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Thread: Blood types in ancient Europe

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    Blood types in ancient Europe

    Rhesus:

    Rh- was common in both Proto-Indo-Europeans and hunter-gatherers, but not in Neolithic farmers:

    http://mathii.github.io/2017/09/21/b...ancient-europe

    "(...) It turns out that the O allele is at high frequency in hunter-gatherers, but relatively rare on the Steppe. The B allele seems to be absent in both hunter-gatherers and early farmers, and seems to be introduced from the steppe in the Bronze Age. The Rh- allele seems to be relatively common in hunter-gatherers and, particularly, in steppe populations, and relatively rare in early farmers, partly confirming Haldane and Cavalli-Sforza’s hypotheses. Allele frequency estimates are in the figures below (bars show 95% binomial confidence intervals). (...)"

    "(...) If we compute expected phenotypic frequencies, this suggests that around around 65% of Mesolithic hunter-gatherers would have been type O, compared to around 40% in present-day Europeans, and around 40% of Steppe-ancestry individuals would have been Rh-, compared to around 24% of hunter-gatherers, 4% of early farmers, and about 16% of present-day Europeans. (...)"

    This is from Ian Mathieson:

    https://twitter.com/mathiesoniain/st...01882063142913



    Rh blood groups in modern Europe (look at this high frequency of Rh- in Ukraine):

    This maps shows frequencies of Rh+ (and low frequency of Rh+ = high of Rh-):



    ABO:

    Blood O is the most indigenous, blood B appears only after Indo-European invasions:

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...4/135616-1.pdf

    From pages 53-54:

    "We estimated allele frequencies at three markers that largely determine ABO blood group.14
    The 1-base deletion rs8176719 that is the most common type O mutation is at high frequency
    in hunter-gatherers. Combining all hunter-gatherer populations, we estimate the frequency of
    the O allele to be 84% (95% CI: 76-89%), which implies that the frequency of the type O
    phenotype which requires homozygosity for the O allele was 71%. This is significantly higher
    than the O allele frequency in present-day Europeans (60-65% in 1000 Genomes populations,
    with corresponding phenotype frequency ~40%). We do not detect the B allele (rs8176746 and rs8176747) in any hunter-gatherers suggesting that all other individuals were type A. In fact, the B allele is not seen in any Neolithic populations either, and is introduced into Europe by Steppe populations who we estimate carry it at ~8% frequency."

    ========

    Indo-Europeans introduced B, but A was still much more common among them. On the other hand, O was relatively rare among them, and more commong among WHG hunters and EEF farmers.

    This map shows the modern distribution of A allele in Europe:



    O is the least Indo-European, associated with WHG and EEF:



    Finally, modern frequencies of B allele in Western Eurasia:


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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Rh negative was not exclusively Indo-European, as it was common among WHG as well. On the other hand, it was very rare among Early Neolithic Farmers of Anatolian origin. What implications does it have when it comes to serological conflicts in ancient Europe? As you know sometimes Rh incompatibility between parents causes serological conflict in children of such couples. Modern medicine can prevent serological conflict, but that was not the case in ancient times. Haplogroup frequencies could change partially due to serological conflicts. Maybe this partially explains the decline of Y-DNA G2a, the rise of Y-DNA R1b and mtDNA H in Western Europe.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Interesting. I am -AB

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    Yes, very interesting. I am B+, my husband 0+, and we have one sone 0+ and one son O-. My mother was AB, and father was O+ (with one brother O-) and I have a mix of A and B brothers and sisters.

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    My mom is O- and I am AB-(at least through predictor so it could be off). Where is AB- most common? My father and 2 of my sisters are RH+. I don't know specific group though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziober View Post
    Interesting. I am -AB
    Mine is also AB-

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    Mine is A- (the same of my dad).
    Mum is B-

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    Dibran, your type doesn't make sense to me, and it could be that my understanding of blood type is faulty. The way type inheritance was explained to me was that both parents carry two types. For instance my dad was O so both of his parents had to be O and he could only give me an O. My mom was AB, so one of her parents gave her an A and the other a B, so she could only give A or B. I was B, I was given B from mother and O from father which makes me OB, I gave both of my sons O, and my husband, who is O, gave them O. If I had given them B, then they would also be OB, and be type B because O is recessive.

    Would love to hear comments and have a correction to my understanding if I am wrong.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I'm so hunter-gatherer lol, O-
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheal View Post
    Dibran, your type doesn't make sense to me, and it could be that my understanding of blood type is faulty. The way type inheritance was explained to me was that both parents carry two types. For instance my dad was O so both of his parents had to be O and he could only give me an O. My mom was AB, so one of her parents gave her an A and the other a B, so she could only give A or B. I was B, I was given B from mother and O from father which makes me OB, I gave both of my sons O, and my husband, who is O, gave them O. If I had given them B, then they would also be OB, and be type B because O is recessive.

    Would love to hear comments and have a correction to my understanding if I am wrong.
    You could be right. Mine was guesstimated from those raw data apps. So it could be mostly wrong. My mom says shes O- as far as she recalls from her last bloodwork. If I am AB- then I presume(assuming you got the right idea) that one is A the other B? I just know my moms Rh- for sure and my father Rh+. My moms womb did not reject me as is the case with Rh- women. So I assume I am Rh- given that my 2 sisters who also had a normal birth are Rh-. my mother needed some type of medication to keep her body from attacking my other 2 siblings who are Rh+ like my father. Is the raw data conversion app for eye color hair, and bloodtype accurate? If so, I imagine the prediction is correct.

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    I am B -, odd for my ancestry, but great Britain does have the highest frequency in Europe.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    O+ here, yes I come from the monkey lineage.
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    Mine is B+ blood type.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheal View Post
    Dibran, your type doesn't make sense to me, and it could be that my understanding of blood type is faulty. The way type inheritance was explained to me was that both parents carry two types. For instance my dad was O so both of his parents had to be O and he could only give me an O. My mom was AB, so one of her parents gave her an A and the other a B, so she could only give A or B. I was B, I was given B from mother and O from father which makes me OB, I gave both of my sons O, and my husband, who is O, gave them O. If I had given them B, then they would also be OB, and be type B because O is recessive.

    Would love to hear comments and have a correction to my understanding if I am wrong.
    This should help:

    http://science.halleyhosting.com/sci.../bloodtype.htm

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    mine A+
    father special O- :)

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    Thank you vcovaci. I have to admit, I think OB smells better than BO

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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Very interesting. Thanks for posting, Tomenable.

    The role of Rh+ is still unclear but it has been linked to protection against toxoplasmosis (passed on by cats). So cat lovers had better be Rh+.

    Apparently the B blood type (anti-B antibodies) offers better protection against gram-negative bacteria like E. coli, Salmonella, Chlamydia, Vibrio cholerae (cholera) and Yersinia pestis (plague). The B type is most common in South Asia (40% in India) and Southeast Asia (37% in Thailand). Not surprising as these are regions festering with nasty bacteria.

    AB confers the most resistance against cholera. The AB type is most common in Korea (11%), Japan (10%) and South Asia, followed by the northern Middle East and central-eastern Europe.

    The A type might be more efficient at fighting off influenza. A+ individuals are the most likely to to survive plague, but also more likely to develop cancer of the esophagus, pancreas, and stomach. A is most common in Nordic and German-speaking countries, Bulgaria, Turkey, Cyprus, Portugal and Papua New Guinea. Bouts of flu are indeed more common in colder Germanic countries.

    The O type is protective against cardiovascular diseases and many types of cancer. O is most common in Latin America and Mongolia. In Europe it peaks in Iceland and Ireland (55%), then Britain (44%), the Low countries (46%), Spain (45%), Italy (46%) and Greece (44%).

    More details in this thread.
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    Not that it matters to anyone but me, but I'm A+, not B+. I had to go back and check because it doesn't seem to stick in my head. :)

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    There was an unexplained issue to me in regards to different blood in my family
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    Blood types in ancient Europe

    I’m Rh 0+
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    Mother AB+
    Father A+

    I am A-

    Croatia

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    There is also the ABO incompatibility, generally with mild effects: http://www.pregnancy.com.au/resource...newborns.shtml
    It happens when the mother has O blood type and the baby has either A or B.
    I'm A+. Parents are both A+ in phenotype and AO in genotype.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheal View Post
    Dibran, your type doesn't make sense to me, and it could be that my understanding of blood type is faulty. The way type inheritance was explained to me was that both parents carry two types. For instance my dad was O so both of his parents had to be O
    In fact, his parents could be A or B or O in phenotype and AO or BO or OO in genotype.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wheal View Post
    and he could only give me an O.
    That's correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    There is also the ABO incompatibility, generally with mild effects: http://www.pregnancy.com.au/resource...newborns.shtml
    It happens when the mother has O blood type and the baby has either A or B.
    I'm A+. Parents are both A+ in phenotype and AO in genotype.

    In fact, his parents could be A or B or O in phenotype and AO or BO or OO in genotype.


    That's correct.
    Would there be any issue with the child if the man is A and the woman is O?

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    Interesting, Regio X. With my first son (O+), I was given Rhogam after his birth. He had no jaundice effects and was a full term baby.

    Second son was very jaundiced (O-), didn't see Rhogam on the hospital bill but remember that I was instructed to let him lay in sunlight with no clothes each time I changed his diaper, for about 10 minutes. The jaundice did slowly go away. I had to have amnio twice with his pregnancy, to check lung gases, to make sure his lungs were mature enough to be born (by c-section). The first time he was not, the second time, he was not quite, but scheduled for delivery the following week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Promenade View Post
    Would there be any issue with the child if the man is A and the woman is O?
    There could be any problem when father is + and mother - (the letter never mind)

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