Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 39 of 79 FirstFirst ... 29373839404149 ... LastLast
Results 951 to 975 of 1973

Thread: Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

  1. #951
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    18-03-17
    Posts
    388
    Points
    2,786
    Level
    15
    Points: 2,786, Level: 15
    Level completed: 12%, Points required for next Level: 264
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Ethnic group
    swiss,italian
    Country: Germany



    then the description here is lying?
    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/autos...tml#West_Asian
    this is the additional admixture that was found in minoans isn't it? this was not present in the EEF that were used to produce the graphic here.
    so isn't it possible that it was placed, at least parts of it, on the yamna side since they also have caucasus related admixture?

  2. #952
    Princess Achievements:
    Overdrive10000 Experience PointsVeteranThree Friends
    davef's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,240
    Points
    12,148
    Level
    33
    Points: 12,148, Level: 33
    Level completed: 29%, Points required for next Level: 502
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian,Irish,Jewish
    Country: USA - New York



    Ok I think a Minoan is an EEF with more Caucasus, hopefully that helps. I'm a bit shaky so I'll have to re check things
    mmmmmmmmm dooouuughhhnuuuutz

  3. #953
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    16,512
    Points
    358,239
    Level
    100
    Points: 358,239, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    then the description here is lying?
    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/autos...tml#West_Asian
    this is the additional admixture that was found in minoans isn't it? this was not present in the EEF that were used to produce the graphic here.
    so isn't it possible that it was placed, at least parts of it, on the yamna side since they also have caucasus related admixture?
    What's this nonsense about lying? First of all, that comment and graphic are based on calculators using modern population clusters. Haak et al and all these more recent papers are based on a comparison with actual ancient samples.

    West Asian is a modern cluster containing EEF or ANF like alleles, CHG or Iran CHL like alleles, and even some steppe alleles. Some of those alleles would go into the EEF column and some into the Yamnaya column.

    I don't get what is so hard to understand.

    I'm not going to repeat myself over and over. Also, that wasn't the focus of this paper. Let's get back on topic.

    Minoans were overwhelmingly EEF like, with some CHG, Iran CHL. like additions.

    Please go back and re-read this paper, incl. the supplement.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  4. #954
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    18-03-17
    Posts
    388
    Points
    2,786
    Level
    15
    Points: 2,786, Level: 15
    Level completed: 12%, Points required for next Level: 264
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Ethnic group
    swiss,italian
    Country: Germany



    "West Asian is a modern cluster containing EEF or ANF like alleles, CHG or Iran CHL like alleles, and even some steppe alleles."

    yes and its distribution suggests that there is a varying number of caucasus like alleles in modern europeans that could have been attributed to yamna or eef by the algorithm that made this graphic.

    "Haak et al and all these more recent papers are based on a comparison with actual ancient samples."
    and thats the problem. there are admixtures not present in EEF and were not brought with yamna. so according to you the algorithm just placed them where they most likely come from. you said it placed them to EEF. but what makes you so sure about that?

    "Some of those alleles would go into the EEF column and some into the Yamnaya column. "

    thanks for actually finally answering the question. this means we do not know if we can just divide the yamna number by 2 because its composition changes depending on what geographical region you are looking.
    a spanish mighht have more EHG in his yamna than a greek or italian.

  5. #955
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger First Class1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Master Tagger
    Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    3,373
    Points
    146,926
    Level
    100
    Points: 146,926, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.3%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    yes and its distribution suggests that there is a varying number of caucasus like alleles in modern europeans that could have been attributed to yamna or eef by the algorithm that made this graphic.

    "Haak et al and all these more recent papers are based on a comparison with actual ancient samples."
    and thats the problem. there are admixtures not present in EEF and were not brought with yamna. so according to you the algorithm just placed them where they most likely come from. you said it placed them to EEF. but what makes you so sure about that?

    "Some of those alleles would go into the EEF column and some into the Yamnaya column. "

    thanks for actually finally answering the question. this means we do not know if we can just divide the yamna number by 2 because its composition changes depending on what geographical region you are looking.
    a spanish mighht have more EHG in his yamna than a greek or italian.
    You better watch your manners. Consider this a warning.

  6. #956
    Moderator Achievements:
    Tagger Second ClassThree Friends25000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    21-10-16
    Posts
    1,794
    Points
    32,804
    Level
    55
    Points: 32,804, Level: 55
    Level completed: 78%, Points required for next Level: 246
    Overall activity: 12.0%


    Ethnic group
    Multiracial Brazilian
    Country: Brazil



    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    "West Asian is a modern cluster containing EEF or ANF like alleles, CHG or Iran CHL like alleles, and even some steppe alleles."

    yes and its distribution suggests that there is a varying number of caucasus like alleles in modern europeans that could have been attributed to yamna or eef by the algorithm that made this graphic.

    "Haak et al and all these more recent papers are based on a comparison with actual ancient samples."
    and thats the problem. there are admixtures not present in EEF and were not brought with yamna. so according to you the algorithm just placed them where they most likely come from. you said it placed them to EEF. but what makes you so sure about that?

    "Some of those alleles would go into the EEF column and some into the Yamnaya column. "

    thanks for actually finally answering the question. this means we do not know if we can just divide the yamna number by 2 because its composition changes depending on what geographical region you are looking.
    a spanish mighht have more EHG in his yamna than a greek or italian.
    Is what you are trying to say that the CHG or Iranian_Chalcolithic admixture may have arrived in Europe by itself independently without any Yamnaya influence? Well, that situation has already been demonstrated for some ancient individuals even using those ancient population-based admixtures like EEF and Steppe Bronze Age. This is all of course not a supernatural oracle, but a scientific endeavour based, as everything in science, on higher probabilities. If you have a CHG introgression happening simultaneously with some Yamnaya-like admixture into the local gene pool it is most probable that it's not another independent migration wave. If you have lots of new CHG without any new EHG or, more specifically, any Yamnaya-like admixture, then it may have come with another people. These situations can be clarified by looking at the data closely without just relying on the literal meaning of the labels given to ease the analysis.

  7. #957
    Junior Member Achievements:
    31 days registered100 Experience Points

    Join Date
    26-02-18
    Posts
    3
    Points
    136
    Level
    1
    Points: 136, Level: 1
    Level completed: 86%, Points required for next Level: 14
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: United States



    Is this study based on mitochondrial DNA only?

  8. #958
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    16,512
    Points
    358,239
    Level
    100
    Points: 358,239, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Iapetos View Post
    Is this study based on mitochondrial DNA only?
    No, it's an autosomal study based on ancient genomes.

  9. #959
    Junior Member Achievements:
    31 days registered100 Experience Points

    Join Date
    26-02-18
    Posts
    3
    Points
    136
    Level
    1
    Points: 136, Level: 1
    Level completed: 86%, Points required for next Level: 14
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    No, it's an autosomal study based on ancient genomes.
    Sorry, but I'm unlearned when it comes to reading these scientific papers. All I see is references to mitochondrial DNA. Where do they mention autosomal DNA?

  10. #960
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    16,512
    Points
    358,239
    Level
    100
    Points: 358,239, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Iapetos View Post
    Sorry, but I'm unlearned when it comes to reading these scientific papers. All I see is references to mitochondrial DNA. Where do they mention autosomal DNA?
    Here is the link to the paper:

    Lazaridis et al:
    https://www.nature.com/articles/natu...o4hKeBf7fel4E9

    I should have said that the heart of the paper is autosomal analysis, but they do give uniparental data as well.

    Here's where they describe what they're doing...
    "We generated genome-wide data from 19 ancient samples"

    It will become clear as you read the paper how they use PCAs, Admixture, formal stats, etc. to analyze that genome wide data.

  11. #961
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered1000 Experience Points
    cybernautic's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-03-18
    Posts
    33
    Points
    1,070
    Level
    8
    Points: 1,070, Level: 8
    Level completed: 60%, Points required for next Level: 80
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Ethnic group
    Greek
    Country: UK - England



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diomedes View Post
    Does this article also prove the "Dorian Invasion" in a sense?
    Dorian invasion theory has been tested and disproven by geneticists.


    Triandafilidis says in his book "The genetic history of Greece" that there was no alteration in the genetic material
    of the Greek population Prior and After the event of the so-called Dorian invasion.

    Dorians after all were a Hellenic tribe who spoke a dialect of Greek and are described to trace their ancestor to the same
    common ancestor Hellen as the other Hellenic tribes,in Greek mythology

    Hellen was a son of Deukalion who was a Pelasgian according to ancient Greek tradition.


    Also except of the lack of any genetic evidence there is also lack of any archeological evidence to support
    the claim of such an event as referred to Dorian invasion.

  12. #962
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,119
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by cybernautic View Post
    Dorian invasion theory has been tested and disproven by geneticists.
    Triandafilidis says in his book "The genetic history of Greece" that there was no alteration in the genetic material
    of the Greek population Prior and After the event of the so-called Dorian invasion.
    Dorians after all were a Hellenic tribe who spoke a dialect of Greek and are described to trace their ancestor to the same
    common ancestor Hellen as the other Hellenic tribes,in Greek mythology
    Hellen was a son of Deukalion who was a Pelasgian according to ancient Greek tradition.
    Also except of the lack of any genetic evidence there is also lack of any archeological evidence to support
    the claim of such an event as referred to Dorian invasion.
    How disapproved ?
    Clearly the Dorians lived on the adriatic coast somewhere, how else did they have a navy to conquer crete, rhodes and other greek islands from the myceneans.
    my guess would be natural forested lands like modern Montenegro and south dalmatia for the timber. we are talking about bronze-age
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  13. #963
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered10000 Experience PointsThree Friends
    Johane Derite's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-06-17
    Posts
    1,047
    Points
    17,945
    Level
    40
    Points: 17,945, Level: 40
    Level completed: 87%, Points required for next Level: 105
    Overall activity: 5.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V13>Z5018>FGC33625
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U1a1a

    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by cybernautic View Post
    Dorian invasion theory has been tested and disproven by geneticists.


    Triandafilidis says in his book "The genetic history of Greece" that there was no alteration in the genetic material
    of the Greek population Prior and After the event of the so-called Dorian invasion.

    Dorians after all were a Hellenic tribe who spoke a dialect of Greek and are described to trace their ancestor to the same
    common ancestor Hellen as the other Hellenic tribes,in Greek mythology

    Hellen was a son of Deukalion who was a Pelasgian according to ancient Greek tradition.


    Also except of the lack of any genetic evidence there is also lack of any archeological evidence to support
    the claim of such an event as referred to Dorian invasion.
    If there was no Dorian invasion then there aree massive repercussions for how we understand the recent history of the greek state since its independance. The UK which greatly aided greece in its independance based a lot of its aid on German theories of the time. Dorian invasion was highly influential in how they thought of the region. For example:



    Now, removed from time its quite clear there is something strange, maybe even propagandistic happening in this article, no?

    Another example:





    This is from a book on sale at Sothebys auctions. What striked me as quite strange was that this drawing was cropped unlike everyother drawing in the book. The part that was cropped was the description of the subject. For example one says greek man one says arcadian etc. I found another version of the book scanned online where the description is not cropped though and it says clearly Officier Albanais.

    If the Dorian invasion theory and many other theories turn out to be wrong then this will be truly embarrassing as so much politics was based on these theories.
    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

  14. #964
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered1000 Experience Points
    cybernautic's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-03-18
    Posts
    33
    Points
    1,070
    Level
    8
    Points: 1,070, Level: 8
    Level completed: 60%, Points required for next Level: 80
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Ethnic group
    Greek
    Country: UK - England



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    How disapproved ?
    Clearly the Dorians lived on the adriatic coast somewhere,
    Any proofs that Dorians lived on the adriatic coast first and came from there to Greece?

    how else did they have a navy to conquer crete, rhodes and other greek islands from the myceneans.

    And you think Greeks in Mainland Greece and the Aegean didn't have a navy?

    The strongest Naval force in the ancient Greek Mainland were Athenians by the way who
    were Ionians.

    Ever heard about the Delian leage?





    my guess would be natural forested lands like modern Montenegro and south dalmatia for the timber. we are talking about bronze-age
    My guess is not!

    At best Dorians or Mycanaeans moved from Greece to these regions at the Adriatic coast and
    settled there.

    Archeologists have found Mycanaean settlements in Croatia for example

    In fact Ancient Greeks colonized and settled along all the Adriatic coast ,in Italy
    and even the coast of Southern France.


    Your argumentation is weak.

    I'm entitled to disagree with you without remorse of conscience unless you bring forward something
    much stronger than that
    Last edited by cybernautic; 09-03-18 at 05:24.

  15. #965
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    30-08-17
    Posts
    176
    Points
    3,539
    Level
    17
    Points: 3,539, Level: 17
    Level completed: 23%, Points required for next Level: 311
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    How disapproved ?
    Clearly the Dorians lived on the adriatic coast somewhere, how else did they have a navy to conquer crete, rhodes and other greek islands from the myceneans.
    my guess would be natural forested lands like modern Montenegro and south dalmatia for the timber. we are talking about bronze-age
    The Dorian invasion theory is not supported by archaeology, it's an outdated theory, there is no evidence of an "Adriatic" or Balkan invasion of Greece during the late bronze age, there was however a Balkan movement towards Anatolia, for example at Troy where Balkan pottery is widespread after the destruction, which I think could be associated with the Phrygian colonization and conquest of part of Anatolia..

  16. #966
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    09-03-17
    Posts
    110
    Points
    1,744
    Level
    11
    Points: 1,744, Level: 11
    Level completed: 65%, Points required for next Level: 106
    Overall activity: 14.0%


    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by cybernautic View Post
    Dorian invasion theory has been tested and disproven by geneticists.
    This is an old post and all and a "Dorian invasion" might not even be particularly detectible but the idea that it has been "tested and disproven" somehow is not quite true. I'm not sure where you got it but until we have more ancient data...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pygmalion View Post
    The Dorian invasion theory is not supported by archaeology, it's an outdated theory, there is no evidence of an "Adriatic" or Balkan invasion of Greece during the late bronze age, there was however a Balkan movement towards Anatolia, for example at Troy where Balkan pottery is widespread after the destruction, which I think could be associated with the Phrygian colonization and conquest of part of Anatolia..
    Yes, the most likely theory in my view is that they basically lived in relatively close contact with the Mycenaean world, northwest of it. Why do you think a Balkan invasion (with some potential ties even further north) of sorts is out of the question for the LBA though? We have findings of likely Central European, Carpathian or Balkan inspiration though some like new sword types are probably due to trade/cultural diffusion. Similarly with Troy which as you said has Balkan parallels in its pottery. At the same time like you mention various populations like the ones we later know as Phrygians, Illyrians and others seem to be moving generally more southerly and easterly.

  17. #967
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    30-08-17
    Posts
    176
    Points
    3,539
    Level
    17
    Points: 3,539, Level: 17
    Level completed: 23%, Points required for next Level: 311
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Italy



    @LATGAL The sword types were the closest to the Naue II Italian sword types, which were in turn based on the Danubian ones, and Reinhard Jung explains it pretty well in his latest papers, so the connection between Mycenaean Naue II and the Danubian ones is not direct. Also the Aegean yielded far more South Italian pottery than Balkan pottery, and no one talks about a proto Italic invasion of Greece, so the theory that the Dorians came from far away is to be discarded, also no Balkan like pottery has ever been found in the Levantine coast or at Cyprus which makes it unlikely that Balkan people were part of the sea peoples, unlike Italian pottery that has been found as far as Lebanon.

  18. #968
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    ihype02's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    321
    Points
    2,679
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,679, Level: 14
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 71
    Overall activity: 16.0%


    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post

    Y dna from page 52 of the supplement:
    Attachment 8992
    I was searching for this all over the thread and didn't recognize it in the first page. Just 'bumping it up' in case it would help someone else like me.

  19. #969
    Regular Member Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,119
    Points
    29,699
    Level
    52
    Points: 29,699, Level: 52
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 51
    Overall activity: 37.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by cybernautic View Post
    Any proofs that Dorians lived on the adriatic coast first and came from there to Greece?
    And you think Greeks in Mainland Greece and the Aegean didn't have a navy?
    The strongest Naval force in the ancient Greek Mainland were Athenians by the way who
    were Ionians.
    Ever heard about the Delian leage?
    My guess is not!
    At best Dorians or Mycanaeans moved from Greece to these regions at the Adriatic coast and
    settled there.
    Archeologists have found Mycanaean settlements in Croatia for example
    In fact Ancient Greeks colonized and settled along all the Adriatic coast ,in Italy
    and even the coast of Southern France.
    Your argumentation is weak.
    I'm entitled to disagree with you without remorse of conscience unless you bring forward something
    much stronger than that
    The dorians had to have a navy to conquer all the islands, crete, rhodes, santorini etc and the only place to get the timber apart from the north adriatic was the coast of modern montenegro ( black mountains....black because it was heavily infested with forests )
    your theory that they conquered greece without a navy is very illogical
    .
    the dorian fleet was replaced by the Corinthian fleet on that side of Greece ~800BC.............the only way your theory works is if you believe the dorians never existed and I will accept this Greek fable/dreams theory.........the other theory is that it took 200 years for this invasion to occur and the dorians came in from North East of the greeks , most likely a thracian sub-group

  20. #970
    Junior Member Achievements:
    31 days registered100 Experience Points

    Join Date
    26-02-18
    Posts
    3
    Points
    136
    Level
    1
    Points: 136, Level: 1
    Level completed: 86%, Points required for next Level: 14
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    If the Mycenaeans and Minoans were not genetically dissimilar, then what implications does this have for the Indo-European theory with regard to Greece?

  21. #971
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    71
    Posts
    4,484
    Points
    44,656
    Level
    65
    Points: 44,656, Level: 65
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 894
    Overall activity: 7.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by Iapetos View Post
    If the Mycenaeans and Minoans were not genetically dissimilar, then what implications does this have for the Indo-European theory with regard to Greece?
    I'm not too interested to date, waiting for more samples -
    question: have the Mycenians killed all the Minoans? If not, could the assimilation of these last ones have reduced the supposed 'steppe' weight in the Mycenians studied here, 'steppe' element that could have been already reduced beforehand during penetration of the Southeastern Balkans?
    I 've no credo here, just try to reasoning; the coming of ancient Greeks through Anatolia is maybe not stupid but who knows to date? Mycenians are still a bit different from Minoans, for I think -
    &: our datations are vague and span over long time; it can mistake us sometimes - we have not always the "first juice" of the newcomers. Same problem with Chalco and Bronze of Armenia -

  22. #972
    Princess Achievements:
    Overdrive10000 Experience PointsVeteranThree Friends
    davef's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-06-16
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,240
    Points
    12,148
    Level
    33
    Points: 12,148, Level: 33
    Level completed: 29%, Points required for next Level: 502
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italian,Irish,Jewish
    Country: USA - New York



    No mycenaens did not kill off the Minoans, they descend from them with additional steppe.

  23. #973
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,331
    Points
    113,888
    Level
    100
    Points: 113,888, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    No mycenaens did not kill off the Minoans, they descend from them with additional steppe.
    Yes, pretty much so. Though we have to keep in mind that Anatolia and Greece with part of Balkans looked identical genetically. Same type of Neolithic Farmer. They were all Minoans like.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  24. #974
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    71
    Posts
    4,484
    Points
    44,656
    Level
    65
    Points: 44,656, Level: 65
    Level completed: 32%, Points required for next Level: 894
    Overall activity: 7.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Yes, pretty much so. Though we have to keep in mind that Anatolia and Greece with part of Balkans looked identical genetically. Same type of Neolithic Farmer. They were all Minoans like.
    It was just my points: Southeastern Balkans already Chalco-anatolian-like so not Mycenians absorbed into Minoans but maybe Minoans kept among Mycenians; dating the Greek language phonetic evolution could be interesting -BTW -

  25. #975
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    ihype02's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    321
    Points
    2,679
    Level
    14
    Points: 2,679, Level: 14
    Level completed: 77%, Points required for next Level: 71
    Overall activity: 16.0%


    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by cybernautic View Post
    Archeologists have found Mycanaean settlements in Croatia for example
    Where?

    ----

Page 39 of 79 FirstFirst ... 29373839404149 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •