What on earth has happened to anthrogenica?

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Don't misconstrue what she said, they are racist against italians; particularly from the south. At least the people in that thread are.

I read Anthrogencia a lot. I can't pinpoint any racism against Italians. I wouldn't doubt some of the posters who care more about classifying or race topics are.

Also, I don't see anything particularly wrong with that thread. It's a result of Anthrogencia is begging to attract less affluent people who are more interested in race stuff than hard core archaeology and genetics. And like I said there's nothing particularly wrong with it. It gets wrong when people get racist or when people (moderators at Anthrogencia) censor any discussion about race.

Racial discussions will usually come from the white American perspective in which everything non-NW European is exotic and even inferior. So, yeah that's a problem. But not all racial discussions are that way.
 
American and Western European fixation about race comes from superiority complex, after all - extreme racism was born in Western Europe.

I would agree there is a Western European superiority complex ingrained in America. It's easy to imagine how it came about. After 1600, western Europeans dominated the world including America and were indeed in many ways "superior." Western European had always included Spain and Italy but they were later taken out of the category when Britain, America, and Germany became the biggest powers.

I think there's a lot of truth to America's concept of western culture, western Europe, and whiteness but there's some inaccuracies. Like I don't know how accurate the "Northwest European" genetic category is. Germanic speaking English, Germans, and Norse definitky have common ancestry. But the Swedes for example probably have as much in common with Poles as they do with Irish.

Poland didn't hold any significant colonies and wasn't part of the slavery deal. Blacks were used as slaves by West Europeans and Americans and it should be their burden to make it square to them.

Before 1970 Poles would have taken this as an insult. Anyone with the power took part in the colonial and slavery game. You know Poland would have done it if they could.

I don't support colonialism or slavery. I'm a nice guy but it's a doggy dog world. Unless you want your country to be dirt, you have to miss treat people of other nations.

Also, while we should condemn past colonialism we shouldn't feel guilty because our countries did well. When I say condemn I mean it. We literally did replace Native Americans, we literally did put millions of Africans through hell.
 
Are you all surprised? Americans have a fixation about race and "whiteness".

How many Americans do you know? I know tons, so I know that's false as a general statement goes. Aside from vocal SJW's at liberal arts college, it's not a topic of conversation or interest among most Americans.
 
This may sound offensive, but isn't almost every genetics thread in Eupedia full of posters discussing history and fantasy origins and from what I've seen the ones who start the war are never banned and continue to be regular members. This is why me and definitely many other members are just surfing through Eupedia with the fear of getting infractions if you get involved in anything. This is definitely not helping Maciamo business-wise, despite having quite a reputable website which could definitely double or triple its viewings and clicks if the moderators were to be less tyrannical. Just my 2 cents by the way, although I do expect a ban after this lol
 
Actually, i'm enjoying a lot of Anthrogenica users topics, a lot of knowledgeable people on it.
 
It appears that it has escaped the notice of some posters that when the moderators finally read the thread they shut it down.

I also just love it that the northern Italian poster who lists his nationality as "Alpinoid" doesn't see any anti-Southern Italian rhetoric and skewed analysis by Sikeliot, Claudio, and Tz85 on that site. :) You just can't make this stuff up.

As for those who find only "fantasy" here, I personally post new threads on genetics almost every other day, threads on archaeology as well, but those don't attract the attention that "fantasy" threads do. In fact, the ones complaining about that are just upset that their particular fantasy has competition. Again, you almost couldn't make this stuff up.

What is happening in general in the hobbyist genetics world is that now that we have ancient dna people are not going to spend oceans of "print" on speculating, when their speculations can so soon and so completely be refuted by ancient dna. That's why at sites like anthrogenica you go through whole stretches like at present where only two to three worthwhile posts appear in any given day. There's also the fact that a lot of the basic parameters have already been established by ancient dna, especially for those who want to talk Indo-Europeans all the time. It's just filling in the gaps from now on. That's just the way it is.

To be clear, there are a lot of knowledgeable posters on anthrogenica. The problem is that since the future of racist sites is now in jeopardy, those people are migrating and trying to find other "homes", and the respectable posters probably don't notice the questionable posts on the less genetics and archaeology oriented parts of the site. I just noticed this one by accident. Goodness knows how many others there have been.

Let me be clear about something else: posters who follow the rules, stay civil, and don't ***** or insult other nationalities and groups will have no problems here and have not had any problems here. That doesn't mean that if you present nonsense claims or evidence you won't be called on it, because you will. That's a different issue.
 
Fire haired, I don't get your concept. You first condemn slavery and colonialism, but then you support treating other ethnicities unfairly in order to advance one's own nation. Why? If your business is desparate for an engineer and you had a choice between the Iranian-American who graduated from Princeton and an English-German American who barely made it through an institution with a 50 percent attrition rate with a 2.4 GPA, who would you choose?
And Sile, I have absolutely no idea why you were accusing Jovialis of lying and being agenda driven, that was completely unfair and cruel. He has every reason to feel offended by the anti south Italian/Sicilian trash that sikeliot posts on there.
 
And anyone who disagrees with the idea of anthrogenica being flooded with anti Sicilian posts has either never read anything from "Professor" Sikeliot or blindly sees him as a reliable source of Sicilian genetics.
 
It appears that it has escaped the notice of some posters that when the moderators finally read the thread they shut it down.
It might have escaped your notice that people here are banned for trivial reasons.

As for those who find only "fantasy" here, I personally post new threads on genetics almost every other day, threads on archaeology as well, but those don't attract the attention that "fantasy" threads do. In fact, the ones complaining about that are just upset that their particular fantasy has competition. Again, you almost couldn't make this stuff up.
I check almost all of them and it's either the case of your post being the only one in the thread or you get a handful of "Wow interesting" posts.

To be clear, there are a lot of knowledgeable posters on anthrogenica. The problem is that since the future of racist sites is now in jeopardy, those people are migrating and trying to find other "homes", and the respectable posters probably don't notice the questionable posts on the less genetics and archaeology oriented parts of the site. I just noticed this one by accident. Goodness knows how many others there have been.
Exactly what I though it's happening with Eupedia. I joined because I very often read posts by Maciamo, Taranis, sparkey, LeBrok, MarkoZ, Moesan, Tomenable (some bias but still), bicicleur, Alan, and maybe I'm missing some other respectable posters in here.

Let me be clear about something else: posters who follow the rules, stay civil, and don't ***** or insult other nationalities and groups will have no problems here and have not had any problems here. That doesn't mean that if you present nonsense claims or evidence you won't be called on it, because you will. That's a different issue.
I wish I could mention 3-4 names but knowing how things go down here I'll refrain but I'm also talking of an Alpinoid, an Ancient Greek, and a Yugoslavian that have always fight with Albanians who although are not very knowledgeable on the matter, currently do happen to be on the winning/lucky side as recent data suggests. Yet its the Albanians that get banned, even for correcting your Italian. Sorry but its the truth.
 
And anyone who disagrees with the idea of anthrogenica being flooded with anti Sicilian posts has either never read anything from "Professor" Sikeliot or blindly sees him as a reliable source of Sicilian genetics.
I'm not sure if flooded is the right word as I haven't experienced this dramatic anti-Sicilian/South Italian propaganda in there.

Sicily and South Italy do indeed share many genetic similarities with the Eastern Mediterranean countries but what always bugged me is the fact that how come people believe the Sicilians are dark because of this link. I don't have actual statistics but I've been to both Sicily and the Levant and there's no way the Lebanese, Syrians, or Palestinians contributed to that as the percentage of light features is way too high for the area. I was even shocked as one would expect that after hundreds of years of intermixing the brown eyes would completely dominate for example.
 
What's this non-sequitur of brown eyes, and phenotype of Sicilians? Obviously, you don't need to be from the eastern Mediterranean to have brown eyes.

Here’s ancient DNA results from a Sicilian/South Italian poster:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...-Results/page7?p=521471&viewfull=1#post521471

This doesn’t look anything like the garbage that Tz85 was saying on that thread. 50+ NA and Levant is Total b.s., what does that even mean?

Also, don’t purport that those people were banned for trivial reasons. You sound like a sock-puppet account for someone that was rightfully banned. Are you telling me, you have an account here for several years, and your only posts are these aspersions?

@davef

It takes a lot more for me to be offend. But I'm certainly offended by the lack of mental gymnastics by some posters that participate in these discussions. Thankfully, the rude, strident, and belligerent ones eventually get the hammer dropped on them, and are booted out.

Edit: I also think it's funny that in spite of that thread, National Geographic gives me "100% european". Though I'm sure other tests may put me at different rates.
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And anyone who disagrees with the idea of anthrogenica being flooded with anti Sicilian posts has either never read anything from "Professor" Sikeliot or blindly sees him as a reliable source of Sicilian genetics.

As someone who has been banned here twice for mentioning similar rhetoric as Sikeliot being pan Mediterraneanism and who also posts on Anthrogenica and is a friend of Sikeilot, I don't find that he is racist and I am half Sicilian, how can he be racist to Sicilians when he is 3/8ths Sicilian? He can't be the most reliable source since he is not a scientist conducting dna testing or is a project admin, but he does seem to know quite a lot when it comes to autosomal, before he posts results of people he checks to see if they are full Sicilian or Southern Italian whatever be the case and compares it to the other results that he has seen in the past and sees if it makes sense, how do I know this? Because he and I are regularly in contact. The true enemy and racists against Southern Italians and other Southern Europeans are these garbage Nordicists, who post vile things just take a look at Apricity there is a abundance of them, truly vile people.

As to the main topic of the thread, I am sure the poster who started the thread is one of those Nordicists, the owner and the admins don't stand for that sort of speech as no one should, the reason why it probably lasted longer than it should of is because it went unnoticed.
 
Jesus, I expressed my opinion that happens to be the same as everyone here, that of Sicilians not being MENA or whatever Nordicists claim, and I already got 4 negative ratings in my posts. Very friendly indeed.

If you check my posts on Anthrogenica and you'll see at least 10 people clicking the Thanks button, replying to your questions, send PM with extra info.

So much for Anthrogenica being a nest of idiots, racists, and mentally unstable people.

This thread simply got my attention as I for a moment started to wonder if I should refer to the users there less, but then I understood its just for some potentially anti-Sicilian members there.

Respect to all and to Sicilians and their amazing culture and country (2nd best in my list after Andalucia). I won't be bothering anyone anymore on this topic so gather your negative ratings and report my offensive posts.
 
As someone who has been banned here twice for mentioning similar rhetoric as Sikeliot being pan Mediterraneanism and who also posts on Anthrogenica and is a friend of Sikeilot, I don't find that he is racist and I am half Sicilian, how can he be racist to Sicilians when he is 3/8ths Sicilian? He can't be the most reliable source since he is not a scientist conducting dna testing or is a project admin, but he does seem to know quite a lot when it comes to autosomal, before he posts results of people he checks to see if they are full Sicilian or Southern Italian whatever be the case and compares it to the other results that he has seen in the past and sees if it makes sense, how do I know this? Because he and I are regularly in contact. The true enemy and racists against Southern Italians and other Southern Europeans are these garbage Nordicists, who post vile things just take a look at Apricity there is a abundance of them, truly vile people.

As to the main topic of the thread, I am sure the poster who started the thread is one of those Nordicists, the owner and the admins don't stand for that sort of speech as no one should, the reason why it probably lasted longer than it should of is because it went unnoticed.

You are aware that Sikeliot is a moderator at theapricity, aren't you? Or did that escape your attention? Never had any conversations about that? You are also aware that he used to publish anti-Italian rhetoric by the reams as Clementina and Portuguese Princess there, are you not, and as Oreo Cookie here? I mean, as you're such good friends.

Give it up. You convince no one. He's notorious all over the internet as the ***** with the thousand socks, often having conversations between his socks. It would be hysterically funny if it weren't so pathetic and sad. If you knew anything about him you'd know that he has tremendous problems with his Sicilian father because he didn't accept his homosexuality and because he disparaged the African in his mother's island Portuguese ancestry. Strange that he wrote me post after post about that when I was at 23andme but he doesn't confide in you about that.

I have joked in the past that all his output could be labeled "The I Hate My Father" opus. Whether or not that is mentally healthy is an entirely separate issue. Also, it's incredibly naive of you to think that some people can't hate their minority ancestry.They can indeed, although it is indeed sick. Just think about the part Jews who have been rabid anti-Semites, or part black Southerners who are racists. As a matter of fact he once relayed to me that he resented his father for bequeathing to him his "East Med" looks, for which he was supposedly bullied. Actually, if the pictures he showed me are legit he's a good looking guy, and unless he grew up in the Ozarks, which he didn't, they most certainly would not have gotten him bullied. Growing up in Rhode Island as he did, the sometimes visibly African admixed people from the Azores or Cape Verde would be infinitely more likely to be subjected to that kind of behavior.

As for what he knows about genetics, particularly Italian genetics, he learned most of it from me at 23andme, but of course he then twisted it for his own bizarre reasons.

You can also obfuscate as much as you want, but you were never banned here for your genetics based posts. You were banned for breaking the rules. Since you seem to be confused about that, perhaps you should review them.
 
As someone who has been banned here twice for mentioning similar rhetoric as Sikeliot being pan Mediterraneanism and who also posts on Anthrogenica and is a friend of Sikeilot, I don't find that he is racist and I am half Sicilian, how can he be racist to Sicilians when he is 3/8ths Sicilian?
Didn't sikeliot say he was 1/2 Sicilian? If he's 3/8 Sicilian, what's the other 1/8?
 
It seems you've become a bit more nuanced in some of your perspectives and I appreciate this--it's a sign of greater, more balanced intelligence. But in life there is always a quibble to be had...

I'm a nice guy but it's a doggy dog world. Unless you want your country to be dirt, you have to miss treat people of other nations.

This is overly simplistic, egregiously cynical, needlessly nihilistic and patently untrue. And I say this as a hardcore INTJ who instinctively tends more towards tribalism at best, misanthropy at worst, and the type of cold rational logic usually restricted to aspies and psychopaths. lol

For me, being fair, just, ecumenical, humanitarian, cooperative, and compassionate has nothing to do with pesky feelings or being “good” in some morally masturbatory religious sense; it’s all based on strategy and practicality, namely to promote peace, harmony and good will in order to avoid mutually assured destruction (which, again, innately, I sometimes think might be for the best because the cretinous and peonic masses don’t deserve this magnificent planet but at the same time, I’m more curious than nihilistic and would like to see how this relatively recent human experiment works out, at least while I’m still around lol).

Honestly, I (cognitively understand and recognize sadness, compassion and pity rather well but) emotively feel little to nothing when I give to the homeless, donate time and money to charities/non-profits, and endorse policies bent on “leveling the scales”; emotionally, I don’t relate to the “bleeding hearts” of the world; I simply see these gestures as necessary evils of sorts. Most humans respond in kind to good will, which only engenders more good will and most importantly, peace, balance and stability. If the police respect the people, the people will respect, assist and the not resist the police. If the corporations respect the people, the people will work harder for the corporations and increase productivity. If an occupying military doesn’t wantonly murder, rape and pillage the occupied, there will be less bloody retaliation and generations long vendettas that only perpetuate more paranoia/reality based bloodshed. IT’S SO SIMPLE. Giving into base, primitive instincts only acts as a devolving agent for humanity. I am proof positive that one can be inclined towards a certain fascistic, starkly right leaning worldview and ideology but resist them on the practical grounds of harmony (which is the only viable option once the alluringly pragmatic notions of mass, systematic extermination and annihilation are taken off the table)—as you can see, I am, in execution, a liberal (though idealistically, a centrist) but there is no "bleeding heart" attached.

Throughout history, there were always progressive voices far ahead of their times who decried the worst evils, systems and institutions of their day, while the primitive, imbecilic masses were slow to catch up—that being the case, I get how the atrocities and injustices that happened, happened, and to a very limited degree, can tolerate the “they lived in different times” narratives. But I’m a firm believer in “when you know better, do better.” And any logical, thinking person (that wants to live in relative peace) should be able to look at history, notice some pretty glaring patterns, and conclude that there are better ways to establish a prosperous, successful, more stable world order that don’t include unbridled sociopathy and callousness.
 
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IT’S SO SIMPLE. Giving into base, primitive instincts only acts as a devolving agent for humanity. I am proof positive that one can be inclined towards a certain fascistic, starkly right leaning worldview and ideology but resist them on the practical grounds of harmony (which is the only viable option once the alluringly pragmatic notion of mass, systematic extermination and annihilation are taken off the table)—as you can see, I am, in execution, a liberal (though idealistically, a centrist) but there is no "bleeding heart" attached.
Thanks for opening. I did a similar journey myself, with starting point being mildly conservative and religious person. That's by nurture, and later by means of understanding, becoming pragmatic liberal.

Throughout history, there were always progressive voices far ahead of their times who decried the worst evils, systems and institutions of their day, while the primitive, imbecilic masses were slow to catch up—that being the case, I get how the atrocities and injustices that happened, happened and to a very limited degree, can tolerate the “they were different times” narratives. But I’m a firm believer in “when you know better, do better.” And any logical, thinking person (that wants to live in relative peace) should be able to look at history, notice some pretty glaring patterns, and conclude that there are better ways to establish a prosperous, successful, more stable world order that doesn’t include unbridled sociopathy and callousness.
Ah, if we could just find the way to explained this to roughly 6 billion people who still live with their heads deep in their tribal arses. Might need to wait for generation of smart designer babies coming off the production line. ;)
 
Thanks for opening. I did a similar journey myself, with starting point being mildly conservative and religious person. That's by nurture, and later by means of understanding, becoming pragmatic liberal.

Thank you as well, Lebrok! And I like that you used the word "opening" because that's precisely what the journey entails: "opening" up one's self to new ideas, new belief systems, new environments, new people, new ways of doing things--there are always newer and greater truths to be found!

I know fully well how easy and comfortable it is to remain safely inside a bubble where everything is predetermined, the probabilities and risks have been tabulated, factored and mitigated, and our minds firmly made up on whatever it is we're too apathetic about, afraid of or lazy to confront head on with an open mind. But praise be to Odin/Yahweh/Buddha/Allah/the right genetics (lol) for the gift of curiosity and the desire/ability to question and ask "why?" This is why I always encourage my fellow anti-social internet introverts that tend to favor these types of message boards to actively step out beyond their safety nets, especially by way of travel and varying degrees of (sometimes forced) social immersion. Even those of us who are prone to confirmation bias can be shocked and amazed at the degree to which our preconceived notions can be altered, contextualized or completely turned on their heads just by virtue of confronting something we thought we knew, but in actuality, didn't know in the full sense;it doesn't matter how many times you see a "bad" place and its citizens referenced in the news, it's impossible to form a more complete, truer picture of them unless you encounter them intimately. For some of us, that type of social proximity is very difficult to do but it's crucial if there is ever to be any sustainable attempt at peace, tolerance and interconnectedness (which is inevitable though people try to fight it).
 
It seems you've become a bit more nuanced in some of your perspectives and I appreciate this--it's a sign of greater, more balanced intelligence. But in life there is always a quibble to be had...


Thanks I appreciate that.






I'm a nice guy but it's a doggy dog world. Unless you want your country to be dirt, you have to miss treat people of other nations.
This is overly simplistic, egregiously cynical, needlessly nihilistic and patently untrue. And I say this as a hardcore INTJ who instinctively tends more towards tribalism at best, misanthropy at worst, and the type of cold rational logic usually restricted to aspies and psychopaths. lol


It isn't always true but it often is. Where would the USA be if it didn't take land from Native Americans (The Atlantic seaboard)? What would have happened to the Spanish empire if it didn't have millions of Black slaves (nowhere. It wouldn't be able to finance itself)?


For me, being fair..........has nothing to do with pesky feelings or being “good” in some morally masturbatory religious sense; it’s all based on strategy and practicality....... in order to avoid mutually assured destruction


It doesn't matter if you're liberal who thinks religion was invented by an evil white man with a beard in order to imprison minds, you're weird if you don't have emotional feeling towards doing good things or no sense of morality. Morality isn’t culturally relative to Abrahamic religion. I think liberals have called a lot of things culturally relative to Abrahmanic religions which are actually universals. Some very deep thinking liberals like yourself have ditched those things because you think they’re culturally relative (and reinforce inequality or something like that).


Tell me, what's the point of helping people, if you don't have emotional feelings towards other humans? Why do people matter if you don’t have feelings for them? You care for them because of "strategy and practicality"? Doubt it.


(which, again, innately, I sometimes think might be for the best because the cretinous and peonic masses don’t deserve this magnificent planet. .
Yeah……..and I’m the cold hearted one for saying nations need to hurt other nations to succeed. This is sick dude.
but at the same time, I’m more curious than nihilistic and would like to see how this relatively recent human experiment works out, at least while I’m still around lol). .
You have clearly manufactured this nihilistic, deep thinking persona. It’s not who you are, it’s who you wish you were. Like how you decided to ditch morality, you decided to be nihilistic.
One of the most dangerous things to western civilization is people who think like you. People who put far left wing, communist, nihilistic philosophies over “primitive” moral principles.
Tell me, how did the Soviet Union work out? It did away with evil religion, tribalism (put many nations under one roof), and class inequality? Sounds like your type of country.


If the police respect the people, the people will respect, assist and the not resist the police. If the corporations respect the people, the people will work harder for the corporations and increase productivity. If an occupying military doesn’t wantonly murder, rape and pillage the occupied, there will be less bloody retaliation and generations long vendettas that only perpetuate more paranoia/reality based bloodshed.
It isn’t that simple Wanderlust. For the most part Americans do respect the police. And even if Police were never corrupt or abusive, there’d still be people who hate them.




If IT’S SO SIMPLE. Giving into base, primitive instincts only acts as a devolving agent for humanity. I am proof positive that one can be inclined towards a certain fascistic, starkly right leaning worldview and ideology but resist them on the practical grounds of harmony
Ok, good. Then we agree at some level. Harmony is what just about everyone wants. But I’m sure we have different opinions on how it can be achieved.
as you can see, I am, in execution, a liberal (though idealistically, a centrist) but there is no "bleeding heart" attached.
I’m dead serious, hopefully you know if an ideology ever calls for violence against ignorant minds who can’t understand its truth, ditch that ideology.
 
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