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Thread: What on earth has happened to anthrogenica?

  1. #51
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    1 members found this post helpful.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    I don't believe he is the natural born psychopath-type he says he is. Yes, maybe he has some of the characteristics he claims he has. However, I think most of it is from a miss understood reflections he makes on himself.



    Lebrok, this literally sounds like North Korea style propaganda. Even if true it wouldn't be "amazing and inspiring."



    Like I said, he doesn't always follow what the facts say. I've seen with my own eyes Wanderlust deny or twist the truth to fit a narrative he likes. He's nothing more than the typical educated yet extremely radicle leftist. The type of old communist white person who helps lead Black Lives Matter protests and throws out conservative speakers at colleges. That's the type of person he comes off as. Much more creepy than inspiring.
    I know you are opinionated young man who loves to have his say, but if it comes to understanding people, their character, personality and predispositions, you should listen and trust us, the experienced educated smart thinkers. ;)
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Look what I found on anthrogenica:

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...tern-Component

    More anti-Sicilian garbage.

    Can someone grant me a mod badge for at least a day over there? ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Look what I found on anthrogenica:

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...tern-Component

    More anti-Sicilian garbage.

    Can someone grant me a mod badge for at least a day over there? ;)
    Sikeliot aka Portuguese Princess and his many sockpuppets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    Sikeliot aka Portuguese Princess and his many sockpuppets.
    ^^^^^ Bingo

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    I must say, in all our interactions, there always comes a point in the dialogue where a rather uneducated, uncultivated, imperceptive, nearsighted, lowbred response of yours begs an analytical thrashing of gargantuan proportions and in that moment, I become vexed, dispirited, bored, prone to distraction and inevitably I remove from my immediate consciousness the interaction altogether. I want to be unmistakably clear that my lack of replies is never a matter of me having been outwitted or bested, and especially by the likes of you, but alternately, is a result of my utter dismay, disinterest and contempt at your overall lack of competency about which you speak. Of the many flaws I possess, an inability to suffer mental rigidity, intellectual cloddishness and ineptitude reigns supreme.

    However, there are occasions of such absurdity where even I’d find myself derelict as a scholar and layman with fully functioning thinking faculties if I didn’t indulge, challenge and/or debunk some of these so-called “thoughts” and other incoherent drivel you intend to pass off as “logic.” And so here we are….

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    I was referring only to the US and the Spanish empire not the people they've oppressed. The question is, where would the US and Spanish empire be (have been) if they never oppressed people?
    Sigh. My original comment/response still stands and furthermore, I tire of repeating myself:

    Perhaps things would have been better FOR EVERYONE, and particularly the marginalized and oppressed, if there never was a USA or Spanish Empire. Ever stop to think about that? Perhaps if there had been an equitable and mutually beneficial TRADE of IDEAS and RESOURCES/non-human commodities with the Native Americans and with Africans (who occupied a continent with resources that would’ve arguably made them the richest on the planet), the USA as we know it, with racial/ethnic brutality, inequality and injustice being the beginning of our foundation and most persistent illness, would not exist! Maybe something better and far more egalitarian would have come to fruition!”
    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    No, that would have never worked. The Spanish empire would have gained its territory or wealth if it attempted to have a mutually beneficial relationship with natives and Africans. It's a whole lot easier to get something by taking it and forcing the people to mine it than to get it in a trade agreement. Also, Spain would have not been able to get nearly as much land in America if they didn't forcefully take it.
    …………
    If the USA never took land from Native Americans it would literally still be stuck on the Atlantic seaboard. Mexico probably would have take the land from natives that the US didn't. And the US wouldn't have ever gotten access to resources it needed to be a big economic player in the world.
    My original point stands, a nation can’t succeed by being nice to other countries. I wish that weren’t true.
    First, I already acknowledged the basic yet flawless logic of “war/conquest capitalism (acquiring maximal wealth and resources via the unmitigated use of power, force, dominance and oppression)” and so I’m not debating its utility, in and of itself. Second, I’m actively challenging your assertion that it’s the only means by which a nation or country can or should achieve “success” or in your exact words, “not be dirt.”

    The notion that war/colonialist/imperialist driven empires are somehow necessary, in and of themselves, for peoples, civilizations and humanity in general to flourish and advance is a fallacy. For god’s sake, just because a certain way of doing business was the preferred and to varying degrees a rather effective method during major civilizational shifts and upheavals in human history, does not mean that it was the best and only method; and by best, I mean the most logical, efficient, productive or moral.

    Yes, the societal and economic pressures associated with building a vast war/conquest machine indirectly helped to rapidly spur on major developments in science and technology, for example. However, conquest/colonialism/imperialism is not necessary for or even crucial to this advancement; the fact of the matter is that the technology developed in times of war conquest and empire expansion would still be possible to develop outside of them. Perhaps there just may have been a slower, more gradual progression (like the civilizations of many pre-literate, pre-colonial peoples) which could’ve come with various benefits—for example, implosions in the population size of urban centers and an inadequate means to handle them (regarding housing, sanitation, plague, etc…) proved to be the bane of several major empires.

    True and momentous
    advancements in various civilizations occurred when groups of people came together and formed a common language and communication system, a system for governing, agriculture, etc. Many times, war/conquest machines on vast scales were created for the sake of GREED and SELF-INTEREST (in respects to the New World, gold, sugar and slaves were not essential to any one group’s innate survival, but were old/first world “luxuries”) and taking resources from others while immediately giving very little, besides slaughter and subjugation, in return. Ponder for a moment what might have happened if Hernán Cortés and Francisco Pizarro had, on behalf of the Spanish crown, offered to invest millions in European styled and led infrastructure projects to aid or “advance” the Aztec Empire and Incan Empire in return for their resources, skills, and technologies? How many wasted billions of dollars (in today’s money) spent developing elaborate war machines/efforts could have been better used to build literal and figurative bridges that would’ve enriched both parties greatly and equitably/more evenly, but over a longer, more gradual haul of time?

    Perhaps the Aztecs and Incas could’ve sold lands to Spain in the same way that lands were bought and sold a few centuries later throughout the Americas between various European parties. But a significant issue at the heart of this quandry lay in the fact that colonialist/imperialist ideologies in the vein of racialist pseudoscience and religious backed notions of “godless savages” in need of civilization’s saving graces, immerged, in large part, to excuse and encourage European conquests and empire expansion. It was one thing to trade between European “equals” but the Indigenous peoples were supposed heathens and barbarians below reasoning and bargaining with (the same “savages” with amazing pyramids and monuments and their own calendars and effective agricultural systems). How convenient.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    Would it be better if the USA and therefore its racism never existed? Definitely, definitely not. All goods have bad in them.

    FALLACY ALERT
    --not all “bads” or “goods” are created equally and they sure as hell don’t always nullify or cancel each other out. The amount of positive benefits versus negative consequences and repercussions can be measured and quantified to varying degrees. As just a small reminder of the extent of the “bad,” millions and millions of Indigenous Americans were sickened, slaughtered and displaced and millions of black Africans were worked to death, raped, and/or lynched and denied certain “inalienable rights” over a period of centuries. To mitigate those atrocities as just “the cost of doing business” is fantastically sociopathic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    Anyways, I’ll give you my defintion racism in America because I think there are exaggerations and misconceptions of it. SLavery and legal racism only existed in the southern states. In the north, yes people were racist, but little racism was committed because there was hardly anyone to be racist towards. The north never became racially-diverse until the migration of Blacks from the South in the early 1900s. Then Blacks faced real discrimination and a poor start in life due to their past, however they faced little legal discrimination.…Racism in America has rarely come in the form of violence and laws. After slavery (which wasn't started because of racism but did make Blacks a slavery class), racism has mostly come in the form of feelings and unspoken social ranking. Blacks have been looked down on, been victim of prejudice, name-calling, and the like. And Blacks have in an unspoken way formed a lower class which isn't supposed to be affluent.When you look at racism from that perspective you see unlike what some claim America wasn’t built on racism.
    Herregud, the sheer IGNORANCE displayed here astounds and confounds me. This is why it is so intellectually draining to debate people who know little to nothing about something they consistently feel so inclined to give their unsupported and unsubstantiated opinions about (and usually in the tattered guise of facts). I have no more time and energy to waste debunking your easily destroyed, counterfactual, retellings of history and therefore I’ll let those better suited than the both of us bring you up to date. Sad.

    1.) So “slavery and legal racism only existed in the Southern States,” huh? Ugh. Thank Princeton Historian Nell Painter Irvin via her book “Creating Black Americans: African-American History and Its Meanings, 1619 to the Present” for this brief and truncated history lesson of the injustices committed against Black Americans in the Northern US:

    “In the northeastern states, blacks faced discrimination in many forms. Segregation was rampant, especially in Philadelphia, where African Americans were excluded from concert halls, public transportation, schools, churches, orphanages, and other places. Blacks were also forced out of the skilled professions in which they had been working. And soon after the turn of the century, African American men began to lose the right to vote -- a right that many states had granted following the Revolutionary War. Simultaneously, voting rights were being expanded for whites. New Jersey took the black vote away in 1807; in 1818, Connecticut took it away from black men who had not voted previously; in 1821, New York took away property requirements for white men to vote, but kept them for blacks. This meant that only a tiny percentage of black men could vote in that state. In 1838, Pennsylvania took the vote away entirely. The only states in which black men never lost the right to vote were Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont and Massachusetts.The situation in what was then the northwest region of the country was even worse. In Ohio, the state constitution of 1802 deprived blacks of the right to vote, to hold public office, and to testify against whites in court. Over the next five years, more restrictions were placed on African Americans. They could not live in Ohio without a certificate proving their free status, they had to post a $500 bond "to pay for their support in case of want," and they were prohibited from joining the state militia. In 1831 blacks were excluded from serving on juries and were not allowed admittance to state poorhouses, insane asylums, and other institutions. Fortunately, some of these laws were not stringently enforced, or it would have been virtually impossible for any African American to emigrate to Ohio.

    In Illinois there were severe restrictions on free blacks entering the state, and Indiana barred them altogether. Michigan, Iowa, and Wisconsin were no friendlier. Because of this, the black populations of the northwestern states never exceeded 1 percent.

    African Americans also faced violence at the hands of white northerners. Individual cases of assault and murder occured throughout the North, as did daily insults and harassment. Between 1820 and 1850, Northern blacks also became the frequent targets of mob violence. Whites looted, tore down, and burned black homes, churches, schools, and meeting halls. They stoned, beat, and sometimes murdered blacks. Philadelphia was the site of the worst and most frequent mob violence. City officials there generally refused to protect African Americans from white mobs and blamed blacks for inciting the violence with their "uppity" behavior.”
    2.) So “Racism in America has rarely come in the form of violence and laws,” huh? You really should be embarrassed and ashamed at the level of wanton ignorance you have displayed here. I weep for whatever purported institution of higher learning you attend. You are too lazy to even use GOOGLE before you further destroy your credibility and intellectual honesty with such easily debunked claims. FOR SHAME. If you don’t care enough to do the most rudimentary research and investigating, DON’T SPEAK, DON’T COMMENT—it really is so simple. Stop embarrassing yourself. Please. The 2nd hand shame I feel for you is…overwhelming.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...mples_by_state
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_...United_States)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-m..._United_States

    3.) These links here just contain pertinent EMPIRICAL DATA and FACTS concerning the degree to which systemic and institutional racism actually harm and hinder Black Americans. Merry Christmas, you can never say I didn’t try to expand your consciousness:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/04/upshot/the-measuring-sticks-of-racial-bias-.html?_r=0
    https://psmag.com/inequality-in-blac...6f9#.nx08gjz94
    http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/...inorities.aspx
    http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2016/...-worlds-apart/
    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...eat-recession/
    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...ations/361631/

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    Would the Natives have made something more wealthy, more advanced, more beneficial to the world? Definitely not.
    Huh? Why not? Ugh, cynically and willfully ignorant at worst and flat out racist at best. This is why you need to f-ing READ, and READ a lot, before you make such ridiculously untrue and intellectually suspect assertions. Or better yet, just stick to the technical aspects of population genetics. History and social anthropology don’t seem to be your thing.

    If you actually want to better yourself and learn something (I remain skeptical), Let me recommend Will Durant’s “Our Oriental Heritage.” In this snippet alone, he unravels the flimsy social theory behind your woefully inept opinions:

    “Looking backward on this brief survey of primitive culture, we find every element of civilization except writing and the state. All the modes of economic life are invented for us here: hunting and fishing, herding and tillage, transport and building, industry and commerce and finance. All the simpler structures of political life are organized: the clan, the family, the village community, and the tribe; freedom and order -- those hostile foci around which civilization revolves -- find their first adjustment and reconciliation; law and justice begin. The fundamentals of morals are established: the training of children, the regulation of the sexes, the inculcation of honor and decency, of manners and loyalty. The bases of religion are laid, and its hopes and terrors are applied to the encouragement of morals and the strengthening of the group. Speech is developed into complex languages, medicine and surgery appear, and modest beginnings are made in science, literature, and art. All in all it is a picture of astonishing creation, of form rising out of chaos, of one road after another being opened from the animal to the sage. Without these "savages," and their hundred thousand years of experiment and groping, civilization could not have been. We owe almost everything to them -- as a fortunate, and possibly degenerate, youth inherits the means to culture, security and ease through the long toil of an unlettered ancestry.”
    Who is to say how Indigenous Americans would’ve grown and developed left strictly to their own devices? Furthermore, do you know nothing of the Mayas, Incas and Aztecs? These peoples each possessed kingdoms and empires, usually acquired through warfare and conquest just like most other expanding civilizations throughout history. Empires, in and of themselves, are the not active agents of advancement, but it is the advancement and growth themselves that spur on the creation of empires. Necessity is the mother of invention. I recommend a Pulitzer Prize winning book called “Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies” by Jared Diamond. It provides a healthy and modern take on why certain peoples have historically been at the top of the food chain and others at the bottom. Diamond's tackles the historically/commonly pervasive belief that Eurasian and North African civilizations have historically been successful in dominating the world based on some innate cultural and/or genetic superiority. Diamond posits that the achievement gaps in socio-political, cultural and financial power and technology between various human societies originate in environmental differences, which are amplified by "positive feedback loops." When cultural or genetic differences have favored Eurasians (for example, written language or the development among Eurasians of resistance to endemic diseases), he asserts that these advantages occurred because of the influence of geography on societies and cultures, and were not inherent in the Eurasian genomes."'This is the last time I'm going to say this: READ BEFORE YOU SPEAK.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I know, we could say that he is not naturally a kind and compassionate person, and yet due to his brilliant intellect he can understand his shortcomings and mold himself to be an ethical and law abiding citizen. Isn't it amazing and inspiring? He is also highly critical of himself, if not brutally honest. And it is not the end of the story. Being limited in "higher feelings" he still can teach others proper ways of behavior to live in harmony with each other and betterment of humankind in general. Most of it done by the way of logical thinking, deductions, predictions, causation, statistic, etc. He is rare yet inspiring example of nurture ruling over nature. If I didn't see it I wouldn't believe it, but he is real deal.
    Thank you sincerely LeBrok, you are far too kind. Your laser sharp wit, intellect, humor, reliance on logic, balance, objectivity and good sense most definitely make me feel a kindredness in spirit towards you. The brilliance displayed by Maciamo, you, Angela, and the other moderators are the very reason I decided to join and participate in this forum. But unfortunately, it comes as no surprise to me that sometimes others just don't get it.

    And in addressing Mr. Fire Haired's arm chair diagnosis of my apparent psychopathy (which I never said or owned by the way), I'd just like to say In general usage they may not be the shiniest, the warmest or and the most expressive, but I do have feelings, and they can run rather deep for select individuals and people I identify with > my wife, my parents, one of my siblings (lol), other introverts, intellectuals, nerds, scientists, engineers, agnostics, Norse pagans, Swedes, Brooklynites, Scandinavians, Northwestern Europeans, cultures I enjoy and admire (from the Germans, Italians, Japanese, Brazilians, Irish, Jews, Black Americans)—the latter of which highlighting the deep respect and kinship I feel for both the world’s dominant alphas and the fighting underdogs deadlocked in an unending Nietzschean struggle, the “will to power”: (forgive this brief tangent)

    For example, because of institutionalized bigotry and prejudice, historically Jews were pushed into accounting, finance, commerce, medicine and law in the same way that Black Americans were relegated to sports and entertainment and they are, at best, the masters of those domains and at worst, undeniable forces and influencers, which only illuminates how even more impressive/influential/powerful they could now be if they had never been relegated to limited spaces…but I digress. The most potent emotions I have are righteous indignation, contempt and anger, and especially in regard to systems and ideologies centered around irrationality, unfairness, inequality and injustice—I fully identify with people who say to the system “F*CK YOU, despite what you do, I’m still here, surviving and thriving.”
    '
    That being said, I tend not to approach life, the world, its people and all the inherent problems through an emotional lens, but rather a rational and clinical one. Just because I don’t cry for, hold hands with, hug and kiss my way through humanity, does not mean I’m some deranged person without a heart—if anything, my way of providing “emotional support” tends to come from helping people logically and systematically fix the very problems that make them need “emotional support” to begin with. I’m more concerned with how we are tied and interconnected in the abstract, macro, big picture sense, and doing what I can to lend to a greater balance and harmony that ultimately benefits us all—what matters most to me is what I do, my actions, and that they are based on a sound, fully conceived and executed logic that gels with my overarching life strategies and value systems, regardless of any feelings or a lack there of. For me, kindness and compassion are more cognitive and utilitarian functions than they are affectively emotional ones.

    But I do feel a sense of pride and accomplishment when I uphold my “bigger,” more important worldviews via the “smaller” gestures (seeing as how I can sometimes disdain minute “details”—like tactfulness, petty pleasantries and affirmations--that may be more important to others than they are to me), like helping an elderly neighbor with her bags, tutoring disadvantaged immigrant kids in Swedish, and rubbing my wife’s feet, knowing that in their seemingly localized subjectivities, these gestures actively make the world better in the grand scheme of things. As of now, besides death and retreating to a secluded island that I can’t yet afford, living on this planet amongst other humans is my only tenable option and so I need for our interactions to work as tranquilly, smoothly and efficiently as possible for me to not be despondent, apathetic or pissed off all the time--yes, ultimately, my end motivations are completely and practically self-serving but I’m ok with this. From my point of view, feelings and sentimentality are irrelevant so long as the end goal is achieved, and when that end goal is world peace, harmony, stability and balance, only the relentlessly dumb, obscenely myopic, sociopathic, intellectually dishonest, hyperemotional or irrational will find fault with how that’s achieved versus aiding to ensure its achievement and successful implementation no matter what.

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    Discuss all you want, but cut out the personal attacks, guys.


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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Let's just remember that this whole interaction started because YOU professed to be a “nice guy” but then immediately endorsed an ideology based on sociopathy, and yet you have the unmitigated GALL to call me a “wacko?” LOL Again, I’m almost left speechless at the lack of irony displayed here. Evidently these feelings you purport to possess don’t do anything for your value system—people like are you are the worst type of hypocrites. You claim to have feelings, but obviously, most of them are rather negative and destructive considering the ideologies you tend to endorse. How do these feelings you allegedly possess help better the world? Because if your values line up with the views you express, then YOU and those like YOU are the true dangers to the world. In all of my days, I've never seen anyone lack the ability to perceive context as much as you do, and that's saying a lot, considering the number of people with an ASD I work with.

    Regardless, on is thread alone (despite the other times I've analytically thrashed you), I've already proven beyond a reasonable doubt the dearth of your intellectual rigor, acumen, honesty and integrity. This entire polemic was battered and pan fried in disingenuousness, strawman logic, half-truths, quarter-truths and flat out lies. For shame. Even if I extend to you the benefit of the doubt that you suffer from some sort of pervasive neurological and developmental disorder with a cognitive rigidity unlike anything I've ever encountered before, you really should heed your own advice and address the issues in the same way I've already addressed my own shortcomings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    As I recall he was once banned and also cursed at Angela.
    Please stop mentioning my interactions with Angela while lacking a certain context evidently lost to you. But you’ve mentioned this before, so let’s address it. For one, I certainly like her better than you; debating her doesn’t make me want to claw my eyes out and follow up with a bleach cocktail just to make it all stop. Secondly, we may have had disagreements in the past (rooted in biases and blind spots I’m sure we both possess), but she is undeniably bright, articulate, coherent, well-informed, well-meaning, intellectually honest and therefore, a worthy sparring partner. Essentially, she’s the anti-you.

    She also reminds me of my mom, who is one of the smartest and most caring people I know, and who’s also had touchy and intense arguments with me my entire life, resulting from our respective “blind spots.” I am the type who oftentimes unintentionally “tramples over innocents” in attempting to make a larger point—I can seem harsh, insensitive, standoffish and rather arrogant in dispensing what I believe to be the cold, hard truth, though for me arrogance is usually more of a reactive, defense mechanism than it is a default disposition. My mother is sensitive to people’s emotional well-being in a way that I am not. Her very foundation is informed by a notion of granting basic human decency, empathy and respect to everyone regardless of belief system and ideology, and obviously not to the exclusion of arguments and debates.

    For me, when defending truth and logic, said “basic human decency” (in the immediate, one on one sense during an argument) is usually last on my list of priorities and especially when “triggered”—which occurs upon perceiving what I believe to be irrationality, intellectual dishonesty, willful ignorance, and the scapegoating of ‘underdogs’ (usually concerning larger, more sprawling, big picture ideas [the prevalence of gender bias, for example]) that, ironically, are intrinsically attached to what would/should constitute a lack of “basic human decency” from my personal worldview, which would therefore warrant a hostile response IMO, as opposed to politely and diplomatically adhering to the “lesser,” smaller notion of interpersonal “basic human decency” shown to a fellow debater (regardless of how nauseating) in the heat of battle. Under these circumstances, I tend to become irritated and even more cutthroat in my assessments.

    But this is where I believe that my mother sometimes “misses the forest for the trees” in the sense that maintaining interpersonal courtesy in a one on one dialogue with a misogynist can’t be more important than someone making overarching claims that are violently anti-woman. From my point of view (which I am NOT saying is the correct one, only that is my own view), a misogynist is not worthy of interpersonal decency because his views are so vile and especially here in a public forum, who knows what vulnerable mind is watching from the sidelines, and might be susceptible to such idiocy. But from my mother’s point of view, it seems as if maintaining a certain interpersonal civility (also, giving the benefit of the doubt) in the face of vehement disagreement is crucial to possessing and exercising true freedom of expression and tolerance of human difference, a principle America was founded on, in fact. Both my mother and I agree that basic human decency is important, and I know that, in keeping with the above analogy, she’s an even greater feminist than I am, but regardless, the when, where, how and to what degree we apply the importance of “basic human decency” differs at times, which has usually been a point of contention between us.

    I could not stand Tomenable, and in general, posters/people like him; I saw some of his views as hyper-aggressive, antagonistic, narrow-minded, disingenuous, barely tethered to reality, and bigoted towards the marginalized (again, I tend to focus on the macro view of ideas and their effects on people), even if he was more restrained in his interactions with me interpersonally (only barely); in effect, he was a bully IMO. I’ve always been the guy that bullies the bullies, particularly regarding matters of intellectual integrity, social theory and logic. It’s been my instinct and practice to stomp on certain people (read: their ideas) in protection of sound ideas, rationality and logic, FIRST, and “People,” big picture, capital P, second. In my world, the big picture from a pulled back and rational perspective, always wins the day as far as importance. Unfortunately, and unintentionally, at times, I tend to view people, small “p” (those we interact with on a more individual, interpersonal level) as more expendable/dispensable in preserving the intellectual integrity of the whole (but of an idea as it relates to its application towards people).

    Now I don’t believe that Angela approved of or condoned Tomenable’s behavior; several times, she handily debunked his bullsh*t with warnings. But I think she empathetically and compassionately saw a bright but wayward kid who had the potential to grow, change and evolve, and so she therefore gave him the latitude to do this via a less aggressive and antagonistic confrontation of his belief system. And considering that I lacked that same tact and compassion towards him because I found his belief system and skewed “logic” to be more troubling and disturbing in the immediate, bigger, more important sense, we were somewhat at odds, even though, on the substance of the issues, we were more so in agreement.

    People like her and my mom tend to be more idealistic and optimistic about people and their ability to change. I also believe in the ability for people to change but I tend to provoke that change from a harsher, more critical, more aggressive, less interpersonally amenable stance. I could be wrong, you’d have to ask her, but I think that she found my methods of interacting/debating more distasteful than my actual stances on the subject matter. My mother has had the same problem with me my whole life. Therefore, I hold no ill will towards Angela whatsoever—I routinely “like” her posts even if she doesn’t particularly care for me. Right or wrong, good or bad, ideas are more important to me than interpersonal disputes.

    I have slightly improved though, which is why I genuinely (but prematurely) complimented you on what I perceived to be your intellectual growth, in order to counterbalance my subsequent stinging rebuke of your ideas. However, when you say unkind and untrue things about my person, then I feel unencumbered in resending the very pleasantries I didn’t want to extend in the first place.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Discuss all you want, but cut out the personal attacks, guys.
    Thanks. You know you still haven't apologized for insulting me countless times because I shared an opinion or more accurately you just don't like me.

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    Wow I never knew people would go crazy in a forum room and do a long messages like that, hopefully it's just all banter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AdeoF View Post
    Wow I never knew people would go crazy in a forum room and do a long messages like that, hopefully it's just all banter.
    I know lol. I don't even care that much about the topic of the debate but I stay in it because Wanderlust is so *wacko.*

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    DNA forums attract so many assholes. Quite a few pleasant people do post at Anthrogencia like Jean Manco. Two types of assholes congregates in DNA forums. First, you have racists that would make Hitler proud (Tomebanle almost fits in this category). Then you have Ph.D., sociopathic, leftists who verbally attack you straight to hell if you use the word "race" or point out their biases, hate, and misconceptions.

    Angela, doesn't fit in either category, I like her sometimes, dislike other times. Lebrok is usually legit and civil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    DNA forums attract so many assholes. Quite a few pleasant people do post at Anthrogencia like Jean Manco. Two types of assholes congregates in DNA forums. First, you have racists that would make Hitler proud (Tomebanle almost fits in this category). Then you have Ph.D., sociopathic, leftists who verbally attack you straight to hell if you use the word "race" or point out their biases, hate, and misconceptions.
    Angela, doesn't fit in either category, I like her sometimes, dislike other times. Lebrok is usually legit and civil.
    Amen.
    Anthrogenica isn't bad when moderation steps in to end ridiculous topics such as "am I white?" and I wouldn't compare it to "the apricity", stormfront etc where the real sickos dwell.

    And according to Angela, the head admin of the apricity used to live in a concrete box

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    Wanderlust, **** you. Bring it on you barely human sociopathic *****. My life mission is to decimate the snobby, hate filled, marxists/leftists such as yourself. **** being an education major. You changed my mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    Wanderlust, **** you. Bring it on you barely human sociopathic *****. My life mission is to decimate the snobby, hate filled, marxists/leftists such as yourself. **** being an education major. You changed my mind.
    Like Jesus taught you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderlust View Post
    Having said that, Sweden is not now, nor will it ever be, a 3rd world ghetto.
    You'll get red-pilled sooner or later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Like Jesus taught you?
    Lebrok, I'm understandably very angry right now. The continuing spread of the ideology Wanderlust promotes isn't good for society and needs to be stopped. I've complained about it since I was 5 years old but now I want to do something about it. It's a close relative to what I think is right. The flaws lay bare and obvious but too many people don't notice them, I want people to start noticing them. People are starting to notice it. That's why Donald Trump won! I'm not saying I support Donald Trump, I don't, I just really despise the people who hate him and his supporters (such as Wanderlust).

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    This is what ideologues do: hurl insults at one another. When this is what happens, rational discourse is at an end.

    For the first time in my life I'm worried about America. This isn't the way it was when I grew up.

    I read an opinion piece by Razib Khan the other week where he said that most of the people who speak to him, on condition of anonymity, believe that there will be civil unrest in America pitting left against right, and that people will have to pick a side even if they don't agree with it.

    I thought he was exaggerating, but maybe he's right. In a world where someone thinks he's doing the right thing by driving a van into people taking a stroll on Halloween or ramming a school bus, I guess anything is possible.

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    I agree, Angela. Btw, I'm attacking the person Wanderlust not an ideaology. The dude's a jerk. In my last post, I was going to lay out how Wanderlust and leftists academics who obsess over intolerance like him also tend to be intolerant and continue this cycle of anger and hate in America.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    This is what ideologues do: hurl insults at one another. When this is what happens, rational discourse is at an end.
    For the first time in my life I'm worried about America. This isn't the way it was when I grew up.
    I read an opinion piece by Razib Khan the other week where he said that most of the people who speak to him, on condition of anonymity, believe that there will be civil unrest in America pitting left against right, and that people will have to pick a side even if they don't agree with it.
    I thought he was exaggerating, but maybe he's right. In a world where someone thinks he's doing the right thing by driving a van into people taking a stroll on Halloween or ramming a school bus, I guess anything is possible.
    If things get worse I'm leaving. I'm not an honorable captain who sinks with the ship, I'm grabbin the first lifeboat I can get and getting the hell out.

    Hmmmm..Argentina doesn't seem bad. I'll take Sardinia or anywhere that's rural (with internet of course ;)).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    This is what ideologues do: hurl insults at one another. When this is what happens, rational discourse is at an end.

    For the first time in my life I'm worried about America. This isn't the way it was when I grew up.

    I read an opinion piece by Razib Khan the other week where he said that most of the people who speak to him, on condition of anonymity, believe that there will be civil unrest in America pitting left against right, and that people will have to pick a side even if they don't agree with it.

    I thought he was exaggerating, but maybe he's right. In a world where someone thinks he's doing the right thing by driving a van into people taking a stroll on Halloween or ramming a school bus, I guess anything is possible.
    Yes, today was another terribly bad day for "the human experiment," and that distresses me, but the last thing the world needs is for the relatively few idealists among us to lose hope and so I'd encourage you to not retreat into greater cynicism and despair. My mother tells me that the late 60s (massive street protests, a new president harboring intense distrust of the media, widespread worries about war overseas and economic hardships at home, heightened political/racial/social divisions) carried a similar amount of palpable turbulence and high anxiety felt deep in the gut but the sense of division did not feel as wide--to that I add that the late 60s also didn't have the internet (where hyper-partisanship can find a home and "militarize" and thrive in multiple corners) and international multimedia conglomerates stoking the flames on deeply partisan lines for several decades. Perhaps that lends to why today seems so much worse, in that the division that has long existed is now being thrust into high relief and exacerbated by more virulent, filthy stinking rich and powerful "ideologues." Internet Losers like Firehaired and myself are relatively harmless in the grand scheme of things, continue to ignore us, I implore you.

    Personally, I like to think that I'm less intractable than commonly perceived in that I'm willing to change positions if the information demands as much but at the same time, I don't know how better to address people who refuse to do the same! There are a lot of false balances, false equivalencies, false dichotomies, and overall falsehoods bandied about as "rational" and equally justified responses to actual, measurable truth (e.g., climate change). How does one argue and come to an agreement with people who deny science and what can be veritably measured in the world a la arguing that warmer temperatures just means "God is holding us a bit tighter." I don't know, I honestly want the best for all of humanity, even those that disagree with me, but some (and I'm not saying I'm necessarily immune from this) are more comfortable cutting off their noses to spite their face.

    Just remember that the history of the world is told in ebbs and flows and periods of great instability and relative peace and harmony. Until humanity somehow learns to get above our basest, most primitive instincts, this pattern will continue. But I do believe that it is a pattern, and therefore, the goings-on of today should not be seen as some "end of days" type foreshadowing. In times like this, I feel compelled to turn towards my creature comforts, and so I will be bingeing on my wife's company, Netflix and ice cream. Find comfort where you can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Like Jesus taught you?
    Precisely. But according to him, I'm the one consumed by psychopathic antipathy, right?

    This type of thinking is what galls me the most, and I can't use these words enough > intellectual dishonesty, hypocrisy and mental rigidity. And it's just tragic that people who think like this will rarely if ever realize they possess these traits, traits that run almost antithetically to the pursuit of truth, which in the grand scheme of things, should be far more objective than some subjectively make it out to be.

    No matter how many times I say in different ways, illustrate and demonstrate that I'm far from some liberal marxist, he seems to quite literally be incapable of taking that information in, properly processing it, and adjusting his approach and thoughts about me. He immediately resorts to his own extremely jaundiced internal logic, which by the way, can objectively and effectively have no substantive basis in reality. But alas, he will never fully grasp that. So what to do with people like this? What does one do with someone who readily admitted that he says obnoxious things he barely cares about just for the sake of tr*lling and eliciting a reaction? I may be tactless, harsh and unrelenting in my delivery but my thinking is anything but "rigidly constructed" to just one way of seeing/doing things. I'm the one arguing for peace, harmony, balance, stability, tolerance and overcoming our basest instincts, instincts I possess in spades, NO MATTER WHAT, and even outed myself just to prove how certain worldviews are worthy of rigorous pursuit, even if they go against our core instincts. But somehow, in his estimation, I am the danger to the world that must be stopped? The only thing that's remotely worrying about his intellectual ineptitude and inability to entertain multiple perspectives is that these people somehow find themselves waist deep in American politics. Terrifyingly hilarious.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    I agree, Angela. Btw, I'm attacking the person Wanderlust not an ideaology. The dude's a jerk. In my last post, I was going to lay out how Wanderlust and leftists academics who obsess over intolerance like him also tend to be intolerant and continue this cycle of anger and hate in America.



    You ever hear of something called the paradox of tolerance? I'm going to go ahead and assume not.


    Philosopher Karl Popper defined the paradox in 1945 in The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1.


    Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.
    What’s always so amazingly disingenuous and insidious about the right’s railing against “PC Culture,” the horrors of supposed “intolerant” liberalism, etc… is that


    1.) There is usually some glaring hypocrisy afoot. For example, some (usually the loudest amongst them) conservatives will whine and cry about the freedom of speech being stifled on college campuses and cry about the removal of racist, traitorous Confederate monuments built to intimidate black people AND WITH NO SENSE OF IRONY, still cry and moan about the unAmericaness of NFL players who take the knee in expressing their freedom of speech. HUH???

    2.) Liberals are painted as intolerant because they resist traitorous Confederates (who lost and whose asses we kicked over 150 years ago) and Nazi sympathizers (who lost and whose asses we kicked in WW2) walking around with punk as* tiki torches, targeting elderly people in churches and college students, while yelling “Blood and soil” and “Jews will not replace us!” SERIOUSLY??? The right seems to want intolerant liberals to let them espouse and carry out beliefs that are, innately, centered on bigotry and prejudice and that call for (directly and indirectly) the disenfranchisement and/or slaughter of innocents.

    Somehow in some of their delusional brains, not letting Alt-Right loser and tittyboy Richard Spencer speak at a university is on the same level of egregiousness as being intolerant of people who think gays should be denied service because of their sexuality; who think transwomen should be forced to use the men’s restroom and even worse, shouldn't be allowed in the military; who think creationism and climate denial should be taught in schools because it’s just as valid any scientific analysis; who think government should be able to dictate what women do with their bodies (even though these same people supposedly hate big government). I could almost literally go on and on with the double standards and hypocrisy (more often than not, confined to the right) when it comes to the alleged intolerance of liberals.

    The thing is, there is MOST definitely an argument to be made that liberalism can go too far in stifling debate and discussion about certain hot button issues. But the problem is that many of the right deal in false balances, where they think that their positions deserve to be voiced even when the underpinnings of their rationale are counterfactual and flat out lies. It is more than acceptable and reasonable to take two different truths, based on factual/properly contextualized data, and have a hard debate, and absolutely unacceptable to let absurdist, conspiratorial, batsh*t ideas be given the same platform alongside verified, actionable empirical data and cogent, reality based arguments. How some don’t get the inherent fallacies with these double standards, I’ll never know. For example, it’s fine to be open to debating travel restrictions from areas known to be terrorist/recruitment hotspots but when most of the countries on the ban list haven’t produced a terrorist that’s actually harmed us in decades, if at all, and suspiciously exempts countries that have (Saudi Arabia, first and foremost), then THAT’S A PROBLEM. But have Fox news tell it, that’s all perfectly rationale. Conservatives need to look to themselves when it comes to the stifling of truth and the embrace of paranoid, fear based, anti-rational hyperemotionality.

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    LeBrok said:
    "PS. Last weekend I had a dinner with older couple who are organizing a small inclosed community on one of British Columbia islands, with aim to hid from this crazy and cruel world. Both with master degrees! Their only disappointment was that their kids chose to "enjoy" their family lives in big multicultural cities, like New York and London. Also they looked at me as I was the crazy one. ;) The crazy, optimistic, lost in the world, blind liberal."

    That's a great idea that works both ways! They'll be in an enclosed space free from all that scares them and they won't slow us down.

    They can do what they want and enforce Biblical Law where women who read are burned at the stake for being "witches", gay men or women are stoned to death, and technology is coined as magic and against the will of God.

    They can also enforce additional extreme right wing policies such as illegalizing gay marriage, equal pay for men and women, being Muslim, having non-Northern European ancestry, disliking Trump and his team (most of which is headed for jail lol) and being tolerant of others.

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