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Thread: M-183 in British isles

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    M-183 in British isles

    Im projected as L-117 on ftdna,but on the E-M35 project they have me matched to M-81 / M-183. Are there any new theories how this subclade came to the UK & when? My earliest ancester is an Elliot in newhampshire 1793 so british isles anc. Is assumed.

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    The Elliot name has lead me to an assumed Scottish ancestry but could more likely be English as i have no links yet to any of the big border Elliot lines.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-U152-Z56-BY3957
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    15/32 British, 5/32 German, 9/64 Irish, 1/8 Scots Gaelic, 5/64 French, 1/32 Welsh
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Elliott View Post
    The Elliot name has lead me to an assumed Scottish ancestry but could more likely be English as i have no links yet to any of the big border Elliot lines.
    Hello there Jesse, welcome to Eupedia. Ydna E-M81 is pretty rare in the Isles but there is a pocket in the Northern coast of Wales.
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...-DNA.shtml#M81

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Thanks Twilight. V-13 is more common. M-81/ M-183, not as much. There is a smattering among some of the border reiver surnames,( Nixon, Scott,Douglas,to name a few). Clearly an adoption id assume. But one theory ive heard is that there was a Roman fort near Carllisle that was maned by North African troops( Berbers or Carthagian maybe?) Which would place my possible ancester in the borders BEFORE Elliots came there & before the custom of taking surnames. Hmmmm.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    One of my Tejano (Texans of Mexican descent) friends just tested as E-M183 which fits with his Spanish paternal line. I would think this y-DNA haplogroup would be rather rare in the British Isles, but nothing surprises me about origins anymore.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    I am E-M183. My ancestor was William Laing born in Hawick Scotland in 1653. He changed his name to Lyne/Line in the colonies (NY) to hide his identity as we was an infamous Scottish Covenanter for Calvinism/Presbyterianism. I have found our Laing relatives have E-M183 as well as other Scottish clans like Elliot, Cockburn, Scott, Douglas, Menzies, Colquhoun, Gordon, Pringle, Cole, etc that all have some element of E-M183 linked surnames in Scotland and the Eglish Borders. E-M183 soldiers from Numidia/Mauretania were stationed at Carlisle (Burgh-by-Sands Aballava Maure auxiliaries)and High Rochester (Varduli auxiliaries who were from Spain and then stationed in Mauretania/Numidia and added troops before coming to Brittainia) and Corbridge along Hadrian's Wall. When Rome pulled out in the late 390s/400s these E-M183 Roman troops stayed ( there were Roman eteran colonial at Carlisle and Corbridge as well) and were already or became intermarried with the Cumbric and Beracian/Northumbrian Brittonic and Angle tribes. They became part of the tribes of the Old North of Coel Hen (Coelicius) who was British High King out of Eboricum (York) and controlled Northumbria, Cumbria, Rheged, Bernicia, Diera, Gododdin, Lothian and Alt Clud/Dumnonii. They were all interrelated. The E-M183 Numidians/Maure/Amazigh (modernly called Berbers) were were great Roman trained fighters and horsemen (back to Roman Wars against Carthage and in Spain/Hispana) so they became a military asset that got passed down the generations. This is why the Borders were a thorn to both Scottish and English kings in North Britain right through the 1500/1600s. Their ancestors made them very effective fighters and they learned to survive. Many of the crest badges and coats of arms of the Border reflect their Roman/Maure/Numidian and British Celtic roots. There is also a great number of E-V13 Y DNA in these regions too showing the Roman Dacian/Thracoan/Dalmatians who were stationed at Hadrians and the Antoine wall. I am writing a book so I have alot of study on this topic.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-M84

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    i know a roman auxiliary is the most romantic...
    but consider a route from france also as option
    E-m81 exist in france...
    some areas above 5% auvergne, ille de france
    and more than 4% in lille ....
    so could be norman invaders, or french traders also...
    Last edited by kingjohn; 09-02-20 at 18:18.

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