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Who don't like facts he can try with secrets (probably one of the most famous researcher of secrets was Erich von Daniken, his approach is interesting, but unscientific).Originally Posted by Wonomyro
We heard about Tesla's secret diary, kept in the State Archive in Belgrade, which is not published for some reason...
first and foremost i like the fact that n.tesla is an M458+L1029er (obvious reasons) first and only prominent of the M458+ lineage to begin with; but i have seen different data for the balkan, for sure Z280+ is the most dominant yet M458+ is very seldom throughout but most common (sample count) in bulgaria followed by serbia; though in underhill et al only croatian samples are listed by M458+ and no serbian samples but these were as i understand it selected R1a samples to begin with;Listen to yourself. Serbia as a whole is predominantly Z280. Croatian R1a is predominantly M458. And thats not because of Serbs.
overall M458+ is most present n70/123 in modern lusatian sorbs with earliest M458+ so far found in medieval wilzen[lechic-wends] gravefield on usedom, it seems as if the slavic expansion towards the elbe/saale and into old-thuringia rednitz/upper-main was mostly carried by M458+ slavs (polabian-lechs/sorbs) whereas the slavs expanding into the balkan were mostly carried Z280+ (plus I2aDin); the ancestral clade Z283+ is so far earliest Kun2 2500-2300bc Corded-Ware(estonia); rebala et al (pre-war data)
Sorben (n=123) 65.0% R1a1a M17+/M198+ davon 8.1% R1a1a M17*+ und 56.9% R1a1a1b1a1 M458+
Bayern (n=218) 12.3% R1a1a M17+/M198+ davon 4.5% R1a1a M17*+ und 7.7% R1a1a1b1a1 M458+
Nobody will think more highly of Croatia or Serbia if you somehow win the pointless Tesla nationality/Y-DNA debate. Most of the world does not care. As someone already commented, Tesla is more of an American creation.
Forget about winning the pitiful national credit for Nikola! If Croatia and Serbia are such a fertile grounds for great minds, (and there are some like Ivan Mestrovic, Mihajlo Pupin ... oh, yes Bill Belichick the czar of American football) why not focus on creating more opportunities for your children? In Balkans, there is never the focus on the fostering creative economy, eliminating widespread corruption, electing leaders for other than nationalistic platforms and improving the lives of all your people. Instead of promoting divisive personalities (Milosevic, Tudjman ... ahh, so many to name) who use nationality for their personal gain, focus on making the real change. Cherish your creative talent and make many opportunities for them in your little nations. Celebrate different nationalities and the diversity they bring to your talent pool. Promote the real values.
Much less DNA difference between Croats and Serbs than you see in Germany, Italy, Australia, Canada or America. Yet, they stay together and some got bigger and stronger. Your Tesla potentials are going there for more opportunity and a better life. Croatia and Serbia, you are not in a nationalistic Balkan war for the credits of the past. There is more to be ashamed of than to be proud of. You are in the economic war and you are decisively losing it. Those other nations ... they are very happy with receiving your brightest talent and they do not care about Y-DNA or from which Draganić are their parents.
Last edited by Zvrk9; 06-01-18 at 08:51. Reason: typos
Serbs who are R1a-M458
Вујатовић (Vujatović) - Bosanska Krajina/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Кецман-Шпирић (Kecman-Špirić) - Drinić/Bosnia
Кувељић (Kuveljić) - Prijepolje/Serbia
Чајић (Čajić)- Aleksandrovac/Serbia
Лончар (Lončar) - Pjevlja/Montenegro
Недин (Nedin) - Banat/Serbia
Кесић (Kesić) - Gračac/Croatia
Аћин (Aćin) - Zrenjanin/Serbia
Драгаш (Dragaš) - Drvar/Bosnia and herzegovica
Николић (Nikolić) - Valjevo/Serbia
Жакула (Žakula) - Korenica/Croatia
Обрадовић (Obradović) - Čajniče/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Чоловић (Čolović) - Nikšić/Montenegro
Нанић (Nanić) - Zaječar/Serbia
Миловановић (Milovanović)
Стевић (Stević) - Zvornik/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Зековић (Zeković) - Šavnik/Montenegro
Ивић (Ivić) - Golubac/Serbia
Калањ (Kalanj) - Udbina/Croatia
Кликовац (Klikovac) - Podgorica/Montenegro
Благојевић (Blagojević) - Aleksandrovac/Serbia
Новаковић (Novaković) - Ugljevik/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Павковић (Pavković) - Gračac/Croatia
Чајетинац (Čajetinac) - Trstenik/Serbia
Мандић (Mandić) - Čačak/Serbia
Бајић (Bajić) - Bugojno/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Перјаничић (Perjaničić) - Aleksandrovac/Serbia
Благојевић (Blagojević) - Piva/Montenegro
Радовић (Radović) - Foča/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Ракић (Rakić) - Kosovo Polje/Serbia
Курандић (Kurandić) - Raška/Serbia
Кузмић (Kuzmić) - Kotor Varoš/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Тесла (Tesla) - Raduč/Croatia
Плећаш (Plećaš) - Gospić/Croatia
Здравковић (Zdravković) - Brus/Serbia
Путица (Putica) - Trebinje/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Опанчина (Opančina - Prijepolje/Serbia
Ђуровић (Đurović) - Prijepolje/Serbia
Матић (Matić) - Aleksandrovac/Serbia
Трипић (Tripić) - Maglaj/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Трипић (Tripić) - Maglaj/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Перишић (Perišić) - Sarajevo/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Дуњић (Dunjić) - Aleksandrovac/Serbia
Дуњић (Dunjić) -Aleksandrovac/Serbia
Јојић (Jojić) - Bajina Bašta/Serbia
Бурмазовић (Burmazović) - Loznica/Serbia
Милинковић (Milinković) - Ub/Serbia
Аксић (Aksić) - Vitina/Serbia
Јовановић (Jovanović) - Kraljevo/Serbia
Недељковић (Nedeljković) -Kruševac/Serbia
Танкосић (Tankosić) - Drvar/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Бурсаћ (Bursać) - Bihać/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Бурсаћ (Bursać) - Knin/Croatia
Баук (Bauk) - Drvar/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Зељковић (Zeljković) - Bihać/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Радаковић (Radaković) - Karlovac/Croatia
Кнез (Arnaut) - Vrlika/Croatia
Арнаут (Arnaut) - Vrlika/Croatia
Арнаут (Arnaut) - Vrlika/Croatia
Арнаут (Arnaut) - Vrlika/Croatia
Рашета (Rašeta) - Donji Lapac/Croatia
Јањетовић (Janjetović) - Banja Luka/ Bosnia and Herzegovina
Маричић (Maričić) - Brinje/Croatia
Злојутро (Zlojutro) - Kozarska Dubica/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Тодоровић (Todorović) - Mali Zvornik/Serbia
Рашковић (Rašković) - Aleksandrovac/Serbia
Шишаковић (Šišaković) - Sremska Mitrovica/Serbia
Драгичевић (Dragičević) - Croatia
Сенте (Sente) - Bačka/Serbia
Арсић (Arsić) - Svilajnac/Serbia
Јеленковић (Jelenković) - Aleksandrovac/Serbia
In "Serbian DNA project" there is a 277 ethnic Serbs which are R1a, and 71 is M458, which means that among Serbs M458 is 25,6% of total R1a.
https://dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedi...grp-filter=R1a
Last edited by Bachus; 06-01-18 at 14:09.
With all respect, this topic IS about genetics, and therefore we should "care about Y-DNA or from which Draganić are their parents".
Generally, I think that we should avoid politics unless it is related to the matter of discussion. Especially we should avoid negative sterotypes about nations and stick to the facts instead.
I see many potential relatives in the list. Statistics is not just blind counting. We should stick to scientific papers instead.
Also mind that these are the 20-21th century self-declared Serbs, mostly from Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina. I am afraid that we know about their ethnic past even less than we know about Draganić clan past.
Whose relatives you see?
I see many people with the same surmames from the same villages. I can't be sure whether they are indeed relatives or not, but it is very likely that they are not distant. Data in this form should not be used in any percentage calculations. The samples should pass the rigorous filtering before we can be confident that it is representative.
There is a recent scientific study on Serbia population, why don't you present that data?
Only Tripić from Maglaj, Dunjić from Aleksandrovac, and Arnaut from Vrlika are the same surnames from same places, even without them statistics would not change much.
There is scientific study only for Župa region in central Serbia, studies for other regions and for whole Serbia has not been done yet.
Here it is. Out of 204 samples there were as much as 3 of R1a-M458 found:
http://www.fsigenetics.com/article/S1872-4973(17)30155-2/pdfID09SerPop Serbia [Serbian] North R1a Z282>M458>> L1029
ID64SerPop Serbia [Serbian] South R1a Z282>M458>> L260>>Y2905
ID141SerPop Serbia [Serbian] Center R1a Z282>M458>> L1029
In the study for Župa region in central Serbia R1a is 20,34% , but I dont know what is the relation between Z280 and M458 (Župa region is samall pert of central Serbia)
This is result for Župa region
I hope that you understand that percentages of M458 in the region are not informative enough in this matter.
Regarding, Serbia, we should also take into account that the big deal of the present Serbian population has roots in the previously non (or not major) Serb-Orthodox areas of Bosnia, Dalmatia, Herzegovina, Montenegro etc.
This is no proof, we can not believe on your word that they are not relatives. If you have scientific work which proves something show it.
Many Tesla from Croatia came to America at the end of the 19th century, and many of them declaring themselves as Croats under race. We have few people who declare themselves as Serbian. Nikola Tesla declares itself as Austrian under nationality, far as I know. But I think that on his emigration list is not column with.race of people
https://www.libertyellisfoundation.org/passenger
Yes, that is true. In the Ellis Island immigration records in the period 1892.—1924. there were plenty of Tesla's who declared themselves as Croats.
http://www.ellisisland.org/
It was mentioned in the paper (unfortunately in Croatian but Serbs are welcome to read it):
http://hrcak.srce.hr/index.php?show=...ak_jezik=68919
I've translated the key sentence:
This is in line with what I was argumenting in my previous posts.There were 89 persons with the surname Tesla of which 29 Croats and 5 Serbs. There are also many present day "tipical" Serbian names (actually Serbian Orthodox) in a database all recorded as Croats.
And what, a lot of Serbs and Croats have same surnames, in Serbia today you can find surname Tesla how many want (of course some people of them migrated from Lika and Dalmatia).
Difference between who is Serb and who is Croat when modern nations developed, determined faith, (language was practically same in shtokavian areas).
The Croats are Roman Catholic, the Serbs have Serbian Orthodox church.
The father of Nikola Tesla was priest of Serbian Orthodox church, the father of his mother was priest of Serbian Orthodox church, too.
Houston teacher archive, US
http://teachertech.rice.edu/Particip...ons/Tesla.html
"Nikola Tesla was born at precisely midnight between July 9/10, 1856, in the village of Smiljan, province of Lika (Austria-Hungary). His father, the Reverend Milutin Tesla, was a Serbian-Orthodox priest; his mother, Djuka (Mandich), was unschooled but highly intelligent. Both families came originally from western Serbia and for generations had sent their sons to serve Church or Army and their daughters to marry ministers or officers."
*
People can bicker infinitely but in the end they get nothing.
Nikola Tesla was born as Serb, he lived and made results in America, and he was American, and of course, he belongs to entire humanity.
Croatians race does not exist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(...ategorization)
Nikola Tesla was declared and proud Serb, and you can cry for that as much as you want it will not change, Tesla will be Serb forever.
Tesla is not relateed with Croatians in any aspect, he was born in territory of modern Croatia, when he was born Croatia did not exist!!!
Native village of Nikola Tesla is part of Croatia since 1991 and that was 135 years after Tesla's birth, DEAL WITH IT!!!
Nikola Tesla was born at precisely midnight between July 9/10, 1856, in the village of Smiljan, province of Lika (Austria-Hungary). His father, the Reverend Milutin Tesla, was a Serbian-Orthodox priest; his mother, Djuka (Mandich), was unschooled but highly intelligent. Both families came originally from western Serbia and for generations had sent their sons to serve Church or Army and their daughters to marry ministers or officers."
Show me documents that prove it (western Serbia theory).
There are many Vlachs in this area that no longer exist, we can assume that and part of Croats has converted to Orthodoxy, for that reason priest of the Serbian Orthodox Church could be anyone.The father of Nikola Tesla was priest of Serbian Orthodox church, the father of his mother was priest of Serbian Orthodox church, too.
This is proof that there are also Orthodox Croatians exist in our area.Mehmed-paša Sokolović, the great vizier of the Ottoman Empire, he 1566 gives commandment on the occasion of the Greek Patriarch, in which he says: " Emperor give eferman that Roman friars in Budim, Timisoara and Dubrovnik and from the Croatian people
do not ask charity, if that people belong to the Greek patriarch.
Last edited by hrvat22; 08-01-18 at 11:08.
And I am proud Serbian but we are talking about the origins of the Tesla family, maybe his ancestors are Turkish, we do not know that.Nikola Tesla was declared and proud Serb, and you can cry for that as much as you want it will not change
Novak Đoković is also proud Serbian but he is also and Croatian origin.
In 1815, many Serbian uprisings did not know for name Serbia.Tesla is not relateed with Croatians in any aspect, he was born in territory of modern Croatia, when he was born Croatia did not exist!!!
Serbian historian on Serbian national television.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zOI...vZK0Jg&index=2
Croats live in Croatia since 1991, deal with it!!!Native village of Nikola Tesla is part of Croatia since 1991 and that was 135 years after Tesla's birth, DEAL WITH IT!!
Serb I2, not R1A-M458
You mean Croats ?
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ats-to-Croatia
Read this, and deal wit it http://www.intermagazin.rs/poreklo-n...koline-bileca/
Really? https://dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedi...grp-filter=R1a
Only in somebody's fantasies some nation can have only one haplogropup, I2a is the strongest haplogroup among Serbs aound 37%, but Serbs are not only I2a.
I2-Din is not Croatian haplogroup, because haplogroups are much much older than first mention of any nation.
There is a more holders of I2a-Din among Serbs than among Croatians.
Documents, please.
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