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Thread: Gencove

  1. #26
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    Why would you expect more northwestern if you're only 1/4 British? Even if you're half British, they're more than half "southern" as it is.


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    Northern and Central Europe

    Reference populations: Norwegian, Orcadian, Scottish, British, Icelandic.

    SO why would they be mostly South Western?

    Im guessing a breakdown of the following:

    Italian:
    Eastern Med 37%
    Middle East 4%
    Iran 7%
    South Western 2%

    Jewish:
    Ashkinazi 22%
    Indian 3%

    Canadian:
    South Western 17%
    North Western 8%


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    Quote Originally Posted by New Englander View Post
    Really though, Im not sure why my South Western European is so high, its a 2:1 ratio compared to North Western European, that just does not coincide with the surnames from the family tree.

    Gallagher
    MacDougall
    Prince (french?)
    Coates (french?)
    Nash
    Bennett (french?)
    Currier (French? )
    None of the reference samples for northwestern are from mainland Europe. They are all from UK and Scandinavia. So if you have ancestors from France, Low Countries, Germany, And Switzerland a decent percentage will be assigned to Southwestern because its the closest region. Ethnicity estimates are all about how you compare to the reference samples being used and have very little to do with where your ancestors were actually born.

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    I know, that is what I'm implying. Obviously a majority of the ancestry is NOT from Scotland, the UK, or Ireland.

    Now, would it be possible for Native American genes to be identified as South Western Europe? Lack of samples from Mik'maqu populations may be a factor. Since French-Canadians have a high mixture of Native Ancestry in some areas, the lack of samples may lead to the assumption of a founder effect and labeled French? (South Western). Basically could say 4-5% of that 19% be misidentified Native American?

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    Quote Originally Posted by New Englander View Post
    I know, that is what I'm implying. Obviously a majority of the ancestry is NOT from Scotland, the UK, or Ireland.

    Now, would it be possible for Native American genes to be identified as South Western Europe? Lack of samples from Mik'maqu populations may be a factor. Since French-Canadians have a high mixture of Native Ancestry in some areas, the lack of samples may lead to the assumption of a founder effect and labeled French? (South Western). Basically could say 4-5% of that 19% be misidentified Native American?
    I’m 50% French Canadian back to 1650 and I don’t register any Native American on my various DNA tests. If you are part Metis then you will probably register some. However, the French Canadians in Quebec tended to marry other French Canadians.

    I’m pretty sure that there is no correlation between Southwestern European and Native American. I get 27% Southwestern European on Gencove. This is due to there being no references samples for most of France. Many French Canadians came from La Rochelle. On a map you will see that that port is closer to Atlantic Spain than to Scandinavia or the Orkney Islands. So a lot of these Western and Central French genes get assigned to the Iberian Peninsula

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    Quote Originally Posted by New Englander View Post
    I know, that is what I'm implying. Obviously a majority of the ancestry is NOT from Scotland, the UK, or Ireland.

    Now, would it be possible for Native American genes to be identified as South Western Europe? Lack of samples from Mik'maqu populations may be a factor. Since French-Canadians have a high mixture of Native Ancestry in some areas, the lack of samples may lead to the assumption of a founder effect and labeled French? (South Western). Basically could say 4-5% of that 19% be misidentified Native American?
    Comparing my parents' and my sample (all of us should have North East Amerindians) with one of my grand-mother's sample (who should have only Europeans), the difference is trace amount of Asian DNA. Finnish, Siberian, Central Asian, South Asian, South East Asian, Oceanian, East Asian, a bit from one or another, depending of the test. Your unexplained South Asian, could be coming from Acadia.

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    Id like to see some North Eastern Native Americans results. I think there were two waves of natives into the Americas. The pre-Clovis and the Arctic Hunters. I'm wondering if they were a mixed population being so close to the Arctic, or if they were identical to the other Eastern Woodland tribes.

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    47% Southwestern Europe
    40% Northern and Central Europe
    5% Eastern Mediterranean
    5% Northeast Europe
    3% Iran Caucasus Anatolia


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    Quote Originally Posted by alexfritz View Post
    47% Southwestern Europe
    40% Northern and Central Europe
    5% Eastern Mediterranean
    5% Northeast Europe
    3% Iran Caucasus Anatolia


    Your other half is all that southwestern European that Angela got so yeah youre definitely 1/2 north Italian.
    mmmmmmmmm dooouuughhhnuuuutz

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    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Your other half is all that southwestern European that Angela got so yeah youre definitely 1/2 north Italian.
    Absolutely not. I'll repeat. No one who is half Lombard and half German is going to get these scores. They'd be more "northern", i.e. higher northern Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Absolutely not. I'll repeat. No one who is half Lombard and half German is going to get these scores. They'd be more "northern", i.e. higher northern Europe.
    I agree. I’m half Belgian (similar to southwest Germany) and half French Canadian which is an average of French HGDP according to FTDNA. On Gencove I get 68% Northern and Central, 27% Southwestern, and 5% Eastern Med.

    Based on his scores his German is probably more northern Italian or his Italian does not have much of a Lombard influence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwauthy View Post
    I agree. I’m half Belgian (similar to southwest Germany) and half French Canadian which is an average of French HGDP according to FTDNA. On Gencove I get 68% Northern and Central, 27% Southwestern, and 5% Eastern Med.

    Based on his scores his German is probably more northern Italian or his Italian does not have much of a Lombard influence.
    as i mentioned on the other thread, #33 is the concatenated b37[FTDNA] build means it incl the x-chr which is solely from the mother but not sure if gencove factors that in however, yet when i send in initially just the autosome build b36_autos[FTDNA] without the x-chr that was my result;
    VSMablu.jpg

    not sure what academic papers you have seen but lombards(bergamo etc.) are fully south european close to tuscans, greeks and albanians (not french or cen_eu) and with a strong affinity towards modern sardinians which is neolithic based; for example in recent papers like haber et al the most shared alleles/drift with sidon_ba were modern sardinians and north_italians (neolithic based) or fregel et al TOR is more similar to Middle Neolithic/Chalcolithic Europeans, and, among modern populations, to populations from Spain, North Italy and Sardinia plus other such informative passages from other academic papers; and since this is the manner in which results are discussed, angela who is fully north italian only scored 8% NC but since she is not from lombardia i doubt she shared much drift with the sardinians/(orig.pop) in Geneplaza K25 (judging by her pardoned surprise) yet that is something someone from lombardia specifically ought to have (academic based); in several GEDmatch calculators a criteria to tell north_italian from south_italian is actually by east-med / west_med proportions not so much by other proportions;

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    Not sure what you mean, Alex. I don't think Sardinians are close to any other population, and north Italians and Greeks aren't terribly close either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexfritz View Post
    as i mentioned on the other thread, #33 is the concatenated b37[FTDNA] build means it incl the x-chr which is solely from the mother but not sure if gencove factors that in however, yet when i send in initially just the autosome build b36_autos[FTDNA] without the x-chr that was my result;
    VSMablu.jpg

    not sure what academic papers you have seen but lombards(bergamo etc.) are fully south european close to tuscans, greeks and albanians (not french or cen_eu) and with a strong affinity towards modern sardinians which is neolithic based; for example in recent papers like haber et al the most shared alleles/drift with sidon_ba were modern sardinians and north_italians (neolithic based) or fregel et al TOR is more similar to Middle Neolithic/Chalcolithic Europeans, and, among modern populations, to populations from Spain, North Italy and Sardinia plus other such informative passages from other academic papers; and since this is the manner in which results are discussed, angela who is fully north italian only scored 8% NC but since she is not from lombardia i doubt she shared much drift with the sardinians/(orig.pop) in Geneplaza K25 (judging by her pardoned surprise) yet that is something someone from lombardia specifically ought to have (academic based); in several GEDmatch calculators a criteria to tell north_italian from south_italian is actually by east-med / west_med proportions not so much by other proportions;
    Thanks for the info! I always assumed northern Italians would plot closer to Central Europeans. You score 40% Southeastern Europe on FTDNA. I always assumed there was a large farming component in the West and Central Europe category and that Southeastern was more Mediterranean than Northern Italian. I wonder what Angela scored on FTDNA if she ever took that specific test.

    My mom is French Canadian and scored 99% West and Central Europe and French people have a significant Neolithic farming component.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwauthy View Post
    Thanks for the info! I always assumed northern Italians would plot closer to Central Europeans. You score 40% Southeastern Europe on FTDNA. I always assumed there was a large farming component in the West and Central Europe category and that Southeastern was more Mediterranean than Northern Italian. I wonder what Angela scored on FTDNA if she ever took that specific test.

    My mom is French Canadian and scored 99% West and Central Europe and French people have a significant Neolithic farming component.
    I never took FTDNA.

    On some calculators I get 20% Northwestern European.

    @alexfritz,
    I'm not 100% Northern Italian, unless you consider eastern Ligurians (1/4) and northwestern Tuscans (1/4) Northern Italian.

    On gedmatch calculators I plot right between Bergamo and Firenze, which makes perfect sense.

    I'm quite different from someone from the Veneto or Bergamo, but I'm also very different from anyone south of Tuscany.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexfritz View Post
    in several GEDmatch calculators a criteria to tell north_italian from south_italian is actually by east-med / west_med proportions not so much by other proportions;
    Not really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwauthy View Post
    Thanks for the info! I always assumed northern Italians would plot closer to Central Europeans. You score 40% Southeastern Europe on FTDNA. I always assumed there was a large farming component in the West and Central Europe category and that Southeastern was more Mediterranean than Northern Italian. I wonder what Angela scored on FTDNA if she ever took that specific test.

    My mom is French Canadian and scored 99% West and Central Europe and French people have a significant Neolithic farming component.
    cant find the link anymore, but someone gave me a link as to what the myOrigins is modeled on and if i remember it correctly than West and Central incl french-swiss and southeastern the sardinians; and if there is one pattern i have noticed by my results is that i am wherever the sardinians are in gencove southwestern in myorigins southeastern in genographic southern and the K25/K29 on geneplaza underlined it all just nicely; i assumed that solely based on the academic data, guess not the wrongest reference to go by; not sure about french but with sardinian you can be certain that EEF goes hand in hand;

    Quote Originally Posted by pratt View Post
    Not really.
    yes, really is the case;

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    Eurogenes calculators are terrible for Italians, so I wouldn't rely on them for any trends...

    That whole "East Med" category is bogus as far as I'm concerned, unless by East Med is meant Greece and the Aegean islands. If people want to look at SW Asian, then look at that. If they want to look at Caucasus, then look at that. In terms of Caucasus, Italians, even Southern Italians, don't have any more Caucasus than Balkan people. Southern Italians have a bit more SW Asian.

    The only calculator that shows a true percentage for West Med versus East Med in a European context is, imo, the ancient dna one done by Kurd. The "eastern" farmers stretched from the Aegean/western Turkey into Central Europe. The SWestern one of which I got a lot is based on a lot of late Neolithic Spanish samples and so has at least 20% WHG. Both Cardial/Impressa and the mainland Balkans farmers started out in the same general area so I doubt that they were all that different, although it would be nice to have a full genome analysis of a Cardial/ Impressa sample. By the late Neolithic, I think some additional gene flow from perhaps Anatolia into the Balkans and then perhaps from there into Italy, brought some additional CHG, but some analyses show a bit of CHG even in LBK.

    That Eurogenes terminology obfuscates more than it illuminates, imo.

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    Alex says:
    "and if there is one pattern i have noticed by my results is that i am wherever the sardinians are in gencove southwestern in myorigins southeastern in genographic southern and the K25/K29 on geneplaza underlined it all just nicely"

    sorry, I didn't get any of that

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    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Alex says:
    "and if there is one pattern i have noticed by my results is that i am wherever the sardinians are in gencove southwestern in myorigins southeastern in genographic southern and the K25/K29 on geneplaza underlined it all just nicely"

    sorry, I didn't get any of that
    what exactly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexfritz View Post
    what exactly?
    That entire quote. I can't decipher it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    That entire quote. I can't decipher it.
    just so there are no misunderstandings i am not complaining/questioning any of my results in fact being half central european and half south european i think all my results are spot on; i like them a lot;

    as for the quote, if i understood it correctly than clusters are based on populations and if such a cluster incl the sardinians my southern half always scores/corresponds with that cluster as should be for north italian (academic based); a quick example there was a calculator called K25 and on that calculator was a cluster called sardinian-sicilian, now not many people scored it and app a lot complained not scoring it so the creator in bold fat letters (mwauthy knows what im talking about) explained that the reason not many score it is because the sardinians are isolated yet if someone did score it it would indicate shared drift with the isolated sardinians and even claimed that that is synonymous with EEF; i scored proper 27% of that sardinian drift (only half north italian!) so it is just a pattern i have noticed by my own results which corresponds to academic results;

    seems as if anthrogenica is knocked out again, when it works i link the link of the creator to you via PM;

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexfritz View Post
    47% Southwestern Europe
    40% Northern and Central Europe
    5% Eastern Mediterranean
    5% Northeast Europe
    3% Iran Caucasus Anatolia

    Gencove is like many who note these areas

    SW Europe = iberia , southern france and NW Italy representing the Gallic influence

    NW Europe = north france, Britain, swiss , austria, lombard and NE italy, denmark and germany

    Greece and albania with southern Italy

    Others place bulgari, romania and hungaria seperate ...gencove does not

    the top 3 I have seen on many occasions by many companies
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    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    It was a Sardinian/Sicilian cluster. IT WAS NOT JUST SARDINIAN.

    It could as well mean closeness to Sicilians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    It was a Sardinian/Sicilian cluster. IT WAS NOT JUST SARDINIAN.

    It could as well mean closeness to Sicilians.
    def not in my case i score 0.0% sicilian k29 yet 27% sardinian-sicilian k25 (the pattern); when anthrogenica works again ill link to the creators explanation #533 of sardinian-sicilian being sardinian 'original population drift' meaning you can read it first hand (from the creator);

    @Sile
    for the two clusters you mentioned gencove writes the following

    Southwestern Europe

    Reference populations: Southern French, Spanish, Basque, and Sardinian.

    Northern and Central Europe

    Reference populations: Norwegian, Orcadian, Scottish, British, Icelandic.

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