Admixture in "White Africaners"

[halfalp]

Your taking has counter argument the " nazi " argument, or the " bad argument " everything you think bad, is by essence false... Sandra Laing is 60's story, not a paper from yesterday... Nobody here are nazi, or aryan or whatever, that's your phantasme to being the she-maid who gonna destroys all the nazis or whatever. How somebody like you, with so much knowledge, can come here so naively, to say, bla bla genetic test, south african court. Like juste for that case, now we gonna say, yes, two white peoples can have a black child... What of a disinformation and use, of arguments. That's not the first time i'm disappointing of the use of some taboo words, like nazis, racists, nordicists here, and with a big freedom. Dont pretend to come lightening people knowledge if you are stuck in the 50's with your antifascists agenda...

 

[halfalp]

And by the way, Sandra Laing was not a single child, but had siblings, who are all white and very like theyre father... Ok whatever

 

[firetown]

Yes, it's rare, but it's not impossible. I think King Hussein of Jordan had a Palestinian wife who had honey colored hair if I remember correctly. (His last wife was mostly American.)

Would you say that this might come from Sumerian ancestry? I am curious if there is anything credible on the Sumerian's phenotypes. Red hair seems to pop up in those regions also here and there so I am wondering where these recessive genes might originate.

 

[Angela]

And by the way, Sandra Laing was not a single child, but had siblings, who are all white and very like theyre father... Ok whatever

Again, please do your research before opining.

I'm going to give it one more try and then I'm out. Sandra Laing was first classified as black by the South African authorities based on skin pigmentation charts and skull and facial measurements despite being legally the child of "white" parents. Then, after years, and at the insistence of her father, who took it all the way to the South African Supreme Court, the South African courts looked at dna evidence that showed she was the biological child of her "white" classified parents, and reversed the standards previously used and legally classified her as white. Of course, she was still ostracized by "white" looking Afrikaners. When she ran away with a black South African man they had to live in the tribal areas. When she went to apply for an identity document as "colored", she was refused on the grounds that she was now "white". She and her black partner were jailed for miscegenation.

Here is a documentary done about her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYZyvxpsCjQ

Of the three children of this family, one looked mulatto (Sandra), one looked white (her older brother), and one, her younger brother, looked "white enough" (despite his African hair, and obviously "different" complexion, he was lighter than Sandra), and so his original status as the "white" child of "white" parents was never changed. As an added irony, the educator who expelled Sandra from the white school for being black looks admixed himself to me.

View attachment 9403

I don't have anything more to say to someone who can't see the utter insanity of this and insists it's some sort of conspiracy when the evidence comes from the South African courts themselves. If you have a problem with the determination of the South African courts of the time (this actually played out in the 70s), you should complain to them, not me.

You clearly lack an understanding of how pigmentation and facial and hair features can vary in families with a mix of racial ancestry. This is a Lumbee family, a tri-racial group from the Carolinas. One or perhaps two of those children could definitely pass. The others could not. This was common in admixed people. Of Thomas Jefferson's children with his slave Sally Hemings, most could and did pass. Two could not, they looked too black, and so they remained part of the African American community.

Melungeon family:

 

[halfalp]

" You clearly lack an understanding of how pigmentation and facial and hair features can vary in families with a mix of racial ancestry. " Ok well, that's change everything because last time i checked, both parents clearly stipulate they dont had any Black ancestors...

 

[davef]

Cliffnotes version:

The law says: if you fit the profile of a white person based on skin tone and cranial measures, or if you are born to white parents, you are white

Court says: Oh! How could this black girl POSSIBLY be the biological child of these white parents?

Years later...

Court says: oh, based on these DNA results she is the offspring of these two white individual and is thus legally white.

She runs off with her South African black friend to join a tribe where she attempts to change her status from white to black but is denied and is sent to prison with her friend joining her.

 

[Angela]

Would you say that this might come from Sumerian ancestry? I am curious if there is anything credible on the Sumerian's phenotypes. Red hair seems to pop up in those regions also here and there so I am wondering where these recessive genes might originate.

Do you mean why light hair might sometimes pop up in Palestinians or other Levantine populations?

We have genetic results from the Anatolian Neolithic samples and even the occasional Levant Neolithic sample where some of the people seemed to have the derived snps not only for both the major skin depigmentation snps, but also for blue eyes and light hair. So, those snps have been in the Near East for a long time, even if in some areas persistent diffusion from the south and east has "swamped" them. Indeed, as an example, by the Bronze Age, the Levant was pretty dark.

Then, there is an opposite gene flow from Indo-Iranian groups perhaps, maybe "Sea Peoples" if they really came from the Aegean or the Balkans, maybe even a Crusader or too.

I don't see how anyone could figure out the exact source.

Anyway, while some really fair-skinned or even naturally fair-haired Palestinians might exist, I've personally never seen any. The Druze are a bit lighter, and some Alawites also, including Assad, but these are isolated populations who didn't absorb slaves in the post Islamic era, or even just tribal people from the area of Saudi Arabia, and have been subject to drift. Still, even among them it's a rarity.

There are some naturally fair Turks, at least in western Turkey, but even there natural blondes are not common.

 

[Odysseus]

Would you say that this might come from Sumerian ancestry? I am curious if there is anything credible on the Sumerian's phenotypes. Red hair seems to pop up in those regions also here and there so I am wondering where these recessive genes might originate.

Short answer, no.

 

[Govan]

I doubt white South-Africans even Afrikaners would pass as more 'nordiclike' than white Dutch people. Concerning French Huguenots they left a very very heavy onprint on Afrikaners surname (Du Randt, Du Plessis, De Villiers, Du Toit, Du Preez, Durpez, Roux, Le Roux, Terblanche, Olivier, Cronje (Crosnier?), Joubert, Naude, Marais, Fourie, maybe Serfontein...).
Concerning phenotypes, some "white" Afrikaners show some doubious details in their features, evocating some possible SSA input, even if rare. But we know a 3% exotic genes cannot leave a deep print on phenotype, only in some individuals, and these rare occurrences of external "unappropriate" traits are often easily eliminated by sexual or social selection in a few generation. I suppose we could say that in racist societies, phenotypes are always "purer" than total genotypes for this reason. What I think I remarked is they show some traces of selection towards rude, harsh types, more on the physical skills side than on the intellectual skills side.

Lol . Obviously Afrikaaners are going to be more musclar proportionally than the lanky Dutch when genealogically they are goodly 35-40% German (mostly the Saxon North).
Anyway a good friend is full Boer and get English at top 1 and 2 at Gedmatch closest population
Dutch is at4 or 5 top, lol funny if you know the history between Boers and the English.

 

[MOESAN]

@Govan
Very possible: I saw some british names (Saxons, Celtic, Normans) among the Afrikaners society, spite their first names were rather "boer-like" (Germanic or latinized often germanic christian names); so nothing impossible; and some auDNA overlaps exist between some British people and N-W Germanic Europe - it remains that the bulk of the Boers surnames were Dutch, French and German.

 

[Dr Daniel Junglehart]

Yea they love there people and homelands and preferred people that look a certain way that’s all probably prostitution baby’s got in the gene pool or rape of the superior white jk they lived in Africa just people that live near the ports got some different genes then from Europe for sure.

 

[Angela]

Yea they love there people and homelands and preferred people that look a certain way that’s all probably prostitution baby’s got in the gene pool or rape of the superior white jk they lived in Africa just people that live near the ports got some different genes then from Europe for sure.

They were imperialist racists, as was the case in all the European colonies. In this case, their 6% "other" comes from the fact that in the beginning there were no "white" women.

As long as it didn't "show" any more, they preferred to ignore it, but it's there in the records for anyone who does the searches, apparently.

The "mixed" ancestry is not in the English descent South Africans, btw, most of whom live in the Capetown area. It's in the Afrikaners who trekked to the interior.

 

[Terrance Stuart]

As an American I can say that black slaves in North America grew their population whereas those located in South America and the Middle East suffered tremendous privation by comparison. Black slaves were 10 times more valuable then Irish slaves in North America. Reason was they were able to resist malaria better then whites. In Jamaica it is suggested that slaveholders used Irish female slaves to interbreed with blacks in order to get a higher price which was late outlawed not due to racism but because of genetic failure to pass on resistance to Malaria.

 

[DarknessC]

Not surprised