Local migrations of E-V13 subclades in the Balkans

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hrvat22 said:
We know this on the basis of this https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3toPDBv-MLKc04zdEd6MDJlaTQ/view

Maybe that's not true, but we only have this as a source. If someone has something else to refute this source I will respect that.
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OK, this is the answer to my questions before, I've missed it somehow in the OP. Thanks. I'll certainly have a nice read this evening.

I don't see your haplogroup, may I assume that it is the one this topic is about? Do you know your subclades? BTW, I'm from ZG too.
 
don_joe said:
OK, this is the answer to my questions before, I've missed it somehow in the OP. Thanks. I'll certainly have a nice read this evening.I don't see your haplogroup, may I assume that it is the one this topic is about? Do you know your subclades? BTW, I'm from ZG too.
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I did not research my haplogroup, but I am interested in Croatian haplogroups. Regarding your haplogroup there are four options, 1. comes with Vlachs (Greece, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Albania, Serbia, Romania?) 2. assimilated Illyrians 3. comes with White Croats or some western Europeans 4. alien origin :cool-v:
 
The YSEQ EV-13 panel will not give you detailed, analyzed results. No more, and no less, just your exact position with the Y-tree, the SNP-s required for this is tested on your sample. (about 100 SNP will be tested, but STR-s does not specify. The STR-s define with the Yseq alpha, or the YSEQ Alpha-Beta) If you want more precise and analyzed results, you need to have a Whole Genom Sequence. I made my own sample at YSEQ, but it is not the cheapest (but the fastest) The FtDNA BigY test is cheaper. I ordered a BigY for another Küzmös, who is not my known relative since 200 years but it is in progress yet. So I don't know which test is better.

If you want
 
Of course I don't know what happened about 4000 years ago, and I really new to the ancestral-genetics, but I'm interested the history of the Bronz Age in the Carpathian Basin. More than 30 years I read everything about it. But is is just a theory. The facts: The Bronz Age in the Danubian Basin was very complex. Many culture fluorished here. But in the XV.-XIV. century BC, the Tumulus culture from northeast attacked the local cultures, and much of them fled south, to the Balkan. Maybe the CTS9320 father was one of them. It happened 3500 years ago.
Or another option: The Bronz Age cultures of the Carpathian Basin were collapsed and largely perished at the XIII. century BC. 2-3 Thousend years old settlements died permanently. The attackers were the Tumulus culture. Again. The still living population fled to the south. Again. At that time was the dorian invasion to Hellas, the illyrians moved to the Dinaric mountains, and the Thracians to Thracia. (The phrygians goes from the Balkan to the Anatolia. I think, because the Thracians and/or illyrians invaded their homeland.) This was the big uproar in the eastern-mediterraneum. The Hettita Empire collapsed, and aliens invaded to Egypt. Very interesting, the CTS9320 branch at this time it was divided to 6 main known subclades (Y20805, Z17107, Z25461, Z16988, Z17264, and the * subclades)

But it is just a theory.
 
kuzmosi said:
The YSEQ EV-13 panel will not give you detailed, analyzed results. No more, and no less, just your exact position with the Y-tree, the SNP-s required for this is tested on your sample. (about 100 SNP will be tested, but STR-s does not specify. The STR-s define with the Yseq alpha, or the YSEQ Alpha-Beta) If you want more precise and analyzed results, you need to have a Whole Genom Sequence. I made my own sample at YSEQ, but it is not the cheapest (but the fastest) The FtDNA BigY test is cheaper. I ordered a BigY for another Küzmös, who is not my known relative since 200 years but it is in progress yet. So I don't know which test is better.

If you want
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Thanks again. I'm now a bit confused, sorry for asking again. Between YSEQ E-V13 Panel ($88) and the YSEQ-Alpha-Beta ($85) what would you choose in my place to gather more detailed subclade info? I somehow can't find any explanations online. I understand some basics of SNP and STR, but what does it mean in terms of identifying the subclade branch and finding my closer relatives (or how this topic nicely puts it - the migrations in the Balkans)? Does one of those go further than the other one? I'm ready to spend some reasonable amount of money and I would like to get enough details out of it. I appreciate you kindness.
 
Do you know your main haplogroup is EV-13? Are you sure it?
 
kuzmosi said:
Do you know your main haplogroup is EV-13? Are you sure it?
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Yes I am. That was the result from Living DNA. That's why I also have it under my user name.
 
So, I think, at first order the EV-13 panel. From this, you will know your exact position on the YTREE. If it will be ready, you can investigate further.
 
kuzmosi said:
So, I think, at first order the EV-13 panel. From this, you will know your exact position on the YTREE. If it will be ready, you can investigate further.
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Thank you!
 
eastara said:
You can find detailed data about commercially tested Albanians and Serbs here..
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Apologies for being off-topic but can you tell me about the presence of J-M241 in Bulgaria?
 
eastara said:
For example no Serbs and Albanians are found with the widely distributed S7461, while it is common among Bulgarians and Pomaks. We have Bulgarians also under Y16729 and most probably under Z16663(with 426=10), which is also not found elsewhere on the Balkans(having in mind that Pontic Greeks are just pure Anatolian and not Balkan people).
It seems the most numerous subbranches among Bulgarians are under Z5016/CTS9320 and Z5018/S2979, but as I mentioned other are also common.
However the deep SNP testing among Balkan V13 is not very popular yet and I hope more branches will be identified with time.
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I believe E-S7461 will be found in Albanians sooner or later. One thing to keep in mind is that currently over 80% of our samples come from North Albania and Kosove. E-V13 is quite common in Central and Southern Albania as well, where we have very little testing. So it remains to be seen what's found there.

But I generally agree that E-V13 is pretty diverse all around Balkans including Bulgaria. TMRCA of CTS5856, which makes up over 95% of Balkan V13 is estimated at only ~4000 years. So really interesting how widely distributed this haplogroup has become ever since. IMO, Iron Age Balkan populations (Illyrians, Thracians, Ancient Greeks) all carried it.
 
Regarding V13 I don't agree that most branches among Bulgarians are common with the Albanians, let alone we got them from there. As a project administrator I can see that most Bulgarians don't have any matches above 25 markers and even very rarely match each other on 37 and more markers. For now I can see something in common with the Albanians under L241 only.
Speaking of J2b2, yes, most Bulgarian samples seem to have a Macedonian or other South Western Balkan connection, but again we have too few deeper tested to make a definite judgement. It seems the Albanians are more on the same branches with Italians, while Bulgarians with North Europeans. Practically all Bulgarians who passed the Big Y test are on YFULL, so you can see where we stand there, as the J2 Pack does not get very deep.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L283/
 
eastara said:
Regarding V13 I don't agree that most branches among Bulgarians are common with the Albanians, let alone we got them from there. As a project administrator I can see that most Bulgarians don't have any matches above 25 markers and even very rarely match each other on 37 and more markers. For now I can see something in common with the Albanians under L241 only.
Speaking of J2b2, yes, most Bulgarian samples seem to have a Macedonian or other South Western Balkan connection, but again we have too few deeper tested to make a definite judgement. It seems the Albanians are more on the same branches with Italians, while Bulgarians with North Europeans. Practically all Bulgarians who passed the Big Y test are on YFULL, so you can see where we stand there, as the J2 Pack does not get very deep.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L283/
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Then on that basis make a concrete conclusion, probably an older migration moving from today's Albania to Bulgaria. It is important for me to know which younger branches and subclades of E1b are originally there(Bulgaria) because then we can see whether Vlachs coming and from there to Croatia.
 
V13 or even CTS5856 did not originate in Albania nor it came originally to the rest of the Balkans from there. It only SURVIVED better in the mountain areas of the South Western Balkan during the early Middle ages. Most lowlands along the Danube were almost completely deserted by the old population, and later repopulated either by new migrants from the North and NorthEast or with highlanders who came down later. In the case with the Albanians and Vlach Aromuns it was only in the last few centuries. Some of them settled in the NorthWestern Balkans and it is possible some V13 branches there are brought by them recently. However Bulgarians had some other mountains to hide in like the Balkan and Rhodopes, where other branches survived.
 
eastara said:
V13 or even CTS5856 did not originate in Albania nor it came originally to the rest of the Balkans from there. It only SURVIVED better in the mountain areas of the South Western Balkan during the early Middle ages. Most lowlands along the Danube were almost completely deserted by the old population, and later repopulated either by new migrants from the North and NorthEast or with highlanders who came down later.
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I would agree with that. Mountains were a refuge not a source.
 
Jovialis said:
Where is this from? You will have to provide a link for this.
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Information is from Serbian genetic portal, new subclade is BY3380 ?
It is claimed that this change was introduced by the administrator of FTDNA E-M35.

Since here are experts for E1b V13 I passed this information to see if it was true, I do not have a link because I can not enter in FTDNA E-M35 project.

For now this change is not visible on the YFull tree.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V13/

 
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