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Thread: J2b1-M205 introduced to Eupedia

  1. #251
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    Yes. Dante is better than old Big Y.
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    @ Dema

    Are coward to answer me why Dalmatian Serbs have 63% I and 77% northern y dna (I2a, I1, R1a and N), and only 6% J2b if they are Vlachs?

    Are you coward to answer me why Banija Serb up ploting close to Austruans and Dalmatian Serb got Austrians on the second places if they are Vlachs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Kriči tribe are tiny minority among Serbs from Bosnia and Croatia. They joined to I2a and R1a Serbian Slavic majority, like you ancestors joined to Albanians.

    You cheep propaganda is debunked!
    J2-M205 is micro haplogroup and is minority and low percentage everywhere in the world.

    That is even better for tracking it down.

    I never said that J2-M205 is majority in Krajina but rather i said something else, 8 don't want to repeat. Is there anything that you don't agree with me?

    I said that they are not Vlachs, read again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mich Glitch View Post
    Here is my neighborhood by 111 Y-STR markers (my sample in red):

    These all seem to be distant matches 6000 years away, do you see any match on 37 or 67 markers on FTDNA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    J2-M205 is micro haplogroup and is minority and low percentage everywhere in the world.

    That is even better for tracking it down.

    I never said that J2-M205 is majority in Krajina but rather i said something else, 8 don't want to repeat. Is there anything that you don't agree with me?

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Eupedia Forum mobile app
    Dalmatian Serbs are 6% J2b, Lika Serbs are around 15% J2b, Kordun Serbs are 2% J2b, Banija Serbs are 7-8% J2b, Slavonian Serbs are 2% J2b.

    Lika is not whole Krajina.
    In Lika before 1991 lived about 55 000 Serbs, in Dalmatia lived around 130 000 Serbs, in Banija over 80 000... Lika was region in Krajina with lowest number of Serbs.
    Lika Serbs have higher J2b than other Krajina Serbs due to genetic drift. Lika Serbs also have higher R1a and lower I2a than other Krajina Serbs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Dalmatian Serbs are 6% J2b, Lika Serbs are around 15% J2b, Kordun Serbs are 2% J2b, Banija Serbs are 7-8% J2b, Slavonian Serbs are 2% J2b.

    Lika is not whole Krajina.
    In Lika before 1991 lived about 55 000 Serbs, in Dalmatia lived around 130 000 Serbs, in Banija over 80 000... Lika was region in Krajina with lowest number of Serbs.
    Lika Serbs have higher J2b than other Krajina Serbs due to genetic drift. Lika Serbs also have higher R1a and lower I2a than other Krajina Serbs.
    I dont understand your point, God why i have to type it again. I said that Croatian and Bosnian so called Vlachs, or rather today Serbs are mostly notable by their higher E-v13 and J2-M205 haplogroups in compare to their South Slavic neighbours. Furthermore i said that J2-M205 is none existent among Vlachs also that they are rather slavicized natives rather then Vlachs.


    Also i said about Vlachs that they are just latinized Balkan natives with later Slavic influence rather then being related to Middle Easterners or Italians.


    Pls dont post rows of autosomal results as that is not important here and i dont see why are you posting autosomal stuff now.

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  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    They joined to I2a and R1a Serbian Slavic majority, like you ancestors joined to Albanians.
    We dont know what language Kriçi spoken. They were recorded as none Slavic Montenegrin tribe, its very possible they spoken Albanian language.

    So there is no proof that my ancestors joined Albanians. We could have been here since Phoenician time and joined Illyrian ethnos. Its possible when looking at genetics. Only Serbs know 100 % they joined recently but not me since language Kriçi spoken was 100 % not Serbian. Being Montenegrin native tribe, it does not need rocket scientist to conclude they were close to Albanians or even Albanians themselves.



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    @ Dema

    They don't have higher E-V13.
    Krajina Serbs have lower E-V13 than Serbian average, Serbs from Serbia and Montenegrins. Regions where Serbs have higher E-V13 than Serbian average are Montenegro, Shopluk (southeastern Serbia), Kosovo and Banat.
    Dalmatian Serbs have 13% E-V13, Kordun Serbs have 9% E-V13, Lika Serbs have 11-12% E-V13. On the other hand Croatians on average have about 10% E-V13, and Bosniaks from Bosnia have 11.2% E-V13 on average https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...s-(273-sample)
    Sandžakian Bosniaks have over 35% E-V13.

    Krajina Serbs are pred. Slavic genetically.

    K15 Mixed Mode of Dalmatian Serb whose results I posted up:
    1 58.7% Polish + 41.3% Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.86
    2 50.9% Belarrusian + 49.1% Tuscan @ 2.01
    3 54.3% Russian_Smolensk + 45.7% Tuscan 2.11

    K13 Mixed Mode of Serb from Lika:
    1 93.4% Moldavian + 6.6% Sardinian @ 3.52
    2 60.5% Ukrainian + 39.5% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.89
    3 67.8% Ukrainian + 32.2% Central_Greek @ 4.09

  9. #259
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    I am not so sure. I think TMRCA is about 2500-3000 ybp.

    I have just one 12 marker match. That's all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    @ Dema

    Are coward to answer me why Dalmatian Serbs have 63% I and 77% northern y dna (I2a, I1, R1a and N), and only 6% J2b if they are Vlachs?

    Are you coward to answer me why Banija Serb up ploting close to Austruans and Dalmatian Serb got Austrians on the second places if they are Vlachs?
    There is no scientific paper that says which genetics Croatian Serbians have and in which percentage so your data is not relevant.

    We do not know whose genetics you're exposing, as well you do not know history of Serbians in Croatia and Bosnia and for that reason your claims are incorrect.

    In Croatia part of population also crossing to Orthodoxy, in writing Vlachs are mentioned which have nothing to do with Serbians so this must be a fundamental fact in your presentation.

    We are talking about original genetics and we can not use recent history because Orthodox(Vlachs, Croatians etc) have become Serbs and Catholics(Vlachs) become Croats. We must use original historical data which speaks about origin of that population as well respecting some facts from the past ( transition to Orthodoxy in the Turkish period).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Dalmatian Serbs are 6% J2b, Lika Serbs are around 15% J2b, Kordun Serbs are 2% J2b, Banija Serbs are 7-8% J2b, Slavonian Serbs are 2% J2b.

    Lika is not whole Krajina.
    In Lika before 1991 lived about 55 000 Serbs, in Dalmatia lived around 130 000 Serbs, in Banija over 80 000... Lika was region in Krajina with lowest number of Serbs.
    Lika Serbs have higher J2b than other Krajina Serbs due to genetic drift. Lika Serbs also have higher R1a and lower I2a than other Krajina Serbs.
    Originally in Lika(possible one or two records) etc Serbs are not mentioned in historical records, do you understand now?

    Therefore we do not know whose origin is genetics of today's Serbians from Lika and Croatia.

    For Slavonia there is a little more data that mentione Serbians but for Lika, Kordun, Dalmatia, Banija there are no data or a few records for smaller areas. It is interesting that even in these records are mentioned along Vlachs, where Vlachs disappeared?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    @ Dema

    They don't have higher E-V13.
    Krajina Serbs have lower E-V13 than Serbian average, Serbs from Serbia and Montenegrins. Regions where Serbs have higher E-V13 than Serbian average are Montenegro, Shopluk (southeastern Serbia), Kosovo and Banat.
    Dalmatian Serbs have 13% E-V13, Kordun Serbs have 9% E-V13, Lika Serbs have 11-12% E-V13. On the other hand Croatians on average have about 10% E-V13, and Bosniaks from Bosnia have 11.2% E-V13 on average https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...s-(273-sample)
    Sandžakian Bosniaks have over 35% E-V13.

    Krajina Serbs are pred. Slavic genetically.

    K15 Mixed Mode of Dalmatian Serb whose results I posted up:
    1 58.7% Polish + 41.3% Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.86
    2 50.9% Belarrusian + 49.1% Tuscan @ 2.01
    3 54.3% Russian_Smolensk + 45.7% Tuscan 2.11

    K13 Mixed Mode of Serb from Lika:
    1 93.4% Moldavian + 6.6% Sardinian @ 3.52
    2 60.5% Ukrainian + 39.5% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.89
    3 67.8% Ukrainian + 32.2% Central_Greek @ 4.09
    You have to use data that is relevant for now, and that is scientific work for Bosnian Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks.

    http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turk...GeneticsEn.htm

    Bosnian Serbs according to scientific work have second haplotype in the population E1b 20%, which is logical because this population comes with Vlachs to Bosnia, J2 is 8%.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by hrvat22 View Post
    You have to use data that is relevant for now, and that is scientific work for Bosnian Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks.

    http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turk...GeneticsEn.htm

    Bosnian Serbs according to scientific work have second haplotype in the population E1b 20%, which is logical because this population comes with Vlachs to Bosnia, J2 is 8%.
    Kme, kme, kme... That is 10 years old = outdated.

    What's up in Kakanj? What raja in Kakanj doing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Kme, kme, kme... That is 10 years old = outdated.

    What's up in Kakanj? What raja in Kakanj doing?
    If you do not have relevant evidence to refute my claims you do not need to insult me instantly, this is not Serbian forum and please understand that.

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    1 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by hrvat22 View Post
    If you do not have relevant evidence to refute my claims you do not need to insult me instantly, this is not Serbian forum and please understand that.
    Serbian dna project is the best in region. There is few thousands tested and every day there is few new results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Serbian dna project is the best in region. There is few thousands tested and every day there is few new results.
    Unfortunately data from a private portal are not relevant evidence, we do not know how much is close relatives, cousins , people from the same villages and areas etc. in that data. We have respect some order, otherwise we enter into anarchy.

    But you still do not hear what I'm saying, originally most of Serbs are not mention in Croatia or most of Croatia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrvat22 View Post
    Unfortunately data from a private portal are not relevant evidence, we do not know how much is close relatives, cousins , people from the same villages and areas etc. in that data. We have respect some order, otherwise we enter into anarchy.

    But you still do not hear what I'm saying, originally most of Serbs are not mention in Croatia or most of Croatia.
    Stop using results of tested people on SDP if they are fake!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    @ Dema

    They don't have higher E-V13.
    Krajina Serbs have lower E-V13 than Serbian average, Serbs from Serbia and Montenegrins. Regions where Serbs have higher E-V13 than Serbian average are Montenegro, Shopluk (southeastern Serbia), K


    Look this is maps made out of Poreklo samples. You can see here E-v13 and J2b1. Its clear that its connected with South - Southeast Serbia (from Sopluk to Montenegro and Kosovo) and Montenegro while Both Ev13 and J2b1 are lacking in North Serbia. You have them only in these areas that are known for Vlach population, which are actually mostly slavicised Albanians from Montenegro and South Serbia region regarding these specific haplogroups.

    There is no J2b1 and E-v13 in North Serbia because its not real Slavo-Serbs but rather serbicized Vlacho Albanians, remains of Roman Empire or more recently Albanians/Vlachs..

    Bosnian and Croatian Serbs have obviously higher Ev13 and J2b1 in compare to Bosnjaks, Croats or Slovens, Ev13 up to 10x higher and J2-M205 up to 100x higher. Actually J2-M205 is probably 1000x higher then in Slovens. And stop posting rows of autosomal results since its not important in this discussion.
    This is result mostly of assimilating Montenegrin and South - Southeast none Slavic population.

    J2-M205 Serbs from Serbian project:




    J2b2, Ev13 and R1b-BY611 from Serbian project:



    Last edited by Dema; 11-04-19 at 10:22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    Look this is maps made out of Poreklo samples. You can see here E-v13 and J2b1. Its clear that its connected with South - Southeast Serbia (from Sopluk to Montenegro and Kosovo) and Montenegro while Both Ev13 and J2b1 are lacking in North Serbia. You have them only in these areas that are known for Vlach population, which are actually mostly slavicised Albanians from Montenegro and South Serbia region regarding these specific haplogroups.

    There is no J2b1 and E-v13 in North Serbia because its not real Slavo-Serbs but rather serbicized Vlacho Albanians, remains of Roman Empire or more recently Albanians/Vlachs..

    Bosnian and Croatian Serbs have obviously higher Ev13 and J2b1 in compare to Bosnjaks, Croats or Slovens, Ev13 up to 10x higher and J2-M205 up to 100x higher. Actually J2-M205 is probably 1000x higher then in Slovens. And stop posting rows of autosomal results since its not important in this discussion.
    This is result mostly of assimilating Montenegrin and South - Southeast none Slavic population.

    J2-M205 Serbs from Serbian project:




    J2b2, Ev13 and R1b-BY611 from Serbian project:



    High E-V13 in Zagreb area?

    That maps are bullshit. The highest E-V13 hava Montenegrins, Shops and Kosovo Serbs.

    E-V13 is 20% among Kosovo Serbs.
    This is y dna of Kosovo Serbs.


    E-V13 in Montenegro is 27%.

    E-V13 among Krajina is 12-13% according to statistics from what I have seen-

    I posted y dna of Dalmatian Serbs.

    Again:

    I2a-Din - 39%
    I1 - 24%
    E-V13 - 13%
    R1a - 8%
    J2b - 6%
    N - 4%
    J1 - 4%
    R1b - 3%

    Paternal lines of Dalmatian Serbs are:
    - 47% Slavic (I2a-Din, R1a)
    - 24% Germanic (I1)
    - 22% "Vlach" (E-V13, J2b, R1b)
    - 7% Unknown origin (J1, N)

    Why you ignore autosomal results of Banija Serbs and Dalmatian Serb which I posted? Because they are too northern for to be Vlachs, is not it?

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    Y dna of Serbs from Kordun (publicly available results) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kordun

    I2a-Din (16)
    Bajić (Katinovac/Topusko)
    Bekić (Čremušnica/Vrgin Most)
    Bižić (Dugi Dol/Krnjak)
    Brujić (Baović/Vrginmost)
    Brujić (Golinja/Vrginmost)
    Đurić (Maljevac/Cetingrad)
    Eror (Klokoč/Vojnić)
    Zobenica (Sadilovac/Rakovica)
    Ivančević (Nova Kršlja/Rakovica)
    Mamula (Slavsko Polje/Vrginmost)
    Macut (Cerovac Vukmanićki/Karlovac)
    Paravina (Sadilovac)
    Pekeč (Cetingrad)
    Pjevac(Jagrovac/Vojnić)
    Radović (Gojkovac/Cetingrad)
    Tesla (Ivanković Selo/Karlovac)

    R1a (6)
    Vučković (Cvijanović Brdo/Slunj)
    Janjanin (Ostrožin/Vrginmost)
    Marinković (Kozarac/Vrginmost)
    Mrđenović (Živkovića Kosa/Vojnić)
    Pajić (Široka Rijeka/Vojnić)
    Radaković (Popović Brdo/Karlovac)

    N (3)
    Kličković (Trepča/Vrginmost)
    Krivokuća (Gornja Trebinja)
    Kukulj (Blatuša/Vrginmost)

    G2a (3)
    Vidović (Novo Selo/Perjasica)
    Kozlica (Gdjkovac/Vojnić)
    Maćešić (Budačka Rijeka/Vojnić)

    E-V13 (2)
    Vukobratović (Vrginmost)
    Peurača (Gornji Budački/Krnjak)

    I1 (2)
    Višnjić (Maljevac/Cetingad)
    Mazalica (Vojišnica/Vojnić)

    R1b (2)
    Bulat (Kirin/Vrginmost)
    Vranješ (Katlovac)

    J2b (1)
    Novaković (Vojišnica/Vojnić)

    Only 2 E-V13 and 1 J2b!

  21. #271
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    High E-V13 in Zagreb area?

    That maps are bullshit. The highest E-V13 hava Montenegrins, Shops and Kosovo Serbs it?
    Why are you posting Kosovo Serb results now, who even mentioned them? Do you have hallucinations or issues?

    Stop spamming with meaningless rows of copy pasted statistics from some random pages.
    Where i said there is high ev13 in zagreb? Why are you spamming this thread with none relevant things that i didn't even say?

    There is no Ev13 in Zagreb and not high ev13 as you say. Do you have eyes? Do you need doctor?

    These are samples from Serbian forum poreklo, why dont you map all Serbian ev13 and j2b1 from poreklo so we see what results you get.

    J2b1 map was made by Petar Demic, i took it from Poreklo. If you dont agree with something you can write them complains.


    Now ffs stop spam

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  22. #272
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2-M205*

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Please, is there moderators, why is this guy spamming with none relevant copy pasted rows of statistics and none relevant rows of gedmatch calculator results, please wtf???

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  23. #273
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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    Stop spamming with meaningless rows of copy pasted statistics from some random pages.
    Where i said there is high ev13 in zagreb? Why are you spamming this thread with none relevant things that i didn't even say?

    There is no Ev13 in Zagreb and not high ev13 as you say. Do you have eyes?

    These are samples from Serbian forum poreklo, why dont you map all Serbian ev13 and j2b1 from poreklo so we see what results you get.

    J2b1 map was made by Petar Demic, i took it from Poreklo. If you dont agree with something you can write them complains.


    Now ffs stop spam

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    Petar Demić! Is this a joke?
    Petar Demić is J2b1 and he put non-real % of his haplogroup, because he has problem to belong to weird haplogroup. Tested J2b1 from same villages who have surnames and who are cousins...

    I also know Serbs who are N-P189.2 supremists they carry this haplogroup, and I1 supremists who carry I1 and think they are Vikings.

    Among results from 23andMe always is domination of I2a and R1a among Serbs from most regions including Krajina. Because there is no manipulations and planing tested people on 23andMe.

  24. #274
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Mich Glitch View Post
    I am not so sure. I think TMRCA is about 2500-3000 ybp.

    I have just one 12 marker match. That's all.

    12 markers cant be classified as match, i thought that you have at least some 37 or 67 marker Ukraine or Poland matches on FTDNA, then we would know they fall in your branch. I will look for Ukraine M205 samples to see if they have enough markers revealed and maybe they share your unique markers.

    According to Yfull matches, seems like all are 5600 years far away from you. You are like small brother clade to CTS1969 and Y45447, formed 5600 years ago and they dont share any SNP with you below PF7321.

    There has been some changes on Yfull, we got some new samples and our TMRCA fall down from 6000 to 5600 years.

  25. #275
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1a5

    Country: Canada



    - According to Yfull matches, seems like all are 5600 years far away from you.

    - Unfortunately my closest matches from this tree don't have Big Y (and YFull, of course).


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