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Thread: J2b1-M205 introduced to Eupedia

  1. #151
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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Dema is an manipulator. His posts are cherry-picking. I2a and R1a are much stronger among Krajina Serbs than E1b and J2b.
    He is obsessed with haplogroups. Haplogroup is less than 0,1% of total human DNA. Autsomal is much more important, and Krajina Serbs are the more nothern shifted Serbs.
    If Krajina Serbs are paleo-Balkanites how is possible that they shifted more nothern than other Serbs? Whether their ploting with Bosnian muslims and Croatians fell from the sky.

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    Here are photos of Banija Serbs (they are Krajina Serbs) https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-they-can-fit)

    Most of votes is for option that they look like Croatians.
    Polish user said that all of them can pass as Poles.

    I2a+R1a among Banija Serbs are over 60%, also Banija Serbs look pretty Slavic for Balkan standards.

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    I agree, all this should be moved to some Balkan thread. Lets continue with J2B1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Dema is an manipulator. His posts are cherry-picking. I2a and R1a are much stronger among Krajina Serbs than E1b and J2b.
    He is obsessed with haplogroups. Haplogroup is less than 0,1% of total human DNA. Autsomal is much more important, and Krajina Serbs are the more nothern shifted Serbs.
    If Krajina Serbs are paleo-Balkanites how is possible that they shifted more nothern than other Serbs? Whether their ploting with Bosnian muslims and Croatians fell from the sky.
    In you question there is an answer.

    Got it now?
    Neopisivo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonomyro View Post
    In you question there is an answer.

    Got it now?
    Bosnian and Krajina Serbs very rare mixed with Bosnian muslims and Croatians, because of religion.
    Autosomal DNA of Bosnian and Krajina Serbs is from their own haplogroups. Peleo-Balkanite haplogroups among Krajina Serbs are in minority towards the Slavic and northern haplogroups in general. There is more paleo-Balkanite haplogroups among Vojvodinian Serbs than among Krajina Serbs. Banat is especially influenced with high % of paleo-Balkanite haplos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Bosnian and Krajina Serbs very rare mixed with Bosnian muslims and Croatians, because of religion.
    Autosomal DNA of Bosnian and Krajina Serbs is from their own haplogroups. Peleo-Balkanite haplogroups among Krajina Serbs are in minority towards the Slavic and northern haplogroups in general.
    Autosomal DNA from haplogroups?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    There is more paleo-Balkanite haplogroups among Vojvodinian Serbs than among Krajina Serbs. Banat is especially influenced with high % of paleo-Balkanite haplos.
    That's according to the expectations. Serbs of Banat mostly descend from the medieval Serbian population. That migration is well documented.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonomyro View Post
    Autosomal DNA from haplogroups?
    I mean Krajina Serbs mixed mostly among themselves, they mixed very rare with Croatians. Fact is that Krajina Serbs are most northern shifted Serbs is not because they married Croatian women. If they were Vlachs their autosomal should be same as Albanian or Romanian and is not the case. Krajina Serbs are genetically the farthest from Albanians and Romanians of all Serbs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    I mean Krajina Serbs mixed mostly among themselves, they mixed very rare with Croatians. Fact is that Krajina Serbs are most northern shifted Serbs is not because they married Croatian women. If they were Vlachs their autosomal should be same as Albanian or Romania and is not case. Krajina Serbs are genetically the farthest from Albanians and Romanians of all Serbs.
    But why are they "northern shifted" then?

    Why are they autosomally identical to Croats, not to the rest of Serbs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonomyro View Post
    But why are they "northern shifted" then?

    Why are they autosomally identical to Croats, not to the rest of Serbs?
    Probably because Serbs from Serbia and Montenegrins got extra paleo-Balkanite genes in the last few centuries. Do you know than in eastern Serbia almost all Vlachs are assimilated/serbized. There is about 40 000 Vlachs in eastern Serbia and their real number is probably over 300 000.
    Southern Serbs (Torlakians) are quite Vlach influenced. In the middle age Vlachs were numerous in southern Serbia. Torlakian dialect has paleo-Balkanite influence.
    Western Serbs probably are genetically closer to medieval Serbs, because they migrated early from eastern Herzegovina to northwest. Some natives of western Bosnia were probably absorbed by Herzegovinian Serbs which migrated to western Bosnia in 16th century.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Probably because Serbs from Serbia and Montenegrins got extra paleo-Balkanite genes in the last few centuries. Do you know than in eastern Serbia almost all Vlachs are assimilated/serbized. There is about 40 000 Vlachs in eastern Serbia and their real number is probably over 300 000. Western Serbs probably are genetically closer to medieval Serbs, because they migrated early from eastern Herzegovina to northwest. Some natives of western Bosnia were probably absorbed by Herzegovinian Serbs which migrated to western Bosnia in 16th century.
    But that was Herzegovina, not medieval Serbia. The center of Serbian medieval state was more to the east in Kosovo and Raška. However, it seems that the population of medieval Herzegovina was also "Croatian like" autosomally...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonomyro View Post
    Autosomal DNA from haplogroups?



    That's according to the expectations. Serbs of Banat mostly descend from the medieval Serbian population. That migration is well documented.
    Y DNA of Serbs from Banat (I2a+R1a is only 40,5%)
    I2 - 24,32%
    E-V13 - 18,92%
    R1a - 16,22%
    R1b - 10,81%
    I1 - 10,81%
    J2b-M205 - 8,11%
    J2a - 5,4%
    Q - 2,7%
    N2 - 2,7%

    https://www.poreklo.rs/forum/index.p...80603#msg80603

    Torlakian Serbs from southern Serbia also have about 40% I2a+R1a.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Dema is an manipulator. His posts are cherry-picking. I2a and R1a are much stronger among Krajina Serbs than E1b and J2b.
    Where i said that there is less I2a or R1a in Croatian Krajina or RS in Bosnia? then E1b and J2?
    You have personal issues connected to this being Croatian Serb you have something to prove, which does not hold water.

    For the third time look what i said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    Also note that Slavic haplogroups could eventually always come in while Vlach ones could not. Even this Vlach signal that we find today in them is significant. Its not enough to call them Vlachs for sure, but enough to verify that at least one part of these people was Vlach before
    There is obvious Vlach signal in Krajina Serbs and in RS Serbs that is primary followed by J2-M205 which lacks in Croats, Bosnjaks, Slovens. But also it is followed by higher percentage of E-v13 then already in mentioned neighbors.

    Stop posting rows of copy pasted statistics and spam that no one cares about in J2-M205 thread. Open your thread if you have something to prove.

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    Sorry for a digression, just wanted to help us to get sense of proportions.

    According to 1981 census, Croatian Serbs comprised 11.6% of total population of Croatia and only 6,53% of all Serbs in Yugoslavia.

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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    Where i said that there is less I2a or R1a in Croatian Krajina or RS in Bosnia? then E1b and J2?
    You have personal issues connected to this being Croatian Serb you have something to prove, which does not hold water.

    For the third time look what i said:



    There is obvious Vlach signal in Krajina Serbs and in RS Serbs that is primary followed by J2-M205 which lacks in Croats, Bosnjaks, Slovens. But also it is followed by higher percentage of E-v13 then already in mentioned neighbors.

    Stop posting rows of copy pasted statistics and spam that no one cares about in J2-M205 thread. Open your thread if you have something to prove.
    Stop ******ng me, you clown!
    You said that Krajina Serbs are predominantly of Vlach origin, and is not true. You campared them with Sandžaklije who have +70% Albanian haplos (E-V13, J2b2 and R1b-BY611). Krajina Serbs are much much more Slavic than Sandžaklije, in terms of haplos and autosomal. I expect autosomal results of Banija Serbs, they are probably most northern shifted Serbs, probably even more northern than average for Krajina Serbs. Banija Serbs are one of the lightest pigmented Serbs on average, and majority of them look central European. Until now there is no published results of Banija Serbs. One Banija Serbs who live in Germany got 47% North European at K12 dodecad (that is Slovenian average), but his results are not published yet. I got imformation of one Banija Serb guy, because man who is tested in Germany is his cousin. Banija guy with 47% North European is I2-PH908.
    Serbs from southern Serbia, Kosovo, Montenegro, Šumadija and Banat have more "Vlach" haplos than Krajina Serbs.
    If Krajina Serbs are Vlachs than what are Serbs from southern Serbia, Kosovo, Montenegro, Šumadija and Banat? Maybe super Vlachs?
    In reality Croatians and Slovenians have 40% non-slavic haplogroups, but you deny this fact and your pretend that Croatians and Slovenians have 100% Slavic haplos.
    In reality J2b1-M205 is poor among Albanians and real Vlachs - Aromanians.

    I have seen 2 autosomal results of Lika Serbs. One guy is J2b1-M205, other is I2-PH908.

    J2b1-M205 (80% East Europe)


    I2-PH908 (63% East Europe)


    Both of these Lika Serbs guy are genetically more Slavic than for example Croatian girl Stearsolina (Feeichy) from TA and her Hungarian boyfriend. She got 52% East Europe. They are much more genetically Slavic than Sinan Zirić (Bosniensis), he got 42% East European.
    For Wonomyro: Stersolina is Mala Rijeka on forum.hr, you know her if you are present on forum.hr.
    Question for you: Who is genetically more Slavic, J2b1-M205 or I2-PH908 guy?
    In my opionion J2b1-M205 guy is more Slavic, because East Europe = Slavic genetic. Who cares for haplo. Haplogroup means nothintg.
    J2b1-M205 guy is probably more Slavic genetically than R1a lika Serbs. 80% East Europe is extremly high for south Slavs. He do9es not havge recent east Slavic or east European influence, I checked.
    You wannane Slavic is not it? You have a fetish on Slavic genetic! Be proud ofg you 18% East Europe (aka Slavic DNA), that is very much for Albanian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Both of these Lika Serbs guy are genetically more Slavic than for example Croatian girl Stearsolina (Feeichy) from TA and her Hungarian boyfriend. She got 52% East Europe. They are much more genetically Slavic than Sinan Zirić (Bosniensis), he got 42% East European
    You are cherrypicking all the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonomyro View Post
    You are cherrypicking all the time.
    Guy with 63% East Europe is average for Krajina and Bosnian Serbs (other guy has to much East Europe for all Balkan Slavs).
    I know his other results, this is his K12 dodecad


    What is your problem?
    There is only 2 published autosomal of Lika Serbs, guy with 63% and with 80% East Europe.
    If there is 5 or 10 published results of Lika Serbs I would put them all, but there is only 2.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    This Vlach completely lost his mind. Look at the craps he is posting.
    BTW J2b1 sample is much more Vlach, he has clear Vlach Ydna and 5 % of Middle Eastern autosomal, While I2 guy scores Siberian and he is from Slavic migrations so Slav.

    BTW Sanxhaks and Krajina/RS Vlachs are very good comparison. They both claim they are something they are not based on their religion and Slavicization. Also they are both not living in community they are claiming they belong to.
    I know Sanxhaks have much higher Albanian DNA then Krajina Vlachs have Vlach one, but wait. Sanxhaks are assimilated only recently while Krajina Vlachs long ago. Sanxhaks genetics might not look in few hundred years like it looks today. Just as probably Krajina Vlach genetics has most likely recently take over with Slavic dominance, it must have been much more Vlach before. Because as i explained you, new Vlachs were not coming in while Slavs did.

    Krajina and RS vlachs are much more Vlachs then Croats, Bosnjaks or Slovens.

    They are recorded as Vlach in all documents, they get Vlach DNA, so its pretty clear.

    Your explanations are ridiculous like they were proud to be in Vlach status so they called themselves sons of Vlachs, hahahha did you travel with time machine there so they told you that? Your imagination and complexes are unbelievable.
    Last edited by Dema; 31-07-18 at 18:22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Orthodox Vlachs with Slavic names wrote text in cyrillil in Croatian language in region where in 1596 there was no any Catholic Caroatian. Tell me more about this, it's very funny to me!

    Fixed. Now it makes more sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Guy with 63% East Europe is average for Krajina and Bosnian Serbs (other guy has to much East Europe for all Balkan Slavs).
    I know his other results, this is his K12 dodecad

    What is your problem?
    There is only 2 published autosomal of Lika Serbs, guy with 63% and with 80% East Europe.
    If there is 5 or 10 published results of Lika Serbs I would put them all, but there is only 2.
    Can't you understand that these "western" Serbs have been mixing for centuries with Croats?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonomyro View Post
    Can't you understand that these "western" Serbs have been mixing for centuries with Croats?
    No, mixing with Croatians eas very rare because of different religion.
    Religion was very important in the past. Vast majority of Orthodox people married for Orthodox, and vast majority of Catholics married for Catholics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonomyro View Post
    Can't you understand that these "western" Serbs have been mixing for centuries with Croats?
    No he claims they didnt, he is sure they didnt take Croatian or Bosnian wifes and they didnt mix.

    They plot closer to Croats then to Serbia Serbs because they were always more Northern shifted, their higher Vlach Ydna is just accident.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    I mean Krajina Serbs mixed mostly among themselves, they mixed very rare with Croatians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    No he claims they didnt, he is sure they didnt take Croatian or Bosnian wifes and they didnt mix.

    They plot closer to Croats then to Serbia Serbs because they were always Northern shifted, their higher Vlach Ydna is just accident.
    You will be reported now for ******** and lying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    You will be reported now for ******** and lying.
    I quoted your post where you claim that lol. You must have been candle holder prior to first night marriage consummation, so you know what wifes and from where were they taking. Also we already know you have time machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    No, mixing with Croatians eas very rare because of different religion. Religion was very important in the past. Vast majority of Orthodox people married for Orthodox, and vast majority of Catholics married for Catholics.
    How did they become Serb Orthodox in the first place? In 11th century there were no Orthodox Church in Croatia nor in Bosnia and Herzegovina, not even in Montenegro:

    https://cdn.britannica.com/300x300/3...4-982D2CE5.jpg

    The Orthodox existed only in Serbia, but wait ... did they all come from Serbia?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    I quoted your post where you claim that lol. You must have been candle holder prior to first night marriage consummation, so you know what wifes and from where were they taking. Also we already know you have time machine.
    I don't have time mashine, but I have the registers for few Orthodox villages in northern Dalmatia from 1770 to late 19th century. There was no marriages with Catholic women.
    Listen, I know my maternal line 250 years in the past and I don't have Catholic maternal ancestors. By paternal line I know my ancestors 400 years in the past.

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