(NEW) GenePlaza K12 Ancient Calculator Results

[Tomenable]

I get RISE555 as my Copper Age / Early Bronze Age Steppe ancestor.

This sample is not described as Yamnaya, but just Early Bronze Age:

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/copperbronzeagedna.shtml

In that later period of time, I get Mezhovskaya instead of Karasuk.

 

[LeBrok]

LeBrok,

I partially agree with you, but that is not my calculator. With K36 nMonte, I got the following results (I divided samples into eras, and calculated models of ancestry for each era):

YOU was in general form to all.

 

[Twilight]

Hmmm, what will you get when you pull Neolithic Iran/CHG genes from Yamnaya-Afansievo? What's left is pure EHG genes, not the BA Steppe Culture. You can't measure Yamnaya without Iran/CHG in it!
When you measure farmer genes on one side, you should measure h-gs on the other. Not the mixed cultures like Steppe BA or even Iron Age like in case of Scythians.
Likewise when you measure Steppe Cultures, you should compare them to their contemporaries. Like BA Hungary or Balkans or BA Levant.

I just ran GedrisiaDNA K13 for the RISE548 Temrta IV and it seems like he had 90% EHG. Just curious, how old do you think RISE548 is? . F999968

gedrosia K13 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	EHG	91.64
2	CHG_EEF	6.82
3	IRAN_NEOLITHIC	1.03

Finished reading population data. 145 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Steppe_EMBA @ 8.332838
2 EHG @ 10.848113
3 Steppe_Eneolithic @ 15.332281
4 MA1 @ 35.752441
5 Steppe_MLBA @ 54.005684
6 Steppe_IA @ 57.893478
7 Europe_LNBA @ 68.595451
8 Mansi @ 81.844429
9 Russian @ 84.221184
10 Finnish @ 84.834053
11 Tajik @ 85.156075
12 Estonian @ 85.601242
13 Norwegian @ 86.192795
14 English @ 86.641441
15 Icelandic @ 86.720924
16 Ukrainian @ 86.735909
17 Lezgin @ 86.938011
18 Lithuanian @ 87.061974
19 Chechen @ 87.216942
20 Scottish @ 87.639229

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Steppe_EMBA +50% Steppe_EMBA @ 8.332838


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% EHG +25% EHG +25% Steppe_MLBA @ 6.024658


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 EHG + EHG + EHG + Steppe_MLBA @ 6.024658
2 EHG + EHG + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_MLBA @ 6.929148
3 Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 7.842470
4 EHG + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_MLBA @ 7.931480
5 EHG + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 8.007501
6 Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA @ 8.332838
7 EHG + EHG + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 8.360223
8 EHG + EHG + EHG + MA1 @ 8.508878
9 EHG + EHG + MA1 + Steppe_EMBA @ 8.638973
10 EHG + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA @ 8.761701
11 EHG + EHG + EHG + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 8.878288
12 EHG + MA1 + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA @ 8.945330
13 Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_MLBA @ 8.997570
14 EHG + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_Eneolithic + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 9.184469
15 EHG + EHG + Steppe_Eneolithic + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 9.242440
16 Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_Eneolithic + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 9.297512
17 EHG + EHG + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA @ 9.339354
18 MA1 + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA @ 9.410752
19 EHG + EHG + EHG + Steppe_EMBA @ 10.044287
20 EHG + EHG + EHG + Steppe_IA @ 10.053915

Done.

 

[LeBrok]

I just ran GedrisiaDNA K13 for the RISE548 Temrta IV and it seems like he had 90% EHG. Just curious, how old do you think RISE548 is? . F999968

gedrosia K13 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

#	Population	Percent
1	EHG	91.64
2	CHG_EEF	6.82
3	IRAN_NEOLITHIC	1.03

Finished reading population data. 145 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Steppe_EMBA @ 8.332838
2 EHG @ 10.848113
3 Steppe_Eneolithic @ 15.332281
4 MA1 @ 35.752441
5 Steppe_MLBA @ 54.005684
6 Steppe_IA @ 57.893478
7 Europe_LNBA @ 68.595451
8 Mansi @ 81.844429
9 Russian @ 84.221184
10 Finnish @ 84.834053
11 Tajik @ 85.156075
12 Estonian @ 85.601242
13 Norwegian @ 86.192795
14 English @ 86.641441
15 Icelandic @ 86.720924
16 Ukrainian @ 86.735909
17 Lezgin @ 86.938011
18 Lithuanian @ 87.061974
19 Chechen @ 87.216942
20 Scottish @ 87.639229

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Steppe_EMBA +50% Steppe_EMBA @ 8.332838


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% EHG +25% EHG +25% Steppe_MLBA @ 6.024658


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 EHG + EHG + EHG + Steppe_MLBA @ 6.024658
2 EHG + EHG + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_MLBA @ 6.929148
3 Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 7.842470
4 EHG + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_MLBA @ 7.931480
5 EHG + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 8.007501
6 Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA @ 8.332838
7 EHG + EHG + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 8.360223
8 EHG + EHG + EHG + MA1 @ 8.508878
9 EHG + EHG + MA1 + Steppe_EMBA @ 8.638973
10 EHG + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA @ 8.761701
11 EHG + EHG + EHG + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 8.878288
12 EHG + MA1 + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA @ 8.945330
13 Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_MLBA @ 8.997570
14 EHG + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_Eneolithic + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 9.184469
15 EHG + EHG + Steppe_Eneolithic + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 9.242440
16 Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_Eneolithic + Steppe_Eneolithic @ 9.297512
17 EHG + EHG + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA @ 9.339354
18 MA1 + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA + Steppe_EMBA @ 9.410752
19 EHG + EHG + EHG + Steppe_EMBA @ 10.044287
20 EHG + EHG + EHG + Steppe_IA @ 10.053915

Done.

He is and he looks like typical Yamnayan, with most EHG of all the samples I have.

http://arshba.ru/ancient-western-eurasian-dna-of-the-copper-and-bronze-ages-t1147.html

 

[Angela]

Is this calculator using such an outlier? That wouldn't make sense.

 

[Twilight]

Is this calculator using such an outlier? That wouldn't make sense.

Not quite sure I've been using this link below to access ancient DNA, however the website hasn't been updated for 2 years and I acknowledge that there are more ancient DNA on Gedmatch and but I found only found 1 sample on Y-str that matched Eupedia's Yamna article. There are so many adventure legend out there that I wouldn't quite put outlier out of the question. RISE548 was found in the Don & Kuban region.

However I have to admit, it was entertaining to suddenly see that 90% EHG on a pie scale looks like Pac-Man instead of the roughly 40-50% CHG I was originally expecting. That was pretty cool

http://www.y-str.org/p/ancient-dna.html


http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/yamna_culture.shtml

 

[New Englander]

View attachment 9105

I like this one, seems to give a good reference group. Only odd thing is I get 0% Western European Hunter.

ANCIENT FARMERS 69.0%
WEST EUROPEAN FARMERS (4000-5000 years) 26.8%
LEVANT (4000-8000 years) 4.5%
NEOLITHIC-CHALCOLITHIC IRAN-CHG (5000-12000 years) 8.7%
EAST EUROPEAN FARMERS (5000-8000 years) 29.0%

STEPPE CULTURES 28.5%
KARASUK-E SCYTHIAN (2000-3000 years) 9.9%
ANDRONOVO-SRUBNAYA (3000-4000 years) 10.3%
YAMNAYA-AFANASIEVO-POLTAVKA (4000-5000 years) 8.3%

AFRICAN 2.5%
EAST AFRICAN (modern) 0.8%
WEST AFRICAN (modern) 1.7%

 

[kingjohn]

View attachment 9105

I like this one, seems to give a good reference group. Only odd thing is I get 0% Western European Hunter.


very strange i score 12% whg in mdlp k11 and 0% here
and i am sure you even more whg in mdlp k11 as you have a Scottish roots
so the 0% is weird
maybe it is hiding in your west european farmers
as they are based on chl Iberian and those did have whg admixture .
other than that the calculator looks good
kind regards
Adam

 

[Angela]

View attachment 9105

I like this one, seems to give a good reference group. Only odd thing is I get 0% Western European Hunter.


very strange i score 12% whg in mdlp k11 and 0% here
and i am sure you even more whg in mdlp k11 as you have a Scottish roots
so the 0% is weird
maybe it is hiding in your west european farmers
as they are based on chl Iberian and those did have whg admixture .
other than that the calculator looks good
kind regards
Adam

At the most, the WHG is 20%-30% of the West European farmer, and probably quite a bit less for most of the East European farmers. (I wouldn't have labeled them that, btw, as I think it's misleading. It looks like LBK plus the Balkans plus Anatolia.) *

The more southeastern your ancestry, the less of this you're going to get, because there was no reservoir of WHG here. That only existed in the far northeast from what I can tell, or perhaps a bit of the northern strip, which later diffused into other areas, but probably never into the more populated areas of the south.

Also, I think people have been led astray by amateur calculators created by people with an agenda to push. The academics never saw a lot of WHG in modern Europeans other than what had been absorbed by the farmers.

See: Haak et al

The more you people talk about this the more intrigued I'm getting, so maybe for the first time in a long time I'll try a calculator. At least this has the benefit of not being created by people I distrust, and it's actually based on a good sample of ancient genomes.

 

[Angela]

At the most, the WHG is 20%-30% of the West European farmer, and probably quite a bit less for most of the East European farmers. (I wouldn't have labeled them that, btw, as I think it's misleading. It looks like LBK plus the Balkans plus Anatolia.) *

The more southeastern your ancestry, the less of this you're going to get, because there was no reservoir of WHG here. That only existed in the far northeast from what I can tell, or perhaps a bit of the northern strip, which later diffused into other areas, but probably never into the more populated areas of the south.

Also, I think people have been led astray by amateur calculators created by people with an agenda to push. The academics never saw a lot of WHG in modern Europeans other than what had been absorbed by the farmers.

See: Haak et al

The more you people talk about this the more intrigued I'm getting, so maybe for the first time in a long time I'll try a calculator. At least this has the benefit of not being created by people I distrust, and it's actually based on a good sample of ancient genomes.

I think we have to do some research on this. Are the European farmer samples in this calculator before or after the "HG resurgence"?If it's before, they had almost no WHG.

 

[Angela]

Well, that's nice, I just proved my two prior posts with my own results. Click to enlarge.

View attachment 9123



This is a map of the geographical location of the ancient samples.

View attachment 9124

 

[kingjohn]

i can't see the results
what has been written to me is
this
[h=2]vBulletin Message[/h] Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link,

can you please copy paste them
kind regards
adam


p.s
the west farmers are based on neolithic Portuguese and chl Iberian references from what i remember .

 

[Angela]

Darn! I saved it to my computer and then uploaded. I even clicked approve attachment, so I don't know why it doesn't work.

Anyway...

Ancient farmers: 74.3
Steppe cultures: 25.7

African 0
Eastern Non-Africans 0
Southeast Eurasian 0
Western European & Scandinavian Hunter-Gatherers 0

• ANCIENT FARMERS[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
  74.3%​
• STEPPE CULTURES[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
  25.7%​
• AFRICAN[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
  0.0%​
• EASTERN NON AFRICANS (modern)[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
  0.0%​
• SOUTHEAST EURASIAN[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
  0.0%​
• WESTERN EUROPEAN & SCANDINAVIAN HUNTER GATHERERS (4000-5000 years)[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
  0.0%​

 

[Angela]

I think this is now my favorite calculator. Who did it, btw?

For the farmer and steppe portions, see below. The only thing I don't understand is why I got higher numbers for certain steppe cultures than others:

• ANCIENT FARMERS
  74.3%​
  • WEST EUROPEAN FARMERS (4000-5000 years)
    39.2%​
  • LEVANT (4000-8000 years)
    3.3%​
  • NEOLITHIC-CHALCOLITHIC IRAN-CHG (5000-12000 years)
    3.4%​
  • EAST EUROPEAN FARMERS (5000-8000 years)
    28.4%​

​

​

• STEPPE CULTURES
  25.7%​
  • KARASUK-E SCYTHIAN (2000-3000 years)
    12.6%​
  • ANDRONOVO-SRUBNAYA (3000-4000 years)
    5.3%​
  • YAMNAYA-AFANASIEVO-POLTAVKA (4000-5000 years)

 

[davef]

Angela, you and NewEnglander are very very similar

 

[Angela]

He's British, Italian, and Jewish, yes? I think he said half British?

The similarity is in the big blocks, where it's a few point difference either way, and then a 2.5% SSA score for him versus 0 for me. There's a lot more difference when you get to the sub-categories, I'm 12 points higher in Western European Farmers, which makes sense given my location, and I have less than half the Neolithic Iran, Armenian type ancestry.

From what I've seen at anthrogenica, most people get from 3-5% Levant, so I'm on the low end, and a lot of people also get a few percent Iran Neolithic. It would be interesting to know the percentages by area. For ease of reference:
New Englander/Me

Ancient Farmers: 69/74.3
Western European 26.8/39.2
Levant 4.5/3.3
Iran 8.7/3.4
Eastern Europe 29/28.4

Steppe: 28.5/25.7/
Karasuk-E Scythian 9.9/12.6
Andronovo-Scrubnaya 10.3/5.3
Yamnaya-Afanasievo-Poltavka 8.3/7.8

All people from the Balkans that I've seen so far get around 28% steppe. Probably he has closer to that because of his British ancestry.

In the substructures, again, he's quite different. Comparisons with mixed people are always difficult.

SubSaharan 2.5/0

 

[LeBrok]

He's British, Italian, and Jewish, yes? I think he said half British?

The similarity is in the big blocks, where it's a few point difference either way, and then a 2.5% SSA score for him versus 0 for me. There's a lot more difference when you get to the sub-categories, I'm 12 points higher in Western European Farmers, which makes sense given my location, and I have less than half the Neolithic Iran, Armenian type ancestry.

From what I've seen at anthrogenica, most people get from 3-5% Levant, so I'm on the low end, and a lot of people also get a few percent Iran Neolithic. It would be interesting to know the percentages by area. For ease of reference:
New Englander/Me

Ancient Farmers: 69/74.3
Western European 26.8/39.2
Levant 4.5/3.3
Iran 8.7/3.4
Eastern Europe 29/28.4

Steppe: 28.5/25.7/
Karasuk-E Scythian 9.9/12.6
Andronovo-Scrubnaya 10.3/5.3
Yamnaya-Afanasievo-Poltavka 8.3/7.8

All people from the Balkans that I've seen so far get around 28% steppe. Probably he has closer to that because of his British ancestry.

In the substructures, again, he's quite different. Comparisons with mixed people are always difficult.

SubSaharan 2.5/0

Dont' you think there is something amiss in this calculator? Now we need to explain how 10% of Scythian got to Italy. I also can't figure out by these admixture and explain how Caucasian admixture increased in Europe during Bronze Age. Did it come with 10% of Levant/Iran? Of course not. This is too much Eurocentric thought in it. Perhaps by Eastern European farmer they mean Anatolian farmer?

 

[matadworf]

Here's mine:
Greek/Peloponnese

Ancient Farmers 76.7

Western Euro Farmers 34.8
Levant 5.1
Neolithic-Chalcolithic Iran CHG 5.5
East Euro Farmers 31.2

Steppe Culture 17.3

Karasuk-E Scythian 1.0
Andronovo Srubnaya 7.0
Yamnaya A P 9.3

African 2.9

East African 2.9
West African 0

Southeast Eurasian 2.7

Eastern Non Africans 0.4

Western European-Scandinavian HG 0

 

[Angela]

Dont' you think there is something amiss in this calculator? Now we need to explain how 10% of Scythian got to Italy. I also can't figure out by these admixture and explain how Caucasian admixture increased in Europe during Bronze Age. Did it come with 10% of Levant/Iran? Of course not. This is too much Eurocentric thought in it. Perhaps by Eastern European farmer they mean Anatolian farmer?

I think it's quite good, actually. I wish I could copy paste the map provided by the creator . It shows, as I said upthread, that the Eastern farmer is indeed not only LBK; it's also Anatolian farmer. It would have come into Italy both from central Europe by means of the northeastern corridor under the Alps, and perhaps directly across the Adriatic, or with Bronze Age movements. The Western European farmer is more Impressa/Cardial, I think, with its incorporated WHG, and the movement of Beaker type farmers into southern France and northern Italy, i.e. the genomes before the arrival of the steppe peoples. I think this is why I always get such high Iberian on calculators based on modern populations. In fact, in some calculators I'm a mix of Iberian and Thessalian, i.e. northern Greece.



I'm still trying to make sense of the substructure in steppe. Perhaps it's because Yamnaya and Andronovo are north of the Alps movements, which would perhaps mean not much of it made it's way into Italy? There was a big settlement of Alans in central into northern Italy, which I used to "blame" for the 2% East Asian/Korean that I habitually get in some calculators. However, I think it's more likely that this breakdown highlights the different "waves" from the steppe, Yamnaya, then Andronovo like, then more "eastern" like. Wasn't Bronze Age 2 sample like that, with more "eastern", Caucasus like ancestry. Some of my Caucasus is "cloaked" in there.

You know, that's very interesting: does some of the "Caucasus" in northern Italy come from slightly different and "later" steppe people?

@matadworf,
Did you do this a while ago? Someone told me they got some weird results at first, but they changed and made more sense later. Maybe you might want to check it again?

Anyway, my slightly more western and slightly "northern" shift makes sense, I think, even with these results.

 

[davef]

He's British, Italian, and Jewish, yes? I think he said half British?

The similarity is in the big blocks, where it's a few point difference either way, and then a 2.5% SSA score for him versus 0 for me. There's a lot more difference when you get to the sub-categories, I'm 12 points higher in Western European Farmers, which makes sense given my location, and I have less than half the Neolithic Iran, Armenian type ancestry.

From what I've seen at anthrogenica, most people get from 3-5% Levant, so I'm on the low end, and a lot of people also get a few percent Iran Neolithic. It would be interesting to know the percentages by area. For ease of reference:
New Englander/Me

Ancient Farmers: 69/74.3
Western European 26.8/39.2
Levant 4.5/3.3
Iran 8.7/3.4
Eastern Europe 29/28.4

Steppe: 28.5/25.7/
Karasuk-E Scythian 9.9/12.6
Andronovo-Scrubnaya 10.3/5.3
Yamnaya-Afanasievo-Poltavka 8.3/7.8

All people from the Balkans that I've seen so far get around 28% steppe. Probably he has closer to that because of his British ancestry.

In the substructures, again, he's quite different. Comparisons with mixed people are always difficult.

SubSaharan 2.5/0

I misread the "3" in your western score ("39") as a "2". I was reading through my phone and scrolling faster than I should've.