British Ancestry with higher than average South Asian admixture

[TopLobster]

Hello, I would appreciate some help interpreting my brother's results. I have done a significant amount of genealogy and found that we have predominately English ancestry, followed by Scottish, Irish, and possibly Channel Islander.
He was tested with 23andMe. The 23andMe results are below followed by Eurogenes results.


23andMe "Speculative"

European	100%
Northwestern European	98.1%
British & Irish	61.0%
French & German	13.8%
Scandinavian	1.9%
Finnish	<0.1%
Broadly Northwestern European	21.4%
Ashkenazi Jewish	0.4%
Southern Europe	0.2%
Iberian	<0.1%
Broadly Southern European	0.1%
Broadly European	1.3%

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15

North Sea	36.12
Atlantic	26.61
Baltic	11.57
Eastern Euro	6.95
West_Med	10.05
Red_Sea	0.55
South Asian	2.78
Southeast Asian	-
Siberian	-
Amerindian	0.47
Oceanian	-
Northeast_African	0.37
Sub-Saharan	-

Eurogenes Jtest

SOUTH_BALTIC	14.64
EAST_EURO	9.72
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO	28.88
ATLLANTIC	25.76
WEST_MED	11.51
ASHKENAZI	3.10
EAST_MED	-
WEST_ASIAN	4.52
MIDDLE_EASTERN	-
SOUTH_ASIAN	1.88
EAST_AFRICAN	-
EAST_ASIAN	-
SIBERIAN	-
WEST_AFRICAN	-

Both Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 and Jtest show a higher than average level of South Asian ancestry. Is it possible to figure out if this is indicative of Indian ancestry? I have found through genealogy that one of our 3rd great grandmothers was born in what was Bengal, India to an English/British family.

I am also curious about the Ashkenazi admixture. If the average Ashkenazi admixture for English people is 3.52, then he is below the average, and there must be a statistical error with the analyzer if a large amount of people without any Ashkenazi ancestry have those components categorized as Ashkenazi.

Thanks in advance.

[Maciamo]

Calculators like Eurogenes or Dodecad report very ancient ancestry (over 5000 years old). In contrast 23andMe reports more recent ancestry (they claim 500 years, but it's more like 2000 years). Since you are 100% European at 23andMe, the South Asian can only be very ancient. Low percentages of South Asian are regularly found all over Europe. Have you tried HarappaWorld K16? This calculator tends to me more reliable for (ancient) South Asian ancestry.

[TopLobster]

Thanks for your reply.
Here are the HarappaWorld K16 results.

Population
S-Indian	0.68
Baloch	11.21
Caucasian	5.49
NE-Euro	50.17
SE-Asian	-
Siberian	0.07
NE-Asian	-
Papuan	0.39
American	0.35
Beringian	0.07
Mediterranean	31.26
SW-Asian	-
San	-
E-African	0.31
Pygmy	-
W-African	-

Do you have data on the typical ranges for different admixtures? Are most people very close to the averages or can one person score say 0.05 and another score 2.5 without having recent ancestry from that population.

[LeBrok]

Thanks for your reply.
Here are the HarappaWorld K16 results.

Population
S-Indian	0.68
Baloch	11.21
Caucasian	5.49
NE-Euro	50.17
SE-Asian	-
Siberian	0.07
NE-Asian	-
Papuan	0.39
American	0.35
Beringian	0.07
Mediterranean	31.26
SW-Asian	-
San	-
E-African	0.31
Pygmy	-
W-African	-

Do you have data on the typical ranges for different admixtures? Are most people very close to the averages or can one person score say 0.05 and another score 2.5 without having recent ancestry from that population.

Your numbers are very typical for GB.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...d-contemporary

[TopLobster]

Thanks for the reply Maciamo. Do you think the Ashkenazi Jewish showing up is just European DNA that Ashkenenazi Jews also have, since he has 0 East Med and 0 Middle Eastern? Also, what is the typical range that people can be from the average for ancient foreign admixture? Does the population become more homogeneous with regards to the percentage each generation?

[Sile]

Thanks for the reply Maciamo. Do you think the Ashkenazi Jewish showing up is just European DNA that Ashkenenazi Jews also have, since he has 0 East Med and 0 Middle Eastern? Also, what is the typical range that people can be from the average for ancient foreign admixture? Does the population become more homogeneous with regards to the percentage each generation?

The Jtest from Eurogenes is a very old calculator and has what is called "calculator effect", basically anything under 4% is an error. More modern tests from eurogenes has zero calculator effect ......so your jTest should read zero% ashkenazi
BTW, EUtest also has calculator effect

the Eutest V2 K15 has fixed the calculator test , give that a try

mine below

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 24.78
2 West_Med 18.81
3 East_Med 13.91
4 North_Sea 13.36
5 Baltic 9.59
6 West_Asian 8.42
7 Eastern_Euro 7.71
8 Red_Sea 2.27
9 South_Asian 0.77
10 Sub-Saharan 0.26
11 Oceanian 0.12

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 North_Italian 6.25
2 Tuscan 9.1
3 Spanish_Andalucia 10.11

[spruithean]

Calculators like Eurogenes or Dodecad report very ancient ancestry (over 5000 years old). In contrast 23andMe reports more recent ancestry (they claim 500 years, but it's more like 2000 years). Since you are 100% European at 23andMe, the South Asian can only be very ancient. Low percentages of South Asian are regularly found all over Europe. Have you tried HarappaWorld K16? This calculator tends to me more reliable for (ancient) South Asian ancestry.

I have a similar situation to TopLobster, mostly Continental+Isles ancestry with a surprising level of South Asian on the Eurogenes calculator. So it is merely an ancient link?

[TopLobster]

The Jtest from Eurogenes is a very old calculator and has what is called "calculator effect", basically anything under 4% is an error. More modern tests from eurogenes has zero calculator effect ......so your jTest should read zero% ashkenazi
BTW, EUtest also has calculator effect

the Eutest V2 K15 has fixed the calculator test , give that a try

mine below

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
1 Atlantic 24.78
2 West_Med 18.81
3 East_Med 13.91
4 North_Sea 13.36
5 Baltic 9.59
6 West_Asian 8.42
7 Eastern_Euro 7.71
8 Red_Sea 2.27
9 South_Asian 0.77
10 Sub-Saharan 0.26
11 Oceanian 0.12

Single Population Sharing:

#Population (source)Distance
1 North_Italian 6.25
2 Tuscan 9.1
3 Spanish_Andalucia 10.11

I posted the results of Eurogenes K15 V2 already.

[TopLobster]

I already posted the Eurogenes EUtest K15 V2, so here is EUtest V1 to compare:

SOUTH_BALTIC	14.69
EAST_EURO	9.87
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO	29.16
ATLANTIC	26.25
WEST_MED	12.00
EAST_MED	0.74
WEST_ASIAN	5.16
MIDDLE_EASTERN	-
SOUTH_ASIAN	1.84
EAST_AFRICAN	0.26
EAST_ASIAN	-
SIBERIAN	-
WEST_AFRICAN	-

[Joey D]

My EU V2 K15

East Med	30.31
West Med	17.77
West Asian	17.34
Atlantic	12.77
North Sea	9.65
Baltic	4.01
Eastern Euro	3.49
Red Sea	1.73
Using 1 population approximation:
1 South_Italian @ 5.661479
2 Central_Greek @ 6.268047
3 East_Sicilian @ 7.335024
4 Italian_Abruzzo @ 8.734882
5 Italian_Jewish @ 9.777426
6 Ashkenazi @ 9.933926

[TopLobster]

HarappaWorld Results

Population S-Indian 0.68 Baloch 11.21 Caucasian 5.49 NE-Euro 50.17 SE-Asian - Siberian 0.07 NE-Asian - Papuan 0.39 American 0.35 Beringian 0.07 Mediterranean 31.26 SW-Asian - San - E-African 0.31 Pygmy - W-African -

[LeBrok]

HarappaWorld Results

Population S-Indian 0.68 Baloch 11.21 Caucasian 5.49 NE-Euro 50.17 SE-Asian - Siberian 0.07 NE-Asian - Papuan 0.39 American 0.35 Beringian 0.07 Mediterranean 31.26 SW-Asian - San - E-African 0.31 Pygmy - W-African -

Check my post #4. Somehow it didn't display before and needed approval for... who knows why.

[spruithean]

HarappaWorld Results

Population S-Indian 0.68 Baloch 11.21 Caucasian 5.49 NE-Euro 50.17 SE-Asian - Siberian 0.07 NE-Asian - Papuan 0.39 American 0.35 Beringian 0.07 Mediterranean 31.26 SW-Asian - San - E-African 0.31 Pygmy - W-African -

Our results are fairly similar with that calculator. Though I score 1.38 S-Indian. My known ancestry is mosty Isles and North Sea European. On Eurogenes K15 I score 2.39 South Asian, I would say these values are within range.

[TopLobster]

Check my post #4. Somehow it didn't display before and needed approval for... who knows why.

I see it now.

[TopLobster]

Your numbers are very typical for GB.

Was the Baloch component brought by the Indo-Europeans, who inherited it from the Caucasus Hunter-Gatherers?

[LeBrok]

Was the Baloch component brought by the Indo-Europeans, who inherited it from the Caucasus Hunter-Gatherers?

Baloch already existed in EHG and got increased during Yamnaya period from mixing with Iranian Farmer. In Northern Europe Baloch is mostly from Yamnaya source. In South mostly from Iran/Armenia which accumulated in Anatolia Chalcolithic, then moved into Balkans and South Europe during Chalcolithic/Bronze Age period. It seems that in Paleolithic/Mesolithic periods the source of Baloch was located around modern Iran area, then "radiated" to close by populations.

[Arnaud]

I don't understand why they put France and Germany in the same group.

Do you have an explanation Maciamo?

[I1a3_Young]

I don't understand why they put France and Germany in the same group.

Do you have an explanation Maciamo?

There are multiple factors for that decision. First, DNA testing is illegal in France so getting modern samples is difficult. Second, the Franks and other tribes had a large genetic influence on both places so they are difficult to differentiate.

If you pull the Basque out and call it Basque (high influence in Gascony/Aquitaine), pull out the Italian (Roman influence around Paris), pull out the Scandinavian in Normandy, and account for Bretons in Brittany....compare that to Germany with the Scandinavian or eastern Slavic influence removed....it won't seem so different. You're left with a similar celto-germanic mix in France, Switzerland, Belgium, Germany (more West and South) and south Netherlands.

[TopLobster]

HarappaWorld K16

Population	Me	Brother	England Average
S-Indian	0.50	0.68	0
Baloch	11.90	11.21	10
Caucasian	8.11	5.49	7
NE-Euro	47.36	50.17	50
SE-Asian	-	-	0
Siberian	-	0.07	0
NE-Asian	-	-	0
Papuan	0.28	0.39	0
American	-	0.35	0
Beringian	1.45	0.07	0
Mediterranean	30.37	31.26	32
SW-Asian	-	-	0
San	-	-	0
E-African	-	0.31	0
Pygmy	-	-	0
W-African	-	-	0

[TopLobster]

HarappaWorld K16 for me

Population
S-Indian	0.50
Baloch	11.90
Caucasian	8.11
NE-Euro	47.36
SE-Asian	-
Siberian	-
NE-Asian	-
Papuan	0.28
American	-
Beringian	1.45
Mediterranean	30.37
SW-Asian	-
San	-
E-African	-
Pygmy	-
W-African	-

[TopLobster]

Eurogenes K15

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	North_Sea	34.24
2	Atlantic	26.45
3	Eastern_Euro	11.45
4	West_Med	9.38
5	Baltic	9.08
6	West_Asian	4.94
7	South_Asian	2.01
8	East_Med	1.62
9	Oceanian	0.36
10	Siberian	0.29
11	Northeast_African	0.18

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#		Primary Population (source)			Secondary Population (source)			Distance
1		91.8%	Southwest_English	+	8.2%	Chuvash	@	2.85
2		93%	Southwest_English	+	7%	Mari	@	3
3		94.3%	Southwest_English	+	5.7%	MA-1	@	3.06
4		77.2%	Orcadian	+	22.8%	Serbian	@	3.1
5		94.2%	Southwest_English	+	5.8%	Kalash	@	3.11
6		94.4%	Southwest_English	+	5.6%	Burusho	@	3.14
7		93.5%	Southwest_English	+	6.5%	Afghan_Pashtun	@	3.16
8		90.2%	Southwest_English	+	9.8%	Tatar	@	3.16
9		79.5%	Orcadian	+	20.5%	Moldavian	@	3.19
10		93.9%	Southeast_English	+	6.1%	Kalash	@	3.2
11		92.9%	Danish	+	7.1%	Sardinian	@	3.21
12		91.9%	Southeast_English	+	8.1%	Chuvash	@	3.21
13		94.1%	Southeast_English	+	5.9%	Burusho	@	3.22
14		92.9%	Southwest_English	+	7.1%	Tadjik	@	3.23
15		56.9%	Danish	+	43.1%	South_Dutch	@	3.25
16		87.6%	Southwest_English	+	12.4%	East_Finnish	@	3.25
17		90.9%	Southwest_English	+	9.1%	Erzya	@	3.26
18		94.5%	Southwest_English	+	5.5%	Pathan	@	3.28
19		54.2%	South_Dutch	+	45.8%	Orcadian	@	3.29
20		89.8%	Southwest_English	+	10.2%	Kargopol_Russian	@	3.29

Are these predictions due to higher than average South Asian admixture?