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Thread: Nikola Tesla was not I2a but R1a

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    His ancestors were not from Macedonia, his earlieast ancestors were from Raška (Sandžak) which is the heart of Serbian medieval state.
    Where are the records?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Only rellation of Tesla with Croatians is that because his was born on the territory of modern Croatia, but there was no Croatia when he was born, Croatia is created in year 1991 and Tesla was born 1856 (Tesla is 135 years older than Croatia).

    Tesla was born in Austrian Empire (Millitary Frontier) and not in Croatia.
    Don't be silly. The territory we are talking about is the heart of the Croatian medieval state. What difference does it make if it was used as a military frontier against Turks? How can you say that it was not Croatia?

    Use the same standards when talk about Serbia. Serbia literaly didn't exist for 400 years, after Turks stormed it. Take a look at your own sentence on the top of this post...

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    Nikola Tesla was born an ethnic Serb in village Smiljan , Lika country, in the Austrian Empire (present day Croatia), on the 10 July.
    His father, Milutin Tesla (1819-1879), was and Orthodox priest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#Early_years

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    Yes, we know that Croatia was a part of Hapsburg Empire. ^ ^ ^

    I am just telling you to use same standards when you speak about Serbia. You said that Tesla's ancestors came from Sanjak. Yes, that was the part of Turkish Empire at the time. Wasn't it?

    Or do you think that the text "Serbia" was written in their passports?

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    Nikola Tesla was greater scientist and it is good to see he is respected on this forum.

    Tesla’s father Milutin was Serbian Orthodox priest. Tesla’s mother Georgina was from Serbian Orthodox family too, her father Nikola Mandic was Serbian Orthodox priest and her grandfather, too.

    One of informative website of Tesla is website of The Tesla Science Foundation, in Narberth, Pennsilvania, USA.
    http://teslasciencefoundation.org/who-was-nikola-tesla/

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    ^^ Absolutely. Every nation would like to "have it". It is sad that Serbian cultural institution Matica Srpska didn't recognize him:

    1878. MATICA SRPSKA IN NOVI SAD REJECTS APPLICATION FOR STIPENDIUM
    Matica Srpska had already rejected his first application, submitted on October 14, 1876. In his new application to the “celebrated Matica Srpska”, he asked for a stipendium to complete “engineering studies” in Vienna or Prague, but was refused a second time. Apparently he did not regard this as a slight from the oldest and most highly-regarded Serbian cultural, literary and scientific institution because, as a world-famous scientist, he became a member in 1902.
    I'd realy like to know the reasons why they rejected him...

    @Garrick, thank you for this precious link!

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    @ Wonomyro

    You are declared half-Gypsy and in the same time you're Croatian natinalist, I never before heard for such something. LOL

    My point is that Tesla was not Croatian origin, there is no evidence for that.

    Tesla had Serbian national consciousness and that is the most important (he was of real Serbian origin), deal with it.

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    @Bachus,

    I am not more nationalist that you. I would say less.

    My point is that Tesla is not Serbian. His connections with Serbia is fantasy. His roots and the family ancestry is in Croatia. His Serb identity is due to confessional and cultural reasons. We are talking here about genetic origin. Dont we? That has nothing to do with the cultural labels. Therefore the last thing we need here are some fake ancestries invented by nationalists for building the national self-esteem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonomyro View Post
    @Bachus,

    I am not more nationalist that you. I would say less.

    My point is that Tesla is not Serbian. His connections with Serbia is fantasy. His roots and the family ancestry is in Croatia. His Serb identity is due to confessional and cultural reasons. We are talking here about genetic origin. Dont we? That has nothing to do with the cultural labels. Therefore the last thing we need here are some fake ancestries invented by nationalists for building the national self-esteem.
    Of course that we talking about genetic origin, and haplogroup R1a-M458 is more typical for eastern than for western Balkkans, almost all Croatian R1a is Z280 (Carpathian-Dalmatian branch).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Of course that we talking about genetic origin, and haplogroup R1a-M458 is more typical for eastern than for western Balkkans, almost all Croatian R1a is Z280 (Carpathian-Dalmatian branch).
    There are plenty of R1a-458 in Croatia as well. Some north Adriatic islands (Cres e.g.) has it 50% of all R1a.

    How many in Serbia?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonomyro View Post
    There are plenty of R1a-458 in Croatia as well. Some north Adriatic islands (Cres e.g.) has it 50% of all R1a.

    How many in Serbia?
    Northern Adriatic islands has R1a-Z280 (Carpathian-Dalmatian branch), not R1a-M458.

    About Serbian R1a-M458 you can see here https://dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedi...grp-filter=R1a

    Kirgyzs have 65% R1a which is more than Russians and Poles, according to your logic Tesla is of Kyrgyzian origin!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Northern Adriatic islands has R1a-Z280 (Carpathian-Dalmatian branch), not R1a-M458.
    That is not true.

    Here are the results from a study. The names represent islands:

    R1a1a1b1a1-M458
    -----------------------
    Cres = 27/99
    Dugi otok = 2/44
    Mljet = 2/39
    Pag = 1/33
    Pašman = 1/42
    Ugljan = 3/68

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...22876/abstract

    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    About Serbian R1a-M458 you can see here https://dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedi...grp-filter=R1a
    Data from Poreklo is not representative. There is a recent study on Serbia. Isn't there?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Kirgyzs have 65% R1a which is more than Russians and Poles, according to your logic Tesla is of Kyrgyzian origin!?
    That was a very stupid comment. Tesla's ancestors lived for centuries in Croatia, not in Kyrgyzia. Therefore Croatian data is the most relevant. We see that, the very likely, pre-Otoman invasion population had quite enough of R1a-458 haplogroup.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Northern Adriatic islands has R1a-Z280 (Carpathian-Dalmatian branch), not R1a-M458.

    About Serbian R1a-M458 you can see here https://dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedi...grp-filter=R1a

    Kirgyzs have 65% R1a which is more than Russians and Poles, according to your logic Tesla is of Kyrgyzian origin!?

    Kyrgyz dont belong to M458 though, do they? Serbian R1a is overwhelmingly Z280. Croatia is the only Western Balkan country with significant amounts of M458. Outside of Bulgaria Macedonia and Northern Greece that is. Romania has a good amount too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    Kyrgyz dont belong to M458 though, do they? Serbian R1a is overwhelmingly Z280. Croatia is the only Western Balkan country with significant amounts of M458. Outside of Bulgaria Macedonia and Northern Greece that is. Romania has a good amount too.
    Serbian R1a-M458 in Krajina came from the central Balkans (Raška, Kosovo and central Serbia) and not from serbized Croatians, because Serbs were never assimilated any Croatians, unlike Croatians who assimilated a lot of Serbs.

    Serbs from Lika (in Croatia) have around 20% R1a and 70% is M458, unlike them Croatians from Lika and neighboring regions have mostly Z280 (Carpathian-Dalmatian branchs).

    If Tesla was Carpathian-Dalmatian branch of R1a-Z280 it would be a chance that he is of Croatian origin by male line, but Tesla was R1a-M458 which very rare for Croatians from Lika and near Lika. Croatians who have M458 are from some other region which are fair awyy from Lika.

    Tesla is the closest to Serbian family Plećaš from Lika, and he is also close to Serbian family Zdravković from central Serbia and Kuzmić from Bosnia near Banja Luka.

    Tesla is not close to Croatian holders of R1a-M458.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Serbian R1a-M458 in Krajina came from the central Balkans (Raška, Kosovo and central Serbia) and not from serbized Croatians, because Serbs were never assimilated any Croatians, unlike Croatians who assimilated a lot of Serbs.

    Serbs from Lika (in Croatia) have around 20% R1a and 70% is M458, unlike them Croatians from Lika and neighboring regions have mostly Z280 (Carpathian-Dalmatian branchs).

    If Tesla was Carpathian-Dalmatian branch of R1a-Z280 it would be a chance that he is of Croatian origin by male line, but Tesla was R1a-M458 which very rare for Croatians from Lika and near Lika. Croatians who have M458 are from some other region which are fair awyy from Lika.

    Tesla is the closest to Serbian family Plećaš from Lika, and he is also close to Serbian family Zdravković from central Serbia and Kuzmić from Bosnia near Banja Luka.

    Tesla is not close to Croatian holders of R1a-M458.
    Listen to yourself. Serbia as a whole is predominantly Z280. Croatian R1a is predominantly M458. And thats not because of Serbs.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Serbian R1a-M458 in Krajina came from the central Balkans (Raška, Kosovo and central Serbia) and not from serbized Croatians, because Serbs were never assimilated any Croatians, unlike Croatians who assimilated a lot of Serbs.
    What makes you so sure that Draganić’s R1a-M458 comes from “central Balkans”, and not from the neighbouring areas in Croatia? Especially after I presented you information about the 14th century nobility of Šibenik whose surname was Draganić. Šibenik is not far from Knin and Lika.

    The thesis that “Serbs were never assimilated any Croatians” simple does not hold the truth. There were no Serbian churches in Croatia and Bosnia before Osman conquest. Just compare the maps “before” and “after” and calculate the balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Serbs from Lika (in Croatia) have around 20% R1a and 70% is M458, unlike them Croatians from Lika and neighboring regions have mostly Z280 (Carpathian-Dalmatian branchs).
    What paper?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    If Tesla was Carpathian-Dalmatian branch of R1a-Z280 it would be a chance that he is of Croatian origin by male line, but Tesla was R1a-M458 which very rare for Croatians from Lika and near Lika. Croatians who have M458 are from some other region which are fair awyy from Lika.
    Draganićs came from Dalmatia to Lika. Haplos of Lika's Croatians are not important for comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Tesla is the closest to Serbian family Plećaš from Lika, and he is also close to Serbian family Zdravković from central Serbia and Kuzmić from Bosnia near Banja Luka.

    Tesla is not close to Croatian holders of R1a-M458.
    Not convincing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    Listen to yourself. Serbia as a whole is predominantly Z280. Croatian R1a is predominantly M458. And thats not because of Serbs.

    That data is unfortunately outdated. Most of these 458 turned to be 558 due to some mistake. The most recent paper corrected that. However, there are still fair enough of 458 in Croatia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    Listen to yourself. Serbia as a whole is predominantly Z280. Croatian R1a is predominantly M458. And thats not because of Serbs.

    Tesla is close only to few Serbian holders of R1a-M458, and he is far away from Croatian holders of R1a-M458.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonomyro View Post
    @Garrick, thank you for this precious link!
    Yes, but what I see discussion went down.

    One Croat and one Albanian cannot accept the fact, Nikola Tesla is Serb.

    It is pure Balkan jealousy, it typically gives a picture of Balkans and Balkanites, unfortunately.



    Monument of Nikola Tesla in New York, USA
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    Yes, but what I see discussion went down.

    One Croat and one Albanian cannot accept the fact, Nikola Tesla is Serb.

    It is pure Balkan jealousy, it typically gives a picture of Balkans and Balkanites, unfortunately.

    Monument of Nikola Tesla in New York, USA
    Well, it seems that our friends, Serbians can't accept that Tesla has nothing to do with Serbia, even more.

    Just for fun, here is a page of Tesla's passport (Croatian: PUTOVNICA):

    https://sh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datote...esla_01082.JPG

    The coat of arms in the middle of the page is this one (coloured):

    https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datoteka:Coa_Croatia_Country_History_(with_crown)_ (1868-1918).svg

    Edit: There was an argument here, earlier, that Tesla can't be from Croatia because "Croatia didn't exist then". Now we see that not only that Croatia existed, but also that Tesla had its passport.
    Last edited by Wonomyro; 06-01-18 at 21:47.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    Not certain. This information (with regards to northwest macedonia origin) was in a forum

    Makes sense. M458-L1029 is practically non-existent/negligible among Serbs. M458 in the Balkans seems most common in Bulgarians, Macedonians, Croatians and Northern Greeks.
    This is wrong.

    *
    M458-L1029 is represented among Serbs in Serbia, Bosnia and Croatia.

    In Poreklo.rs you can see 46 tested Serbs and 1 Bosniac are M458-L1029.
    https://dnk.poreklo.rs/naslovna/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    This is wrong. * M458-L1029 is represented among Serbs in Serbia, Bosnia and Croatia. In Poreklo.rs you can see 46 tested Serbs and 1 Bosniac are M458-L1029. https://dnk.poreklo.rs/naslovna/
    Oops! He could be Bosniac too!

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    I hope this helps....
    https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Tesla-1
    Its a comprehensive family tree of Tesla's which even lists the places of birth of his ancestors in this tree. I haven't seen it all yet, but it seems informative.
    mmmmmmmmmm doughnuuuuutz

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    ..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonomyro View Post
    Well, it seems that our friends, Serbians can't accept that Tesla has nothing to do with Serbia, even more. Just for fun, here is a page of Tesla's passport (Croatian: PUTOVNICA): https://sh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datote...esla_01082.JPG The coat of arms in the middle of the page is this one (coloured): https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datote...1868-1918).svg
    Someone can think that earth is plane, and all what he wants, it didn't change facts.

    Point of my writing is that is ugly (but unfortunately typical Balkan) that bickering is about such greater man, and why, only because Nikola Tesla was Serb, and yes, Nikola Tesla was American too.

    Therefore in his monument in New York is written: Nikola Tesla, Serbian and American.

    *
    After the death of Nikola Tesla, an American court, in January 1943, awarded custody of his property to Sava Kosanovic, the son of Tesla’s youngest sister Marica, Sava Kosanovic was a Serbian politician, publicist and diplomat who, at that time, was living in New York as a member of the Royal Yugoslav Government-in-exile.

    For everyone who visits Belgrade recommendation is to visit Nikola Tesla museum.
    http://www.tesla-museum.org/web/page.php?p=4&s=89&l=en

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    Someone can think that earth is plane, and all what he wants, it didn't change facts.

    Point of my writing is that is ugly (but unfortunately typical Balkan) that bickering is about such greater man, and why, only because Nikola Tesla was Serb, and yes, Nikola Tesla was American too.

    Therefore in his monument in New York write: Nikola Tesla, Serbian and American.

    *

    After the death of Nikola Tesla, an American court, in January 1943, awarded custody of his property to Sava Kosanovic, the son of Tesla’s youngest sister Marica, Sava Kosanovic was a Serbian politician, publicist and diplomat who, at that time, was living in New York as a member of the Royal Yugoslav Government-in-exile.

    For everyone who visits Belgrade recommendation is to visit Nikola Tesla museum.
    http://www.tesla-museum.org/web/page.php?p=4&s=89&l=en
    That's a surface. We wish to know secrets...

    For instance, why Tesla's private archive ended up in Belgrade, a capital of Serbia?

    Tesla's wished his personal things to be kept in his homeland.

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