J2b1-M205 introduced to Eupedia

I should be PF7321* because Y45447 is negative and CTS1969 negetive too (checked by YSEQ).


Can you explain, why should you be PF7321* since Y45447 and CTS1969 are negetive?
 
Yes. Sure.

If you have at least one non-read low SNP (in my case Y45447 or CTS1969), you don't have * after SNP name.
So, I'm shown as
PF7321 'cause my CTS1969 is not read by FTDNA. I've checked it in YSEQ. It is negative as Y45447 too.

I.e. I am
PF7321*.
 
Almost sure, that YF12115 has one or two non read SNPs.
 
Yes. Sure.
If you have at least one non-read low SNP (in my case Y45447 or CTS1969), you don't have * after SNP name.
So, I'm shown as
PF7321 'cause my CTS1969 is not read by FTDNA. I've checked it in YSEQ. It is negative as Y45447 too.
I.e. I am
PF7321*.

Correct!

I explained the issue with CTS1969 at the beginning of this thread a while ago (not read by BigY), but apparently some didn't bother to read or pay attention to it. Turns out the "Balkan Cluster" (J-Y22059,Y22066), is now correctly placed under CTS1969 at YFull, just like I said it should be.

The "Balkan Cluster" (J-Y22059,Y22066) phylogeny currently goes something like this: J2b1-M205>CTS1969>PH4306>Y22066. So this cluster is also under the CTS1969 branch. The reason why YFulll doesn't have it under CTS1969 is because this SNP is not well covered by the BigY, and the two samples have no-call for this SNP. Below CTS1969, the "Balkan Cluster" also shares PH4306 and Y22075 with scientific NGS samples from the Levant area, and a BigY sample from Qatar who hasn't uploaded to YFull, as can be seen here: http://tree.j2-m172.info/?Hg=J2b1
So the "Balkan Cluster" (J-Y22066,Y22059) does not form a "distinct" J2b1-M205 branch as suggested by the YTree (due to CTS1969 being no call and other samples not at YFull), but at the same time, currently it has no close relatives.
 
Correct!

I explained the issue with CTS1969 at the beginning of this thread a while ago (not read by BigY), but apparently some didn't bother to read or pay attention to it. Turns out the "Balkan Cluster" (J-Y22059,Y22066), is now correctly placed under CTS1969 at YFull, just like I said it should be.

Yes its for a while like that but also new update recently happened, we were talking about Balkan branch back then, which is apparently more correctly placed now but here we are talking about his results.
So he is CTS1969- and Y45447- and it was nowhere said that if you dont have SNP or two correctly covered Yfull does not put * (asterisk) behind your terminal SNP.
Also how come that Yfull was able to then correctly place for example Balkan branch while it still cant confirm that he is negative for CTS1969 and perhaps some other SNP so it can assign him asterisk sign at least?

Is this only temporary situation on Yfull and will it change in future? Also what is needed for him to know more precise subclade? Does he has to wait for someone who is closer to him so his branch downstream of PF7321 could be identified after sharing a same SNP? Also can there be anything else found in his SNP list, isn't there a SNP to which only he is positive?

As you know im not expert in SNPs, i hope ill understand them better after my bigY arrives. This SNP coverage looks a bit messy, hopefully technology will improve in future.
 
 

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Almost sure, that YF12115 has one or two non read SNPs.


Going by STRs, i am much more sure about him that he is PF7321* then you are.
But going by logic you should be too. I only didnt understand technical situation by Yfull.

Yes. Sure.

If you have at least one non-read low SNP (in my case Y45447 or CTS1969), you don't have * after SNP name.
So, I'm shown as
PF7321 'cause my CTS1969 is not read by FTDNA. I've checked it in YSEQ. It is negative as Y45447 too.

I.e. I am
PF7321*.

I understand, thanks. Also i have been able to find some kind of explanation in Yfull faq that i believe has to do something with your results being shown temporary as they are:


* Not used for analysis - This phrase appears after certain SNPs located with the Check SNPs tool. These SNPs will not have a star rating because they are not used for sample analysis for a variety of reasons, such as being located in a homological region or because YFull has no, or only one, sample showing the SNP.


* Localization - the determination that a Novel SNP lies within a particular haplogroup. The phrase "Additional localizations for variant" followed by a red number, as used in the Ambiguous tab of Novel SNPs, means that the SNP was observed in one or more additional haplogroups.
 
I got my BigY 500 results.

FTDNA has assigned me as Y22063. I have some novel and none matching variants. According to our project admin Trojet, i should form a new third parallel line with other two samples under Y22063, so i am Y22063* so far. TMRCA of Y22063 could increase. But to confirm all this i need to upload on Yfull, which i will do.

My BAM file is currently being generated.
 
Serbian, obviously.
 
Keep stalking me boy. You will be disappointed when you find out I have no drugs on me, narcoman.
 
^


Nobody is stalking you, junkie. Time to leave your mothers apartment.
 
You have Serbian ancestry, obviously.


I think you are up to something as Dibran has also noticed lol:

I pointed out once to Fustan on Apricity that his autosomal was more Slavic shifted than normal for Albanians, and that is when he became vehement and started his drivel towards me. I also didn't know much about autosomal then(but we live and we learn).


Fustan clearly plots away from us, when looking autosomally. If i remember correctly he was one of most Slavic shifted, going way out of our Albanian plotting circle.
Hes closest match (autosomally which are his close relatives lol) is Bosnian Slavicized Vlach (J2b1), and there is also I2a close Serb match as you noticed.
He hangs with Serbs all the time in discord, he backups them, and he does not speak a word of Albanian language. He is outcast as much as one can be.
Even tho i have 18% East (Balto Slavic), i still plot within Albanian plotting circle (a bit Tuscany shifted), and nothing like this outcast.

Regarding him calling you Narco, i will just say lol because you are like 100x more athlete then he will ever be in his miserable life.

If Fustan likes it, i have nothing against his Serbian connection, but if possible leave me out of it, and dont infect my threads with your psychological problems. Rather go work, help you mom, help your neighbor then wasting life being sour and hating everything.
I wish if i could debate with him, or argue about anything, but guy is such a low-iqer that its impossible to argue anything with him. His intention is just to provoke and act like some gnom, which again proves he has nothing better to do in life lol.
 
I think you are up to something as Dibran has also noticed lol:




Fustan clearly plots away from us, when looking autosomally. If i remember correctly he was one of most Slavic shifted, going way out of our Albanian plotting circle.
Hes closest match (autosomally which are his close relatives lol) is Bosnian Slavicized Vlach (J2b1), and there is also I2a close Serb match as you noticed.
He hangs with Serbs all the time in discord, he backups them, and he does not speak a word of Albanian language. He is outcast as much as one can be.
Even tho i have 18% East (Balto Slavic), i still plot within Albanian plotting circle (a bit Tuscany shifted), and nothing like this outcast.

Regarding him calling you Narco, i will just say lol because you are like 100x more athlete then he will ever be in his miserable life.

If Fustan likes it, i have nothing against his Serbian connection, but if possible leave me out of it, and dont infect my threads with your psychological problems. Rather go work, help you mom, help your neighbor then wasting life being sour and hating everything.
I wish if i could debate with him, or argue about anything, but guy is such a low-iqer that its impossible to argue anything with him. His intention is just to provoke and act like some gnom, which again proves he has nothing better to do in life lol.

He is a good Swedish boy. ;)
 
Haplogroup-J2b1.png


Not only is this haplogroup most common and diverse among Serbs, but Serbian ethnographers who studied your village revealed to us that your family were Serbs who became Albanized because they converted to Islam.

You can cope how much you want and do all sorts of mental gymnastics but anyone who sees that 2+2=4 will know the truth of this haplogroup.

Also, to Dibran, my paternal line has been Albanian since the ethnos started, kidnapping slavic brides while yours (R1a) and Demas (J2b1) paternal ancestor came into our lands in Huno-Avaric cages speaking broken Serbian (Dema knowing this language fluently today ironically).
 
You are heavy Slavic influenced autosomally for Albanian standards! LOL

man I'm dying laughing, Dema is hilarious

how far will a man go to deny his paternal heritage?
 
man I'm dying laughing, Dema is hilarious

how far will a man go to deny his paternal heritage?

His haplogroup is more common among Serbs than among Albanians.
Serbs have 4-5% J2b-M205, and Albanians less than 1%.
I have seen Croatians and Bulgarians which carry J2b-M205.

This Croatian nationalistic activist is J2b-M205. His name is Frane Čirko.
frano-cirko.jpg

frano-cirko.jpg

frono-cirko.jpg


Does he look like Dema? :unsure:

Both of them, Dema and this Croatian dude are descendants of this Vlach tribe [video]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriči[/video]
 
This thread is closed. Once again some of our Balkan members prove they can't communicate without personal attacks.

I will consider when to re-open it.
 
Haplogroup-J2b1.png


Not only is this haplogroup most common and diverse among Serbs,

J-M205 entered in Serb and South Slav ethos only since they managed to Slavicize their native territories in Montenegro and surrounding areas, in fight with Serbicized Drobnjaks, and in Late Middle Ages acording to Ottoman defter from 1475 following Krici tribe names. Just as many other clades did, probably as Albanian in origin E-v13>PH1246 also did.


Map that you quoted is J-M205, J1b1a, previously known as J2b1. This haplogroup is neither most common neither most diverse among Serbs as you say. All Serb samples have brother clades with higher TMRCA in Palestine, Qatar, Jordan, Armenia. Most of them have TMRCA of 800 years and no Slavic relatives anywhere in the world going upstream the genetic tree. If you would bother to read as was already explained many times on Foleja (http://www.foleja.net/index.php?topic=371.msg1152#msg1152 also here http://www.foleja.net/index.php?topic=14.msg5371#msg5371 ) but also in this thread, rather then being barely interested, you would understand these things. J2-M205/J2b1a is most common in Cypruss, 6 per cent according to public / annonymus researches. Also its found in entire Middle East all the way south, in Oman and Yemen. This map showing Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Egypt like there is no J2-M205 is just lack of information avialable also probably one of first tries of Maciamo to make more precize map of this haplogroup.
Actually we have Albanian found in both Gheg area of Albania, and Tosk area, also me in Kosovo. Where these 3 Albanians have higher diversity then all Serbian J-M205 sampels.


J2-M205 is most diverse in Middle East, where practically all major clades have Middle Eastern samples that split at some point. Two oldest M205 ancient DNA were found in Middle East, Jordan and Lebanon. https://j2-m172.info/2016/10/possib...ed-cts1969-cts5338-yp13-ph4306-ph1089-y22066/


Serbs were overhyping this haplogroup among them for some time, but after bigY test and more Y67s it was clear its recent arrival among them. Haplogroup is not distributed among Serbs or South Slavs, either on Balkans as this map suggests but rather very isolated in two hot spots, Croatian Krajina known for Vlach population, and Montenegro known for Albanian and Latin speaking population. As mentioned above J-M205 is Middle Eastern native, and not Serbian. Even tho there is more groups in Balkan, looks like this one arrived recently thru Byzantine provinces of Middle East. Most likely Lebanon, Palestine and surroundings.

I form brother clade to all these assimilated Vlachs (Y22066), where separation time happened probably around 1000 years ago (waiting Yfull to finish). Which is time when these people were Byzantine Romans or Latin speaking Montenegrins so Vlachs at best. None of them falls into my sublcade inside of Y22063, and Serbian TMRCA cannot be confirmed in my case.


but Serbian ethnographers who studied your village revealed to us that your family were Serbs who became Albanized because they converted to Islam.
You can cope how much you want and do all sorts of mental gymnastics but anyone who sees that 2+2=4 will know the truth of this haplogroup.


It is not "coping", but going by facts, its simple STRs, SNPs, genetic distance and history. Not that i want to degrade you, but to be honest it is not something that you proven so far to understand very well. Better if you hanged and asked questions in Foleja, then in discord with Serbs.

In my region but also wider my family as brotherhood were probably among the first Islam acceptors, which allowed them to take control over lands. We later joined with clanish arriving Catholic Albanians, but they were for sure not alien to us, neither we to them. Later it become fully Muslim community, but it was ethnically pure Albanian. Only Albanian language was spoken. No one becomes Albanian because he becomes Muslim lol.

Book is issued by ethographer that you mention in year 1930, where it had to get thru vast Yugoslavian anti Albanian propaganda and cenzorship. Ethographer (Urosevic) just as his books claims that Kosovo was 100 % ethnically Serbian prior to 17 century, prior to North Albanian clanish Gheg expansion supported by Ottomans. Also he describes Albanians as thief's and animals. Therefore ethnographer was only recording arriving Albanians that emigrated from North Albania into Kosovo as Albanians. All others were put in Serb category. Truth is that there was a good portion of Catholic Albanians. But also even more Orthodox Albanians and Vlachs, with Slavic names due to their prior Bulgarian but also later Serbian Orthodox church but they never spoken Serb language at home which at the end defines their ethnicity. There was a good portion of Kosovar Albanians that joined with arriving clans and my family is just one of these cases.

Serbian historians argue that all Kosovo Albanians that do not belong to clan are Albanised Serbs. My family is nothing special in that book, as there is great deal of Kosovar Albanians recorded as Serbs in that book, in fact all families that lived in Kosovo prior to 17 century were recorded as Serbs with shady or no explanation at all. In my case, they concluded that i am from old family therefore i was Orthodox so that was enough for them. I am just the first of them tested. As genetic results say, maybe i cannot yet prove that i was Albanian long ago (because of my rare line, and not yet many Albanians tested), which is not even relevant in this case, but what i can prove is that my line was never Serbian neither Serb speaking.

Due to a genetic fact that only i have medium mutation markers DYS389II 27 and DYS448 20, and only i identify with Albanians, while none of them has these values there and not much variations there and none of them identifies with Albanians. Even tho Serbs tested 10x more people then Albanians did. Simply split between me and Serbs happened 1000 years ago, when they were not Serbs, and not in last 200 years like Serbian ethnographer suggests. Krici the Latin speaking tribe is most likely brother clade to me, Serbs assimilating them does not mean that i am also automatically Serb lol.



Also, to Dibran, my paternal line has been Albanian since the ethnos started, kidnapping slavic brides while yours (R1a) and Demas (J2b1) paternal ancestor came into our lands in Huno-Avaric cages speaking broken Serbian (Dema knowing this language fluently today ironically).

At times when my Roman Levantine ancestor arrived both Illyrians and Slavs were put in Avar cages, i have been thinking about it. He must have found entire Balkan savage and rude at that time, just as i find it today :)
To be honest Avars were no joke, good that we got rid of them.

His haplogroup is more common among Serbs than among Albanians.
Serbs have 4-5% J2b-M205, and Albanians less than 1%.


I have explained everything to you since you contacted me on private, dont post here since it was obvious you knowledge regarding this haplogroup and facts were very weak.
Even tho i explained you TMRCA, clades and separations you still make same mistakes in conclusions. Simply as i understand you think that all Y22066 had to be Serb at one point. Which is ridiculous.

You tell me on private that i should listen to Petar Demic, Nebojsa Novakovic, Fustan and Dibran, while its three guys whos genetic results were at some point analysed by me.
Fustans results i recently analysed on Foleja, Dibrans results i analysed on our FTDNA page and on anthrogenica, also Nebojsha results since he was not understanding simple phylogeny when looking at Yfull lol.
Dibran is good guy and fast learning, i dont recall he ever mentioned J2b1, also give my best regards to Petar Demic. Its time he accepts facts also, i was telling him that he should do autosomal long ago since its also important and he was saying that its useless only Ydna matters, as i see that you are into autosomals, maybe you can explain him that autosomal is very interesting and not usless as he thinks.

If ill listen to anyone it will be Albanian admins Flor and Leki, also ill listen to myself lol, and not these that you mentioned. TBH Fustan is among least knowledgeable people in our project, why the hell should i ever listen to him?



Here are my FTDNA matches, i dont see a single Serb there. Calculating distance, these that i match (1000 years ago) were not Serbs at that time. Tomorrow they can become Chinese just as they recently become Serbs, will that make me Chinese also?


aAy0pBK.png
 

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