iran_ChL 9.65
    Slav_Czech 9.45

    ____

    Italian_WestSicilian

    Anatolia_BA 57.1
    Iceman_MN 21.9
    Unetice 20.9

    Mycenaean 44.9
    Unetice 29.2
    England_Roman_outlier 25.9

    Mycenaean 75.00
    Slav_Czech 15.75
    Iran_ChL 9.25
    Like I said, it all depends what populations you feed into it. Plus, none of these are proximate populations. We need a little patience, people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Like I said, it all depends what populations you feed into it. Plus, none of these are proximate populations. We need a little patience, people.
    Yes, that's right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
    Yes, that's right.
    Btw, why did you use Anatolia BA, instead of something like Barcin*, and see what happens, or why Otzi instead of Remedello?

    I get why Unetice, although for western Sicily wouldn't Bell Beaker be better, or even for a Tuscan from around Lucca?

    There, see, now I'm doing it, but doing it straight. :)

    The closest match to Barcin is Tuscans: .827. It's not bad for East Sicilians, either: .822

    See:
    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2015/0...nome-from.html

    ED. One of the usual suspects absolutely doesn't get what you showed here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    Proto-Slavs were diverse:

    1. 3,800 BCE : Dobrovody (Ukraine) => I2a2, E1b1b , G2a and J2
    2. 3,700 BCE : Talianki (Ukraine) => I2a2, E1b1b , G2a and J2
    3. 3,700 BCE : Maydanets (Ukraine) => I2a2, E1b1b , G2a and J2
    4. 3,250 BCE : Kasenovka (Ukraine) => I2a2, E1b1b , G2a and J2
    Any actual ancient samples in there?

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    guys
    if remember correct an older papper,
    and if you know History

    Slavic admixture in Greece is 14% total
    reaching 24% at North Greece, and peaks >35% at spoted areas, villages

    R1a is not clear a Slavic mark, rather a Yamnaa, it can be Thracian also,
    maybe some DYS are clear Slavic but you can not describe R1a as a clear pure Slavic mark.
    cause prexists the ethnogenesis of Slavic nations
    there is also R1a that is connected with Thracians, and Scythians,
    the last were considered an outer Iranian tribe,

    Slavic admixture is raised not of pure-clear ancestry,
    but also from Arbanites and Aromani,
    Arbanites share also Slavic ancestry although as nation is not considered Slavic
    same some Aromani tribes, specially Megle, who had assimilated Slavic tribes like Antes.

    it is not a secret. neither a scary thing,

    modern Greeks are not the 'pure' race, neither a healthy sterile DNA,

    we had been defeated by Romans, who brought Italians and Gauls etc,
    we had been raided by Slavs , and accept to allow them settle in many areas,
    we had accepted the decline of East churches christians the times when Islam raise
    so you can find also Syrrian Egyptian and Iranian DNA,
    Even from Murcia Spain Justinianus brought people

    But that does not mean that modern Greeks are not descending from Ancient.
    there is still enough % to claim that,

    we were under Ottoman epmire for 400 years

    Besides if I follow Fallmerayer and some older members here,
    GREEKS still make miracles

    they keep their nationality during Roman empire and Ottoman empire,
    they Hellenised the multiplus Slavs as Fallmarayer claims that all modern Greek are Slavs
    and we Hellenised the 'millions' Arbanites, that some Albanian ex-members claimed
    that all Greeks were from Albanian origin,
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  23. #723
    Regular Member blevins13's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-10-16
    Location
    Tirana
    Age
    45
    Posts
    867

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-Z2103>BY611
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H7i1

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    guys
    if remember correct an older papper,
    and if you know History

    Slavic admixture in Greece is 14% total
    reaching 24% at North Greece, and peaks >35% at spoted areas, villages

    R1a is not clear a Slavic mark, rather a Yamnaa, it can be Thracian also,
    maybe some DYS are clear Slavic but you can not describe R1a as a clear pure Slavic mark.
    cause prexists the ethnogenesis of Slavic nations
    there is also R1a that is connected with Thracians, and Scythians,
    the last were considered an outer Iranian tribe,

    Slavic admixture is raised not of pure-clear ancestry,
    but also from Arbanites and Aromani,
    Arbanites share also Slavic ancestry although as nation is not considered Slavic
    same some Aromani tribes, specially Megle, who had assimilated Slavic tribes like Antes.

    it is not a secret. neither a scary thing,

    modern Greeks are not the 'pure' race, neither a healthy sterile DNA,

    we had been defeated by Romans, who brought Italians and Gauls etc,
    we had been raided by Slavs , and accept to allow them settle in many areas,
    we had accepted the decline of East churches christians the times when Islam raise
    so you can find also Syrrian Egyptian and Iranian DNA,
    Even from Murcia Spain Justinianus brought people

    But that does not mean that modern Greeks are not descending from Ancient.
    there is still enough % to claim that,

    we were under Ottoman epmire for 400 years

    Besides if I follow Fallmerayer and some older members here,
    GREEKS still make miracles

    they keep their nationality during Roman empire and Ottoman empire,
    they Hellenised the multiplus Slavs as Fallmarayer claims that all modern Greek are Slavs
    and we Hellenised the 'millions' Arbanites, that some Albanian ex-members claimed
    that all Greeks were from Albanian origin,
    More has to come.....especially if you are or not a Macedonian Original? in FTDNA, I have relation with Albania least 10 Greeks.....so it may be millions by now.


    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

  24. #724
    Regular Member Yetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-11
    Location
    Makedonia
    Posts
    5,801

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a3a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2b

    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by blevins13 View Post
    More has to come.....especially if you are or not a Macedonian Original? in FTDNA, I have relation with Albania least 10 Greeks.....so it may be millions by now.


    Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
    or the oposite,

    you are a Greek and you fear to admit

    Hehehehe

    so the non existed Greeks
    manage to Hellenise millions of Albanians and Slavs

    WE GREEKS ARE MAGNIFICENT

    only you seems to fear to admit that you are a Greek

  25. #725
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    09-03-17
    Posts
    110


    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    Thessaly: 52.3% Barcin_N, 29.3% Yamnaya, 6.5% WHG, 8.2% CHG/IranNeo, 3.8% Natufian.
    Peloponnese: 46.6% Barcin_N, 29.3% Yamnaya, 5% WHG, 11% CHG/IranNeo, 8.2% Natufian.
    Macedonia: 48.6% Barcin_N, 30.75% Yamnaya, 3% WHG, 12.2% CHG/IranNeo, 5.4% Natufian.

    Minoan: 78% Barcin_N, 18% CHG/IranNeo, 3.2% Natufian.
    Mycenean: 68% Barcin_N, 13% Yamnaya, 16% CHG/Iran Neo, 0% Natufian
    Thanks a bunch, dude. The results you get here do seem to agree with this general impression I've acquired that Italians are overall a bit more Neolithic, and probably have preserved Bronze Age ancestry a bit more, and mainland Greeks a bit more post-Neolithic Anatolian/Near Eastern and steppe due to continuing contacts in Greece with Anatolia and northeast Europe.

    The Macedonian sample seems to get both high Yamnaya and Iran+Natufian stuff. It seems like it might be a majority Macedonian, minority West Anatolian (i.e. post Lausanne refugees who should be close to southern Greece and the islands)/Pontic Greek sample. South Italians got more Iran and Natufian than the rest but I wonder how they'd exactly compare to Greek islanders in their relative Iran vs Natufian amounts. Going by the Sarno et al. paper and some other tests I've seen, I have a feeling Greek islanders should be a bit more Iran and a bit less Natufian on average.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    Cypriot might be the modern population most similar to Minoans and Anatolia_BA. Cypriots are more or less intermediate between Minoan and Anatolia_BA in terms of AnatoliaNeo/CHG ancestry and also have an addition of Natufian stuff.
    That's my general impression too.

    As for R1a and I2a, I do have a feeling the major subclades (the probably Cimmerian/Iranian-related Z93 seems quite insignificant in the Balkans, particularly in Greece) in the Balkans are of "Slavic" (or at least Dark Ages) origin but that map seems to overstate how common they are quite a bit (frankly, I'm not even sure if we have good general representative data on the Y-DNA front in general and various attempts I've seen at averaging them gave 10%+ differences) and you obviously can't correlate it 1:1 to early Slavic ancestry.

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