Blood types in ancient Europe

I am A+ Blood Group, as is my father, my brother and my son, Is it possible for one blood group to stay in generations of a persons single Y-Haplogroup or mtDNA haplogroup
 
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I am A+ Blood Group, as is my father, my brother and my son, Is it possible for one blood group to stay in generations of a persons single Y-Haplogroup or mtDNA haplogroup
It all depends. If you are for example homozygote AA and you don't marry someone blood type B, the A phenotype will be passed on. But if there is a B coupling with a recessive O, then the A will be "lost".
 
Thanks for the reply firetown,
 
Not that anyone really cares, but since I haven't posted in a while: O+ :)
 

Sadly, the information on that page is outdated as it is quite possible for example for an AB and O couple to have children with blood types AB and O if in fact the AB parent is what is called cisAB:

When one parent carries a Cis AB allele, the other allele can be any of O, A or B and the phenotype of this parent is always AB, but the children will inherit either the AB or the other allele from this parent.


  1. If the other parent is O phenotype (OO genotype) there are three possible scenarios for the blood group of children of a Cis AB carrier (and a 4th very unlikely scenario):
    1. The second allele is O: children are either AB or O
    2. Second allele is A: Children are either AB or A
    3. Second allele is B: Children are either AB or B
    4. A very rare 4th possibility exists: if the other allele is also Cis AB then the children will be always AB irrespective whatever the other parent is, because they will have one cis AB allele from this parent.
  2. If the other parent is type A, depending on whether this parent is genotypically AA or AO and what the other allele is in the Cis Ab carrying parent, the following scenarios are possible:
    1. Other parent is AO and second allele is O: The children are either AB or A or O
    2. Other parent is AA and the second allele is O: The children are either AB or A
    3. Other parent is AO and second allele is A: The children are either AB or A
    4. Other parent is AA and the second allele is A: The children are either AB or A
    5. Other parent is AO and the second allele is B: The children are either AB or B
    6. Other parent is AA and the second allele is B: The children are always AB
    7. Rare situation: If the other allele is also cis AB:The children are always AB
  3. Likewise, there will be similar scenarios for the other parent being type B:
    1. Other parent is BO and second allele is O: The children are either AB or B or O
    2. Other parent is BO and second allele is A: The children are either AB or A
    3. Other parent is BO and the second allele is B: The children are always AB or B
    4. Other parent is BB and the second allele is B: The children are either AB or B
    5. Other parent is BB and the second allele is O: The children are either AB or B
    6. Other parent is BB and the second allele is A: The children are always AB
    7. Rare situation: If the other allele is also cis AB:The children are always AB
(Caution: ABO inheritance is generally derived assuming the children are not the very rare Bombay phenotype which would require both parents to be carriers of it.)
 
Im B-, Seems to be more common in East Asia, but had some hot spots in Central Europe. All in all, I wouldent put to much into it. Its like Haplogroups, just a part of the puzzle.
 
How do you determine whether its Rh+ or Rh-? The app does not seem to specify.
 
Im B-, Seems to be more common in East Asia, but had some hot spots in Central Europe. All in all, I wouldent put to much into it. Its like Haplogroups, just a part of the puzzle.

Right... if the puzzle gets too difficult, just throw the pieces into the garbage and forget about it. :eek:
 
Very interesting. Thanks for posting, Tomenable.

The role of Rh+ is still unclear but it has been linked to protection against toxoplasmosis (passed on by cats). So cat lovers had better be Rh+.

Just found something interesting, in fact being Rh-heterozygote is protective not against toxoplasmosis in general, but diminished the negative effects, one of which is the slowing of reflexes.

As it is mentioned in the above study:
[FONT=&quot]This high frequency in Europe has long been surprising because the Rh- phenotype has an obviously deleterious effect. In particular, if an Rh- mother has an Rh+ child (because the child inherited a Rh+ allele from its father), then it’s possible for the mother to produce antibodies against the Rh+ antigen leading to haemolytic disease and severe illness for the for the child. There are three common explanations for the high frequency of the Rh- allele. First, there might be some (unknown) beneficial effect of the Rh-allele. Effects like this related to malaria resistance are what drive the high frequencies of the sickle cell trait and many thalassemias. On the other hand, no obvious selective advantage is known, there are [/FONT]no obvious genomic signals of selection[FONT=&quot] on the Rh- allele, and if there were a selective advantage to the Rh- allele then we might ask why [/FONT]it[FONT=&quot] hasn’t fixed, since once the Rh- frequency rose above 50%, it would be selected for, rather than against. [/FONT]
In fact the following study makes some intriguing suggestions.

Toxoplasma and reaction time: role of toxoplasmosisin the origin, preservation and geographical distributionof Rh blood group polymorphism


https://web.natur.cuni.cz/flegr/pdf/rh.pdf

SUMMARYThe RhD protein which is the RHD gene product and a major component of the Rh blood group system carries thestrongest blood group immunogen, the D-antigen. This antigen is absent in a significant minority of the human population(RhD-negatives) due to RHD deletion or alternation. The origin and persistence of this RhD polymorphism is an oldevolutionary enigma. Before the advent of modern medicine, the carriers of the rarer allele (e.g. RhD-negative women inthe population of RhD-positives or RhD-positive men in the population of RhD-negatives) were at a disadvantage as someof their children (RhD-positive children born to pre-immunized RhD-negative mothers) were at a higher risk of foetal ornewborn death or health impairment from haemolytic disease. Therefore, the RhD-polymorphism should be unstable,unless the disadvantage of carriers of the locally less abundant allele is counterbalanced by, for example, higher viability ofthe heterozygotes. Here we demonstrated for the first time that among Toxoplasma-free subjects the RhD-negative menhad faster reaction times than Rh-positive subjects and showed that heterozygous men with both the RhD plus and RhDminus alleles were protected against prolongation of reaction times caused by infection with the common protozoan parasiteToxoplasma gondii. Our results suggest that the balancing selection favouring heterozygotes could explain the origin andstability of the RhD polymorphism. Moreover, an unequal prevalence of toxoplasmosis in different countries could explainpronounced differences in frequencies of RhD-negative phenotype in geographically distinct populations.

It is possible that the better psychomotorperformance of RhD-negative subjects in theToxoplasma-free population could be the reason forspreading of the ‘d allele’ (deletion) in the Europeanpopulation. In contrast to the situation in Africa andcertain (but not all) regions of Asia, the abundance ofwild cats (definitive hosts of Toxoplasma gondii) inthe European territory was very low before the adventof the domestic cat (Torrey and Yolken, 1995).Therefore, the prevalence of latent toxoplasmosisin the prehistoric European population was alsoprobably negligible. Currently, the frequency ofRhD-negative subjects in the Caucasian population(with about 30% prevalence of toxoplasmosis) isabout 20% while in the African population with avery high prevalence of toxoplasmosis (RoeverBonnet,1972) it is only 5% (Daniels, 2002).Theoretically, we could expect the decrease of theRhD-minus allele in the European population afterthe advent of the domestic cat; however, this eventwas relatively recent and probably coincided withrelaxation of many forms of natural selection.The protective effect of RhD against theToxoplasma-induced impairment of psychomotorperformance could explain not only the differencesin frequency of RhD-negative subjects in toxoplasmosis-lowand toxoplasmosis-high regions,but also the origin and primary spreading of RHDgene (RHCED duplication) in our African ancestors.A comparison of mean reaction times betweeninfected dd homozygotes and Dd heterozygotesshows that the protective effect of the RhD genotypeon Toxoplasma-induced reaction time changes isrelatively strong.

Reaction times play an importantrole in interactions with prey and predators as well asin intraspecies combats. In our evolutionary past,the frequency of toxoplasmosis in populations ofour ancestors was probably rather high due to consumptionof raw or undercooked meat and generallylower hygiene standards. Under such conditions, theRhD heterozygotes with the shortest reaction timeswere probably favoured by natural and sexualselection, which could only partly be counterbalancedby the selection against RhD-negativewomen with lower reproductive success.

If I understand correctly Rh negative individuals due to their better psychomotor performance had a distinct advantage in hand to hand combats and in warrior societies. Hence the high incidents of Rh- among Yamnaya people could have helped them conquer the neolithic farmers ( who were largely Rh positive).
 
[/I]If I understand correctly Rh negative individuals due to their better psychomotor performance had a distinct advantage in hand to hand combats and in warrior societies. Hence the high incidents of Rh- among Yamnaya people could have helped them conquer the neolithic farmers ( who were largely Rh positive).
Interesting. I have worked with Prof. Flegr on this study:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141362
(Mike Dammann is my name)
Do you have any more data on the Yamnaya people being high in rh negative blood? Would love to look at it.
 
Interesting. I have worked with Prof. Flegr on this study:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141362
(Mike Dammann is my name)
Do you have any more data on the Yamnaya people being high in rh negative blood? Would love to look at it.

Тhat is the paradox - Rh- people have numerous health problems compared to Rh+, but this harmful mutation is still widely spread. The conclusion is that it must have some unknown benefits, which the study with toxoplasma link is trying to explain.

The Yamnaya Rh status was extracted from the published ancient genomes as is mentioned in the initial study. Maybe there is more data since, if somebody could mine it from there.
http://mathii.github.io/2017/09/21/blood-groups-in-ancient-europe
 
I have a Rh+ and my predecessors lived in a circle in a first picture.
The haplogroup R1A increased here mainly because of a milk lactation.
 
Тhat is the paradox - Rh- people have numerous health problems compared to Rh+, but this harmful mutation is still widely spread. The conclusion is that it must have some unknown benefits, which the study with toxoplasma link is trying to explain.

I strongly suspect rh negatives being more sensitive towards whatever is bad for people in general and wouldn't be surprised if before pollution, cancer etc., they might have actually been better off than the rest. There could be many other factors such as sex drive as shown in our study. Off hand I can think of a couple of studies showing very low frequencies among HIV patients.

I believe the world as a whole is unhealthy which affects rh negatives more. And who knows, if food was healthier etc., it is quite possible that our overall health might actually better than that of the average person.
 
My dad being negative is the only oddity in the family, as everyone else is O positive. But then we've got a lot of Irish blood; it's the only ancestry my mother and father have in common. With my dad being the universal donor, he gave blood a lot when I was a kid.
 
My dad being negative is the only oddity in the family, as everyone else is O positive. But then we've got a lot of Irish blood; it's the only ancestry my mother and father have in common. With my dad being the universal donor, he gave blood a lot when I was a kid.
I find your mtDNA interesting. Close to:

  • J1c2e : found in northern and central Europe, among the Basques, and in Iran (Persians)
 

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