Local migrations of E-V13 subclades in the Balkans

Status
Not open for further replies.
Lenab said:
E3b is the pre historic Red Sea mix in the Balkans seen the highest in Albanian Arvanites South Serbian Montenegrins
Click to expand...

I believe that E-v13 is Balkanic, its mutation probably happen in the Danubian basin....


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
Yetos said:
I think we play a stupid game,
by naming and characterising populations with modern nationalities,

V-13 prexisted all IE in Balkans,

so any attempt to say V-13 is Greek or Serbian and especially Albanian as some claim in forum is Just stupidity,

cause V-13 did fall from the sky, in Dolmetian Alps,
neither spoke IE, and neither is Caucasian or Steppe

especially the last I have seen that V-13 is proto-Illyrian

Just for laughs.

Hrvat, stop provoking Garrick,your claim is ridiculous
Click to expand...

It's a pre historic East Mediterranean coastal genetics out of anyone in Europe it's the highest in Greek Cypriots at least according to GED match. But people associate it with E1b1b therefore that's higher in the Balkans than South Europe. That's why people might jump to conclusions oh it's a type of Southern Serb Albanian Arvanites Macedonian type ancestry of genetics. When really it's just a pre historic coastal mix, translated into many regions.

The Illyrian E1b1b Red Sea thing might be correct as my GED match score was almost 8 percent and I got a direct match to Italian Abruzzo in Single population match setting.
 
This subclade and those after it has nothing to do with arrival of the Slavs to Balkans, it is clear that subclade CTS5856 is exclusive Albanian mutation.
Click to expand...

Sorry if this is obvious to you, but why would you say that, based on what evidence? And why that subclade specifically? What about other V-13 subclades?

This in fact means that 6% of today's Serbs with R1b on the male line is Albanian origin, confirmed by founder of the "Serbian DNA Project, and further states
Click to expand...

Are you saying that because this person is close to a person in Drenica they are of Albanian origin? What if the person from Drenica came from the Serbian person is? How can you exclude this possibility?
 
Dear E-V13 brothers!

I'm a Z17107+, and BY4425+, but negative the Z38456, BY4459, Y30991, BY4461, BY4465, BY4466 mutations. Later I made a Whole Genom Sequence from YSEQ, and I sent it to YFULL. They found in my pattern 16 new, private SNP-s. (I'm the id:YF11315 in the Yfull's YTREE.)
Later I ordered two other Z17107 SNP test for two of my direct male relatives. They were +. I ordered a third Z17107 SNP test for a man, who is not my known relative since 1811, but is wearing my family name. It was Z17107+ too. I ordered him a BigY from FTDNA. This is not ready yet. Yesterday I sent a sample to YSEQ a new man who is not my relative, and not a relative to the previous person, but his family name is the same as mine.

My family name is Küzmös. My known direct Küzmös ancestors born and lived a Northeast Hungarian village, Penészlek, Szatmár county since 1770s certainly been, but probably even earlier. They were greek-catholics, and I think, they were rusins (ruthenians). According the FtDNA, my closest (and only)Y-DNA match is a man from Kentucky, his name is Senetar, but his great-grandfather is migrated from Hungary at 1880s, he was rusin too, and his original name was Szinetár. According to these, our Z17107 family originally rusin (ruthenian).

But our name is not a rusin, or hungarian family name. It is a cuman name, it means: "the desired". But the cumans were a turkish language nation in the XI-XIII. century. The 1220s mongolian invasion broke and scattered them to Hungary and Bulgaria, but those who remained and became crimean tatars, cossacks or anything else.

I really care about my ancestors, but at this time I can not find a connection between my family bloodline (E-Z17107*) and the Balkan. Neither serbian or albanian. I know, we have a common ancestor about in the time of Herodotus (800 BC) with the albanian Dibbri clan, and our croatian, bosnian, serbian and bulgarian brothers (and with my russian, ukrainian, swedish and irish brothers) But I don't know where to live. I think about 800 BC, the Z17107 father lived somewhere in the Danubian basin, or east of it, and they migrated from here. But I don't know what kind of people or tribe is belonged to.
 
kuzmosi said:
Dear E-V13 brothers!

I'm a Z17107+, and BY4425+, but negative the Z38456, BY4459, Y30991, BY4461, BY4465, BY4466 mutations. Later I made a Whole Genom Sequence from YSEQ, and I sent it to YFULL. They found in my pattern 16 new, private SNP-s. (I'm the id:YF11315 in the Yfull's YTREE.)
Later I ordered two other Z17107 SNP test for two of my direct male relatives. They were +. I ordered a third Z17107 SNP test for a man, who is not my known relative since 1811, but is wearing my family name. It was Z17107+ too. I ordered him a BigY from FTDNA. This is not ready yet. Yesterday I sent a sample to YSEQ a new man who is not my relative, and not a relative to the previous person, but his family name is the same as mine.

My family name is Küzmös. My known direct Küzmös ancestors born and lived a Northeast Hungarian village, Penészlek, Szatmár county since 1770s certainly been, but probably even earlier. They were greek-catholics, and I think, they were rusins (ruthenians). According the FtDNA, my closest (and only)Y-DNA match is a man from Kentucky, his name is Senetar, but his great-grandfather is migrated from Hungary at 1880s, he was rusin too, and his original name was Szinetár. According to these, our Z17107 family originally rusin (ruthenian).

But our name is not a rusin, or hungarian family name. It is a cuman name, it means: "the desired". But the cumans were a turkish language nation in the XI-XIII. century. The 1220s mongolian invasion broke and scattered them to Hungary and Bulgaria, but those who remained and became crimean tatars, cossacks or anything else.

I really care about my ancestors, but at this time I can not find a connection between my family bloodline (E-Z17107*) and the Balkan. Neither serbian or albanian. I know, we have a common ancestor about in the time of Herodotus (800 BC) with the albanian Dibbri clan, and our croatian, bosnian, serbian and bulgarian brothers (and with my russian, ukrainian, swedish and irish brothers) But I don't know where to live. I think about 800 BC, the Z17107 father lived somewhere in the Danubian basin, or east of it, and they migrated from here. But I don't know what kind of people or tribe is belonged to.
Click to expand...

Looking forward for some ancient E-v13 to solve this puzzle


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
kuzmosi said:
Dear E-V13 brothers!

I really care about my ancestors, but at this time I can not find a connection between my family bloodline (E-Z17107*) and the Balkan. Neither serbian or albanian. I know, we have a common ancestor about in the time of Herodotus (800 BC) with the albanian Dibbri clan, and our croatian, bosnian, serbian and bulgarian brothers (and with my russian, ukrainian, swedish and irish brothers) But I don't know where to live. I think about 800 BC, the Z17107 father lived somewhere in the Danubian basin, or east of it, and they migrated from here. But I don't know what kind of people or tribe is belonged to.
Click to expand...

Well, maybe not E-Z17107*, but other subbranches of E-Z17107 are found on the Balkans and since it is not very old, you are related.
In fact the only main V13 branch (coming directly from CTS5856) not found in the South Balkans is L540. This, together with the pre E-V13 L618 branch may point that V13 could actually come to the Balkans from the North and not from mythical Red sea, etc.
 
Can we know which one of the EV-13's six main subclade is the most significant in the modern countries? You said, the L540 is not found in the South Balkan. I read somewhere that Bulgarias main EV13 subclades is the Z5017, if I remember correctly. And which one is the most common among the albanians, serbians, greeks and others?
 
You can find detailed data about commercially tested Albanians and Serbs here.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...UT3vRseKd450hbbUvBs_j0CkU/edit#gid=1024387137
https://dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedinacne-grupe/?grp-filter=E

Unfortunately some of the administrators of the Bulgarian DNA projects were against publishing a public database in view we can breach the privacy of those who chose to be visible to other project members only.
I can only say, that V13 Bulgarians, together with Bulgarian Muslims(Pomaks) and Bulgarian Turks(with presumably local origin) are very diverse and more subbranches are found among them than Albanians and Serbs.
For example no Serbs and Albanians are found with the widely distributed S7461, while it is common among Bulgarians and Pomaks. We have Bulgarians also under Y16729 and most probably under Z16663(with 426=10), which is also not found elsewhere on the Balkans(having in mind that Pontic Greeks are just pure Anatolian and not Balkan people).
It seems the most numerous subbranches among Bulgarians are under Z5016/CTS9320 and Z5018/S2979, but as I mentioned other are also common.
However the deep SNP testing among Balkan V13 is not very popular yet and I hope more branches will be identified with time.
 
kuzmosi said:
I really care about my ancestors, but at this time I can not find a connection between my family bloodline (E-Z17107*) and the Balkan. Neither serbian or albanian. I know, we have a common ancestor about in the time of Herodotus (800 BC) with the albanian Dibbri clan, and our croatian, bosnian, serbian and bulgarian brothers (and with my russian, ukrainian, swedish and irish brothers) But I don't know where to live. I think about 800 BC, the Z17107 father lived somewhere in the Danubian basin, or east of it, and they migrated from here. But I don't know what kind of people or tribe is belonged to.
Click to expand...
If you are positive for E-Z17107 then surely your male ancestors coming from Albania or south east Europe. E-Z17107 subclade is old around three thousand years(your male ancestor) and from that time it was probably some migration towards Ukraine and Hungaria or from Bulgaria but the source is probably around Albania because subclade CTS5856 (old around four thousand years and an ancestor of E-Z17107) originate in northwest Albania, behind E-Z17107 exist subclade Z38456 which have some Albanians so very likely a source is there.
 
I am now becoming very interested in knowing my subclade. Could someone please recommend me the next step? I've tested with Living DNA, unfortunately they have no details for E-V13. Now I am considering YSEQ E1b-V13 Panel for $88. Will this provide me sufficient information or would you suggest something else? Could you also tell me, what is the procedure with YSEQ? Do I have to send a swab sample again or can they use my Living DNA test results? Sorry for asking silly questions, I just can't find any info on YSEQ page and I don't have time to dig deeper, but my curiosity is strong anyway. I appreciate your help.
 
don_joe said:
I am now becoming very interested in knowing my subclade. Could someone please recommend me the next step? I've tested with Living DNA, unfortunately they have no details for E-V13. Now I am considering YSEQ E1b-V13 Panel for $88. Will this provide me sufficient information or would you suggest something else? Could you also tell me, what is the procedure with YSEQ? Do I have to send a swab sample again or can they use my Living DNA test results? Sorry for asking silly questions, I just can't find any info on YSEQ page and I don't have time to dig deeper, but my curiosity is strong anyway. I appreciate your help.
Click to expand...


I would recommend you to enter your STR results in Nevgen calculator first (nevgen.org). This calculator can predict your SNP quite accurate, just choose option "Longer haplotypes". Based on this prediction you will see, if it is meaningful to do E1b-V13 Panel. Regarding Yseq, you need to send them a new sample. They will send you a swab kit, if you order E1b-V13 Panel.
 
eastara!

Thank you, you helped me.

hrvat22!

Thank you, but I think, the Z17107 ancestor lived in the Vucedol culture, among the proto-illyrians, and lived somewhere the Danubian Basin (today Hungary, Croatia and Serbia) Some of his sons moved to the south (Z38456) about 1200-1400 BC, but some of his sons stay and later merged into the celts and the pre-scythians (sigynnas). Maybe.

don joe!

So far I ordered from the ancestrybyDNA (USA), the Genographic Project, FtDNA and the YSEQ. YSEQ is the quickest and most accurate one. All of my 8 great-great garndfathers bloodline tested by YSEQ. I oredere an YSEQ alpha, and later the recommended panel. You will need to send a new sample to Berlin, but they look for your SNP-s as precisely as possible.

An example: I sent my own sample 4 different institute:

ancestrybyDNA told: I'm E1b1b
Genographic Project told: I'm: E-L542
FtDNA told: I'm: E-CTS9320
YSEQ told: I'm E-Z17107+ but negative for all known subclades
 
kuzmosi said:
eastara!

Thank you, you helped me.

hrvat22!

Thank you, but I think, the Z17107 ancestor lived in the Vucedol culture, among the proto-illyrians, and lived somewhere the Danubian Basin (today Hungary, Croatia and Serbia) Some of his sons moved to the south (Z38456) about 1200-1400 BC, but some of his sons stay and later merged into the celts and the pre-scythians (sigynnas). Maybe.

don joe!

So far I ordered from the ancestrybyDNA (USA), the Genographic Project, FtDNA and the YSEQ. YSEQ is the quickest and most accurate one. All of my 8 great-great garndfathers bloodline tested by YSEQ. I oredere an YSEQ alpha, and later the recommended panel. You will need to send a new sample to Berlin, but they look for your SNP-s as precisely as possible.

An example: I sent my own sample 4 different institute:

ancestrybyDNA told: I'm E1b1b
Genographic Project told: I'm: E-L542
FtDNA told: I'm: E-CTS9320
YSEQ told: I'm E-Z17107+ but negative for all known subclades
Click to expand...


Thank you kuzmosi for your detailed answer. Just to be sure, do you recommend going directly for YSEQ Panel? Could you also give me a few links where I can analyse my results afterwards or where I can prepare myself before? Much appreciated.
 
don_joe said:
Thank you kuzmosi for your detailed answer. Just to be sure, do you recommend going directly for YSEQ Panel? Could you also give me a few links where I can analyse my results afterwards or where I can prepare myself before? Much appreciated.
Click to expand...

If you know that you are V13, and would like to find the "terminal" subclade/SNP, I would go straight for the YSEQ E1b-V13 Panel. And yes, you would have to send a sample kit to their lab in Berlin, which is included when you buy any of their first tests: https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=2486
 
kuzmosi said:
hrvat22!Thank you, but I think, the Z17107 ancestor lived in the Vucedol culture, among the proto-illyrians, and lived somewhere the Danubian Basin (today Hungary, Croatia and Serbia) Some of his sons moved to the south (Z38456) about 1200-1400 BC, but some of his sons stay and later merged into the celts and the pre-scythians (sigynnas). Maybe.
Click to expand...
First we have to go from beginning, for now we know that subclade CTS5856 or great ancestor of Z17107 has a source in northwestern Albania and northeastern Montenegro. Considering that descendant subclade Z38456 (son of Z17107) has a few Albanians in Albania it can be assumed that the father (Z17107) and the son (Z38456) live in the same area ie. three thousand years ago. For this reason, I believe migration moves from there. If you have evidence for your claim, attach it. However if you are right then this Albanians with subclades Z38456 come from Vucedol three thousand years ago to the hills of Albania.For now I have data of ancient R1b, I2a2 in Vucedol, if you have other data tell me. http://bellbeakerblogger.blogspot.hr/2015/06/2-vucedol-period-are-r1b.htmlhttps://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/31376-new-ancient-DNA-from-Vucedol-and-others
 
Trojet said:
If you know that you are V13, and would like to find the "terminal" subclade/SNP, I would go straight for the YSEQ E1b-V13 Panel. And yes, you would have to send a sample kit to their lab in Berlin, which is included when you buy any of their first tests: https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=2486
Click to expand...

Great, thanks Trojet. Do you have any links with more details about E-V13 subclades to recommend? I would like to be better informed, to know what to expect or what the interpretations of the results could be.
 
hrvat22 said:
First we have to go from beginning, for now we know that subclade CTS5856 or great ancestor of Z17107 has a source in northwestern Albania and northeastern Montenegro.
Click to expand...

How do we know that?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

This thread has been viewed 43060 times.

Back
Top