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Thread: J2b1-M205 introduced to Eupedia

  1. #451
    Banned
    Join Date
    19-10-17
    Posts
    521

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2-M205

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    lol i got tired of this.. Looks like Italian file i downloaded only had 50mb but somehow it was showing it as fully downloaded bam file. Therefore thats why i got all these no reads instead of positive/negative.
    I realised my file has only 50mb and when i redownloaded then it had 200mb. Probably the same thing happened with Greek file and thats why i could not get positive read on my private SNP.
    Anyways since i worked with one of corrupted files before now i did it all again. The only difference is where i had no read on Italian before now i mostly get NEGATIVE same as Turkish sample.



    Therefore i made few mistakes in previous phylogeny and this should be definitive good one:


    J2-M205>Y22075>A11525+ Turkish Black Sea (TMRCA 4000-5000 ybp)
    J2-M205>Y22075>A11525+ Cont. Italian (TMRCA 4000 - 5000 ybp)
    J2-M205>Y22075>A11525>Y22059+ Balkan (TMRCA 1000 ybp)
    J2-M205>Y22075>A11525>Y22059>Y22063>BY162742+ Albanian and Greek (TMRCA 600 - 700 ybp)


    Therefore Turkish Black Sea sample and Continental Italian split our clade (Y22059/Y22066) in same way with overall TMRCA of around 4000-5000 years.


    Here is definitive SNP call list
    (RCG24 ITA, TBS19 TUR) from study:


    Y22079 ITA NEGATIVE TUR NEGATIVE

    Y22062 NOCOV

    Y22074 NOCOV

    Y22060 NOCOV

    Y22061 NOCOV

    Y22066 NOCOV

    Y22067 ITA NEGATIVE TUR NEGATIVE

    Y22064 ITA NEGATIVE TUR NEGATIVE

    Y22065 ITA NEGATIVE TUR NEGATIVE

    Y22071 ITA NEGATIVE TUR NEGATIVE

    Y22080 NOCOV

    A11525 ITA POSITIVE TUR POSITIVE

    Y22081 ITA NEGATIVE TUR NEGATIVE

    Y22073 ITA NEGATIVE TUR NEGATIVE

    Y22083 ITA NEGATIVE TUR NEGATIVE

    Y22068 ITA NEGATIVE TUR NEGATIVE

    Y24805 NOCOV

    Y24806 NOCOV

    Y24809 NOCOV

    BY40885 NOCOV

    BY40913 NOCOV

    Y24808 NOCOV

    Y22059 NOCOV

    Y22078 ITA NEGATIVE TUR NEGATIVE

    Y24811 NOCOV

    Y24807 NOCOV

    Y22077 NOCOV

    FT238853 NOCOV

    Y24810 ITA NEGATIVE TUR NEGATIVE

    FGC55083 ITA NEGATIVE TUR NEGATIVE

    Y188611 NOCOV

    Y24804 NOCOV

    Y22063 ITA NEGATIVE TUR NEGATIVE


    Last edited by Dema; 25-05-20 at 20:00.

  2. #452
    Banned
    Join Date
    19-10-17
    Posts
    521

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2-M205

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    What is interesting about these results is that both Cont. Italian and Turkish Black Sea sample have same reads against Y22059/Y22066 level of SNPs.

    19 not covered, 12 negative, and 1 positive.


    Since they are positive to exactly same SNP (A11525) and negative to all same 12 other SNPs from Y22059 lvl i think there is decent chance they belong to relatively same or close branch.
    Also since there is 12 negatives and only 1 positive i think the negative trend would continue within the rest of 19 not covered SNPs, even tho there is chance they would share few more SNPs with us except A11525.


    Therefore its safe to say that Balkan clade Y22059/Y22066 has TMRCA at least 4000-5000 years ago with their closest cousins in continental Italy and Turkish Black Sea.

  3. #453
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    23-01-17
    Location
    Leskovac
    Posts
    21

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b-M205

    Country: Serbia



    Hey Dema! Any input on the possibility of Greek ethnos after Phoenician? You remember the story I told you way back, does it make more sense now with regards to the new findings?

  4. #454
    Banned
    Join Date
    19-10-17
    Posts
    521

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2-M205

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    Hey Dema! Any input on the possibility of Greek ethnos after Phoenician? You remember the story I told you way back, does it make more sense now with regards to the new findings?
    Hello Mercurial, best regards!
    I remember your story of Greek origin and with new finds of Y22063 Greek which shares TMRCA 600-700 years with me. Also with new Italian and possibly Anatolian Greek or Turk samples which share TMRCA over 4000 years with us. But also because of high diversity among Greeks and actually highest percantage of J2-M205 in the world among Cypriot Greeks, it makes me believe that many subclades spread with Greeks after lossing Phoenician/Canaanite identity.

    I definitely believe that J2-M205>Y22059 spread with Greeks and is more northern J2-M205 line, unlike most of its brother clades being more south towards Greece, Italy, Mediterranean Sea, and Middle East.

    Also i asked two Albanian admins recently for opinion and they both said it's probably Greek expansion.

    Also what i think is because of no close relatives and closest ones being few thousand years far from us, we are not that recent arrival. Maybe we arrived with very early Greek colonies which started since 800 BCE. Like for example Albanian city Durrës which actually started as a Greek colony in 600 BCE. Or Island Pharos which was also Greek colony, and so on.. I would say Y22059 arrived in Balkans earliest with Greek colonies around 600 BCE or latest with Roman Empire.

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  5. #455
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    23-01-17
    Location
    Leskovac
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b-M205

    Country: Serbia



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Thank you for the response Dema!

    I have just a little bit more information. Above my village there there are many highlands and there exists a place that was called "Grčke trle" (Greek stables) within what is known as "Čuka" region and the road that leads to there and beyond was called the Greek road. Me and my broad family own a lot of forests in this area and we even found some old ruins in one of the parcels. Like an entrance to the building with bricks. I've learned that trla means a stable, but I got that from the internet. I will investigate further.

  6. #456
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    07-09-21
    Posts
    3


    Country: Australia



    Hi Mercurial, my father comes from area close to where you live in Leskovac. He was born in the village of Babicko on Babicka Gora (mountain), which seems close to your village Orasac. In fact, the mountain is the southern part of your village. For around 2 years I have been researching Karakacani/Sarakatsani, and I have finally concluded that my dad ancestors were from this ethnic group. Going back 6-7 generations, my earliest known ancestor Kosta, arrived with his family from Djustendil Banja (Bulgaria), and found Babicko village.

    I read some of your other posts here, and you are right that our area has many Vlach names for mountains, lakes, towns, and villages.
    North of Babicko, there is a village called Grkinja (Greek female), most likely found by a Greek Karakatchani shephered who had a daughter. Suva Planina as well as many villages west and south-west of Leskovac (opposite side of us), has a record of Karakatchani settling there, after ending their semi-nomadic lifestyle.
    My YDNA BigY is I1-M253, and has origins in Greece in 13th century, but it is believed to have come from Northern Europe or Southern Scandinavia, into Balkans around 4-5 century AD.

    Lets connect if interested.

    Cheers

  7. #457
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    07-09-21
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    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    Thank you for the response Dema!

    I have just a little bit more information. Above my village there there are many highlands and there exists a place that was called "Grčke trle" (Greek stables) within what is known as "Čuka" region and the road that leads to there and beyond was called the Greek road. Me and my broad family own a lot of forests in this area and we even found some old ruins in one of the parcels. Like an entrance to the building with bricks. I've learned that trla means a stable, but I got that from the internet. I will investigate further.
    Check my previous post on this thread, I believe we have Karakatchani ancestors who live close to each other. Lets connect. Cheers

  8. #458
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    23-01-17
    Location
    Leskovac
    Posts
    21

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b-M205

    Country: Serbia



    Hey driM7! That's an interesting story! Yes, Orasac village is super close to Babicka gora, it's as close as it gets, here's a picture of it from a highland in my village. Babicka is on the left and Suva planina is on the right. Happy to connect and share info! :)
    Attachment 12904

  9. #459
    Junior Member
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    Country: Australia




    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    Hey driM7! That's an interesting story! Yes, Orasac village is super close to Babicka gora, it's as close as it gets, here's a picture of it from a highland in my village. Babicka is on the left and Suva planina is on the right. Happy to connect and share info! :)
    Attachment 12904
    Thanks. Pity I can not open this attachment. By the way, I've responded to your private message, unsure if you received it. Otherwise I will resend.
    Cheers

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