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Thread: (NEW) GenePlaza K12 Ancient Calculator Results

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I wanted to see what kind of results I would get for my Ancestry DNA raw data, but this app was no longer available on the page.

    Which is a shame too, because this was the calculator he made, that made the most sense IMO.
    Darn sorry about that, no wonder why somebody downvoted. Itís a shame that AncestryDNA doesnít download raw data anymore, this link must be somewhat outdated.

    No matter, you can still download your Raw Data through 23andme and a LivingDNA, although Iím sure there are other DNA companies where you can transfer raw data though. The alternative is that you can get a test tube through Geneplaza.
    Good luck :)
    https://www.geneplaza.com/

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    I don't see a downvote.
    ‚Äč

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I don't see a downvote.
    My bad, I seriously need to use google translate. *laughing at myself* I think I might of self translated it wrong. I think Iíve been away for a bit too long. :P

    Italian: Visualizzazione risultati 1 fino 4 di 4
    displaying results 1 to 4 of 4

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    Hello,

    these are my results. Mostly Ancient farmers:


      • ANCIENT FARMERS
        74.1%
        • WEST EUROPEAN FARMERS (4000-5000 years)
          22.3%


        • LEVANT (4000-8000 years)
          4.1%


        • NEOLITHIC-CHALCOLITHIC IRAN-CHG (5000-12000 years)
          7.5%


        • EAST EUROPEAN FARMERS (5000-8000 years)
          40.3%

    • STEPPE CULTURES
      21.1%
    • WESTERN EUROPEAN & SCANDINAVIAN HUNTER GATHERERS (4000-5000 years)
      4.6%
    • AFRICAN
      0.2%

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I've combined Twilight's thread into the existing thread on this topic. Again, it is a pity that this calculator is no longer available.

    These were my results:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post


    My results are in:

    Ancient Farmers: 77.0%
    • Western European Farmers: 31.1%
    • Levant: 2.4%
    • Neolithic-Chalcolithic Iran-CHG: 6.3%
    • Eastern European Farmers: 37.1%


    Steppe Cultures: 16.8%
    • Karasuk-E Scythian 8.7%
    • Andronovo-Srubanaya: 8.1%


    Western European & Scandinavian Hunter Gatherers: 6.2%

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I've combined Twilight's thread into the existing thread on this topic. Again, it is a pity that this calculator is no longer available.

    These were my results:
    Thank you Jovialis, it appears that the Neolithic Anatolian results are way higher in Italy than in NW Europe. The results seem promising.
    Last edited by Twilight; 04-03-19 at 21:48.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    I guess that in the case of Funnelbeaker (west) there where two major neolithic influences:

    a. an inland route, ''East European Farmer" from the Balkan:

    https://www.thoughtco.com/funnel-beaker-culture-170938
    and
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5325568/

    b. and a sea route, "West European Farmer" from the Mediterraenen area:
    http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2012/04/...ic-sweden.html

    In my case is the ratio obviously 1:1,5 in advantage of the East European Farmers.
    Indeed.



    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...urasia-New-Map

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    In light of the new map, here are my results. I get 0 for the minority ancestry.

    For the farmer and steppe portions, see below. The only thing I don't understand is why I got higher numbers for certain steppe cultures than others:




    • ANCIENT FARMERS
      74.3%

      • WEST EUROPEAN FARMERS (4000-5000 years)
        39.2%
      • LEVANT (4000-8000 years)
        3.3%
      • NEOLITHIC-CHALCOLITHIC IRAN-CHG (5000-12000 years)
        3.4%
      • EAST EUROPEAN FARMERS (5000-8000 years)
        28.4%









    ‚Äč



    • STEPPE CULTURES
      25.7%

      • KARASUK-E SCYTHIAN (2000-3000 years)
        12.6%




      • ANDRONOVO-SRUBNAYA (3000-4000 years)
        5.3%




      • YAMNAYA-AFANASIEVO-POLTAVKA (4000-5000 years) 8.5%


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    In light of the new map, here are my results. I get 0 for the minority ancestry.
    For the farmer and steppe portions, see below. The only thing I don't understand is why I got higher numbers for certain steppe cultures than others:
    • ANCIENT FARMERS
      74.3%
      • WEST EUROPEAN FARMERS (4000-5000 years)
        39.2%
      • LEVANT (4000-8000 years)
        3.3%
      • NEOLITHIC-CHALCOLITHIC IRAN-CHG (5000-12000 years)
        3.4%
      • EAST EUROPEAN FARMERS (5000-8000 years)
        28.4%


    ‚Äč

    • STEPPE CULTURES
      25.7%
      • KARASUK-E SCYTHIAN (2000-3000 years)
        12.6%

      • ANDRONOVO-SRUBNAYA (3000-4000 years)
        5.3%

      • YAMNAYA-AFANASIEVO-POLTAVKA (4000-5000 years) 8.5%
    No idea. The same happens with my mother,.with the difference her Karasuk/Scythian is low.

    It's worth reading the page 5 of this thread, which shows the references for farmers.
    Curiously, LBK itself would have had actually little genetic impact on Europe.

    Despite the explanations about Western Farmers cluster "eating" some WHG in the calculator, your results seem to be in line with Haak et al, with no WHG and some extra Yamnaya compared to Bergamo, while Bergamo has extra WHG compared to Tuscans.


    Anyway, it's hard to believe Tuscans have no WHG at all.

    If it's still on GedMatch, could you post your Near East Neolithic K13 results? It's under GedrosiaDNA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Me / Father / Mother

    Ancient Farmers: 72.5 / 70.9 / 68.8
    - West European Farmers: 29.0 / 26.5 / 33.1
    - Levant: 3.0 / 4.8 / 3.1
    - Neolithic-Calcolithic Iran-CHG: 7.0 / 5.8 / 6.5
    - East European Farmers: 33.5 / 33.8 / 26.1

    Steppe Cultures: 23.4 / 25.2 / 25.7
    - Karasuk-E Scythian: 6.8 / 8.3 / 4.8
    - Andronovo-Srubnaya: 7.8 / 5.9 / 10.8
    - Yamnaya-Afanasievo-Poltavka: 8.7 / 11.0 / 10.1
    Western European & Scandinavian Hunter Gatherers: 3.3 / 3.8 / 5.1

    Eastern Non Africans: 0.6 / 0.0 / 0.0

    African: 0.1 / 0.0 / 0.4
    - East African: 0.1 / 0.0 / 0.4
    - West African: 0.0 / 0.0 / 0.0

    Southeast Eurasian: 0.0 / 0.0 / 0.0
    Eastern Non Africans? What is it?

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    No idea. The same happens with my mother,.with the difference her Karasuk/Scythian is low.

    It's worth reading the page 5 of this thread, which shows the references for farmers.
    Curiously, LBK itself would have had actually little genetic impact on Europe.

    Despite the explanations about Western Farmers cluster "eating" some WHG in the calculator, your results seem to be in line with Haak et al, with no WHG and some extra Yamnaya compared to Bergamo, while Bergamo has extra WHG compared to Tuscans.


    Anyway, it's hard to believe Tuscans have no WHG at all.

    If it's still on GedMatch, could you post your Near East Neolithic K13 results? It's under GedrosiaDNA.


    Eastern Non Africans? What is it?
    Don't know.

    It's not available anymore.

    I'm surprised you have more Iran farmer than I do. Levant farmer is about the same. The WHG is different, but they're small percentages. I think the biggest difference is that I have more Cardial than you do. I don't think Eastern farmer is necessarily just LBK. I thought it was more the Hungarian Neolithic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Don't know.
    It's not available anymore.
    I'm surprised you have more Iran farmer than I do. Levant farmer is about the same. The WHG is different, but they're small percentages. I think the biggest difference is that I have more Cardial than you do. I don't think Eastern farmer is necessarily just LBK. I thought it was more the Hungarian Neolithic.
    Yep. I consistently get some extra Iran farmer related ancestry in calculators, compared to my parents and other Venetians, so I assume it must be real. And my father, couriously, consistently gets traces of South Central Asian in some of them.

    I just checked GedrosiaDNA K13 is not available anymore. Anyway, I read somewhere that Gedrosia would be better for Western Asians. Perhaps MDLP is better for Europeans, as its K16 (I guess you'd like the Oracle).

    ED: correction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Yep. I consistently get some extra Iran farmer related ancestry in calculators, compared to my parents and other Venetians, so I assume it must be real. And my father, couriously, consistently gets traces of South Central Asian in some of them.

    I just checked GedrosiaDNA K13 is not available anymore. Anyway, I read somewhere that Gedrosia would be better for Western Asians. Perhaps MDLP is better for Europeans, as its K16 (I guess you'd like the Oracle).
    Actually, all of you got more Iran Neo than I do, and your Dad has more Levant Neo. Genetics always surprises.

    Fwiw, I think any "extra" WHG (from what is in the farmers), seems to have a big effect on PCAs, perhaps because it is so divergent.

    As to the "steppe", my highest is "Scythian", and I get Scythian in my true ancesty, so at least that is consistent.

    I think I tried the MDLP, and it was better.
    Last edited by Angela; 16-04-19 at 15:34.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Actually, all of you got more Iran Neo than I do, and your Dad has more Levant Neo. Genetics always surprises.

    Fwiw, I think any "extra" WHG (from what is in the farmers), seems to have a big effect on PCAs, perhaps because it is so divergent.

    As to the "steppe", my highest is "Scythian", and I get Scythian in my true ancesty, so at least that is consistent.

    I think I tried the MDLP, and it was better.
    Indeed. I guess Venetians must have a bit more compared to Tuscans then, and I have more than Venetians in general.

    As for PCAs, I agree. Plus, they must be well done. I noticed that one based on K15, for example, may have a slight distortion in its coordinates, as per Oracle itself. Or perhaps one more dimesion would correct it?

    Some Oracles in MDLP seem to work pretty well.

    Btw, Angela, please update the last quote. I mixed up names and put a completely wrong info in there. Thanks in advance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Indeed. I guess Venetians must have a bit more compared to Tuscans then, and I have more than Venetians in general.

    As for PCAs, I agree. Plus, they must be well done. I noticed that one based on K15, for example, may have a slight distortion in its coordinates, as per Oracle itself. Or perhaps one more dimesion would correct it?

    Some Oracles in MDLP seem to work pretty well.

    Btw, Angela, please update the last quote. I mixed up names and put a completely wrong info in there. Thanks in advance.
    Sorry, Regio, but I don't know what you mean. I'm just having my coffee, so please excuse the muddled thinking. :)

    Also, I'm only half Tuscan. Actually, 1/4 Tuscan/1/4 Eastern Ligurian. I think 100% Tuscans probably have Iran Neo even higher than your family, although I haven't seen the results of 100% Tuscans on this calculator.

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    :)
    You quoted a post of mine, and while you're typing your answer, I changed/corrected my post. So your answer quoted the old text, with a wrong info. That's what I meant when I asked you to update it. :)

    Yeah, I forgot your father was in fact from Emilia. Even if from a place very close to Tuscany, I guess Tuscans from that area are more similar to W. Emilians than W. Emilians from Tuscans in general. Is that correct?

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    :)
    You quoted a post of mine, and while you're typing your answer, I changed/corrected my post. So your answer quoted the old text, with a wrong info. That's what I meant when I asked you to update it. :)

    Yeah, I forgot your father was in fact from Emilia. Even if from a place very close to Tuscany, I guess Tuscans from that area are more similar to W. Emilians than W. Emilians from Tuscans in general. Is that correct?
    My father died before I got into this whole topic, and my father's brothers and sisters as well (he was much older than my mother), so the only people I could test are my older relatives in Italy, but they won't do it, even after I've offered to pay and other bribes as well. :)

    All I can go on are my own results. On the old Dienekes calculators, my scores on the "components" were consistently in between the ones for Bergamo and the ones for Tuscans, with perhaps a slight "lean" on some of them toward Tuscans.

    I'm not surprised that there would be a difference between West Emilians and Tuscans: the Appennini are right smack between the two areas. Yes, there are passes, passes which have been used since time immemorial for trade and later as a pilgrim route (the Via Francigena). However, I doubt there was mass mingling. It's the same way the Alps functioned in northern Italy, and why as far back as Novembre et al there's a slight break in the European cline there, although not as large as the one south of Rome.

    In addition, the area from which my father's family came had no roads until almost 1920. It was mule tracks before that. That isolation, and the fact he was teaching in Parma is why Cavalli-Sforza did all his work there, especially his book on Consanguinity.

    https://press.princeton.edu/titles/7800.html

    I can't believe they're charging that. It's available elsewhere for much less. I'm not so sure any longer that the differences from the plain are just the result of drift. I have a feeling that the people on the plain may have changed somewhat due to later admixture, although there is drift from village to village. Some villages are much more "fair" in coloring than others, for example.


    That's the reason I started a thread on those people. They've all but disappeared. I wanted to memorialize them, even if my sense of identity is with my mother's people, among whom I was raised. There's some nonsense in the middle, but in the beginning and the end there are good pictures of them, members of my family included.
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...nnino+Parmense

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    My father died before I got into this whole topic, and my father's brothers and sisters as well (he was much older than my mother), so the only people I could test are my older relatives in Italy, but they won't do it, even after I've offered to pay and other bribes as well. :)

    All I can go on are my own results. On the old Dienekes calculators, my scores on the "components" were consistently in between the ones for Bergamo and the ones for Tuscans, with perhaps a slight "lean" on some of them toward Tuscans.

    I'm not surprised that there would be a difference between West Emilians and Tuscans: the Appennini are right smack between the two areas. Yes, there are passes, passes which have been used since time immemorial for trade and later as a pilgrim route (the Via Francigena). However, I doubt there was mass mingling. It's the same way the Alps functioned in northern Italy, and why as far back as Novembre et al there's a slight break in the European cline there, although not as large as the one south of Rome.

    In addition, the area from which my father's family came had no roads until almost 1920. It was mule tracks before that. That isolation, and the fact he was teaching in Parma is why Cavalli-Sforza did all his work there, especially his book on Consanguinity.

    https://press.princeton.edu/titles/7800.html

    I can't believe they're charging that. It's available elsewhere for much less. I'm not so sure any longer that the differences from the plain are just the result of drift. I have a feeling that the people on the plain may have changed somewhat due to later admixture, although there is drift from village to village. Some villages are much more "fair" in coloring than others, for example.


    That's the reason I started a thread on those people. They've all but disappeared. I wanted to memorialize them, even if my sense of identity is with my mother's people, among whom I was raised. There's some nonsense in the middle, but in the beginning and the end there are good pictures of them, members of my family included.
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...nnino+Parmense
    The only decent score I get at MDLP is for the run where he includes the academic "Piedmont" sample, which is actually the Ligurian Alps sample (for goodness sakes' all the towns have Ligure in the name, but these academics can't seem to figure it out), and probably a good reference for the quattro province area, the area between Pavia, Genova, Alessandria (Piemonte) and Emilia. I get a 4.73. Then comes Tuscany and North Italy.

    Here are Emilia and Toscana on PCAs. I would trust the first more than the second as it's an academic sample and they actually know for sure the ancestry of the samples. On the second PCA, based on K15 I don't know the ancestry of those people. I wish I knew the person who submitted the Lunigiana sample. That should be close to my mother's placement if he's 100% from there. Problem is I don't know if the Emilia samples plot where my father would have plotted. That's probably Bologna? He might be slightly different. I can't believe they won't test. Love them all to bits, but it's annoying. If my father had lived longer I wouldn't he bothering them.






    I found this one in my files. Going by Dodecad, I'd be on a line somewhere between Bergamo and Tuscan, but closer to Tuscan. However, this is not based on Dodecad, so I don't know. Maybe between North Italian and Tuscan. So maybe my Dad and his family would be in that "North Italian" group? Where specifically did that sample come from? Is it Bologna? If it is, I don't think that would necessarily be a great approximation for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    My father died before I got into this whole topic, and my father's brothers and sisters as well (he was much older than my mother), so the only people I could test are my older relatives in Italy, but they won't do it, even after I've offered to pay and other bribes as well. :)

    All I can go on are my own results. On the old Dienekes calculators, my scores on the "components" were consistently in between the ones for Bergamo and the ones for Tuscans, with perhaps a slight "lean" on some of them toward Tuscans.

    I'm not surprised that there would be a difference between West Emilians and Tuscans: the Appennini are right smack between the two areas. Yes, there are passes, passes which have been used since time immemorial for trade and later as a pilgrim route (the Via Francigena). However, I doubt there was mass mingling. It's the same way the Alps functioned in northern Italy, and why as far back as Novembre et al there's a slight break in the European cline there, although not as large as the one south of Rome.

    In addition, the area from which my father's family came had no roads until almost 1920. It was mule tracks before that. That isolation, and the fact he was teaching in Parma is why Cavalli-Sforza did all his work there, especially his book on Consanguinity.

    https://press.princeton.edu/titles/7800.html

    I can't believe they're charging that. It's available elsewhere for much less. I'm not so sure any longer that the differences from the plain are just the result of drift. I have a feeling that the people on the plain may have changed somewhat due to later admixture, although there is drift from village to village. Some villages are much more "fair" in coloring than others, for example.


    That's the reason I started a thread on those people. They've all but disappeared. I wanted to memorialize them, even if my sense of identity is with my mother's people, among whom I was raised. There's some nonsense in the middle, but in the beginning and the end there are good pictures of them, members of my family included.
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...nnino+Parmense
    It's a pity they didn't agree to test. Perhaps if you try again, when you're there...
    I had some difficulty to convince maternal uncles to test, but at the end I got it. Unfortunately, the kit stopped at customhouse. Now I'm not sure it'll take its way.

    Thanks for the links.
    I guess I found your father's place. Almost 1000 meters high, and surrounded by mountains. Indeed, this condition may have contributed for some genetic drift, as evidenced also by peculiar physical traits. It's exactly the opposite to my family, who came from several places in North Italy, some of them in plains. The result is that we have all "Europe" in family, in terms of phenotype. lol Well, not that much, but the variation is really big.

    People are having few children, moving to big cities, the world is becoming more "globalized" etc. As I was saying in another thread, many things we care about will just pass, even before us. To balance it a bit, modernity offers ways to help on the job of keeping "reminiscences". It's what will remain. :) So, it's a good thing you do trying to keep memories. Cheers for that!

    As for the PCAs, wow! I didn't know I was in one. :) Very interesting! I really don't know where your father would plot, but I guess it wouldn't be far from the Lunigiana sample, for obvious reasons.
    Apparently MDLP K16 slightly changed. Especially its Oracle. Later I can try to post the new ones on the appropriated thread.

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