the formation of the Iran neolithic

[bicicleur]

Laziridis 2016 :

Extreme regional differentiation in the ancient Near East
PCA on present-day West Eurasian populations (Methods)(Extended Data Fig. 1) on which we projected the ancient individuals(Fig. 1b) replicates previous findings of a Europe-Near Eastcontrast along the horizontal Principal Component 1 (PC1) and parallelclines (PC2) in both Europe and the Near East (Extended DataFig. 1)7,8,13. Ancient samples from the Levant project at one end of theNear Eastern cline, and ancient samples from Iran at the other. Thetwo Caucasus Hunter Gatherers (CHG)9 are less extreme along PC1than the Mesolithic and Neolithic individuals from Iran, while individualsfrom Chalcolithic Anatolia, Iran, and Armenia, and BronzeAge Armenia occupy intermediate positions.

(I don't have the actual PCA chart in good resolution)

So Iran neo is further away from Levant than CHG.
CHG was there long time and probably there was some limited contact with the Levant.
What must have happened is that some other folks came in prior to the Iran neo.
These other folks didn't have any contacts with the Levant, they probably came from north or east.
Who could they be?
Haplogroup R2 has been identified amongst Iran neolithic.

[Angela]

It doesn't look like that from the graphic, though. Iran Neo is going into CHG, yes?

[bicicleur]

that is how it can be modelled, except CHG is older than Iran neo, so it can't be like that for real
furthermore, in the model this does not say anything about the positions of CHG and Iran neo relative to Levant or Natufian
if you could get a view on the PCA I mentoined above, you could see that Iran Neo is further from Levant Neo and Natufian than CHG

[Angela]

that is how it can be modelled, except CHG is older than Iran neo, so it can't be like that for real
furthermore, in the model this does not say anything about the positions of CHG and Iran neo relative to Levant or Natufian
if you could get a view on the PCA I mentoined above, you could see that Iran Neo is further from Levant Neo and Natufian than CHG

How can we know how long the "parent" population might have been in that area or nearby? That's just the first genome we've found with that make-up. We need older samples. Perhaps they're in the upcoming Caucasus paper.

[bicicleur]

How can we know how long the "parent" population might have been in that area or nearby? That's just the first genome we've found with that make-up. We need older samples. Perhaps they're in the upcoming Caucasus paper.

we need more samples indeed
but both CHG cluster very well together and are associated with Caucasus epigravettian which is quite old (20 ka) compared to Zagros neolithic (12 ka)

[MOESAN]

the assignation of some markers to a supposed ancestral pop is matter of debates. GENETIKER, though we have to be cautious about his interpretations, in his K13 puts some ASI componant into Iran Neol, if I don't mistake, so... It can explain the "eastern" drift compared to old CHG, unless we consider that CHG, spite being here older than Iran Neol, is in fact a mixt with dominant Westasian but with something North Euro, what is very possible indeed?