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Thread: J2b1-M205 introduced to Eupedia

  1. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    I don't have time mashine, but I have the registers for few Orthodox villages in northern Dalmatia from 1770 to late 19th century. There was no marriages with Catholic women.
    Listen, I know my maternal line 250 years in the past and I don't have Catholic maternal ancestors. By paternal line I know my ancestors 400 years in the past.
    But look what Tesla wrote in his diary:

    I'm glad that also Croats think that I belong to them because my ancestors are from Croatian noble family Draganići from Zadar. As the Croatian nobles in the 16th century, they came to Lika and stayed. Into Lika my ancestors got via Novi Vinodolski. My mother's ancestors, the Kalinić's, are also Croatian noblemen from Novi Vinodolski. My great-grandfather due to circumstances had to leave to the Bosnian Krajina and there he married an Orthodox girl and converted to Eastern Orthodoxy. He had the protruding front teeth so people called him Tesla to the tools with which one process wood and from that comes my current surname of Tesla. It is actually a nickname. My grandfather was an officer in the Lika Regiment, and my father, an Orthodox priest.
    That was the typical case...
    Neopisivo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonomyro View Post
    But look what Tesla wrote in his diary:



    That was the typical case...
    How Tesla can be of Croatian origin when Dema claim that Krajina Serbs are "Vlachs"?
    How any western Serb can be of Croatian origin when Dema claim that they are "Vlachs"?

    Read this (but carefully) about origin of Nikola Tesla http://www.poreklo.rs/2013/02/21/ple...esle/?lang=lat
    Tesla family from Lika with R1a-M458>L1029 is not genetically conected with Croatians which carry this haplogruop. They mach only with Serbs which carry this haplogroup.


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    I dont say they are Vlach but that they are more Vlach influenced then Croats, Slovens and Bosnjaks.
    And that they for sure were more Vlach before then today.

    I dont get it what you have against Vlachs. You trying to deny Vlach influence in Serbs is just ridiculous.

    Btw thanks for making nice J2b1 research thread into a trash.

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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    I dont say they are Vlach but that they are more Vlach influenced then Croats, Slovens and Bosnjaks.
    And that they for sure were more Vlach before then today.

    I dont get it what you have against Vlachs. You trying to deny Vlach influence in Serbs is just ridiculous.

    Btw thanks for making nice J2b1 research thread into a trash.
    People which you call "Vlachs" never called themselves with that name. "Vlachs" is a Slavic synonym for all Balkan sheperds, regardless if they are Latin, Slavic, Greek or any other language speakers. "Vlachs" = sheperd in the Balkans and central Europe, and nothing else. Word "Vlach" originated from Slavic god Veles, protector of sheperds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veles_(god)
    Sarakatsani are ethnic Greeks and Greek speakers, but they are "Vlachs" because they are semi-nomadic sheperds. Their lifestyle is "Vlachic."
    Latin speakers of Balkans call themselves Romani, Rumâni, Armâni, Rrâmânji... but never Vlachs.

    You now claim that Krajina Serbs have only "Vlach" influence, and before 2 messages you claimed that they are same "case" as Sandžaklije.
    Paleo-Balkanic infuence is not same thing as predominantly paleo-Balkanic. Sandžaklije are predominantly paleo-Balkanic, and Krajina Serbs are predominantly Slavic. There is no similarity with them. Case of Sandžaklije is like case Arvanites in Greece.
    Majority of Krajina Serbs were always Serbian speakers, even ancestors of those who have paleo-Balkanic haplogroups are Serbian speakers at least 600 years. On the other hand vast majority of Sandžaklije were Albanian speakers 100 years ago.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    People which you call "Vlachs" never called themselves with that name. "Vlachs" is a Slavic synonym for all Balkan sheperds, regardless if they are Latin, Slavic, Greek or any other language speakers. "Vlachs" = sheperd in the Balkans and central Europe, and nothing else. Word "Vlach" originated from Slavic god Veles, protector of sheperds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veles_(god)
    Sarakatsani are ethnic Greeks and Greek speakers, but they are "Vlachs" because they are semi-nomadic sheperds. Their lifestyle is "Vlachic."
    Latin speakers of Balkans call themselves Romani, Rumâni, Armâni, Rrâmânji... but never Vlachs.
    You now claim that Krajina Serbs have only "Vlach" influence, and before 2 messages you claimed that they are same "case" as Sandžaklije.
    Paleo-Balkanic infuence is not same thing as predominantly paleo-Balkanic. Sandžaklije are predominantly paleo-Balkanic, and Krajina Serbs are predominantly Slavic. There is no similarity with them. Case of Sandžaklije are like case Arvanites in Greece.
    Majority of Krajina Serbs were always Serbian speakers, even ancestors of those who have paleo-Balkanic haplogroups are Serbian speakers at least 600 years. On the other hand vast majority of Sandžaklije were Albanian speakers 100 years ago.
    This is Deretiç pseudoscience.
    17 Dec.
    Paget to the Council.

    Now the Council's letters seem to imply (words quoted) that the King will keep no strangers save the Albanoys.

    Cales, 17 Dec. 1545. Signed.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    How Tesla can be of Croatian origin when Dema claim that Krajina Serbs are "Vlachs"? How any western Serb can be of Croatian origin when Dema claim that they are "Vlachs"? Read this (but carefully) about origin of Nikola Tesla http://www.poreklo.rs/2013/02/21/ple...esle/?lang=lat Tesla family from Lika with R1a-M458>L1029 is not genetically conected with Croatians which carry this haplogruop. They mach only with Serbs which carry this haplogroup
    These stories from Poreklo are just the fairy tales. Serbs from Lika are autosomally identical to their Croat neighbours. Given that these Serbs were called "Vlachs" in the past, the Croatian genetic input must have been dramatic durring the last 300 or more years.

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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wonomyro View Post
    These stories from Poreklo are just the fairy tales. Serbs from Lika are autosomally identical to their Croat neighbours. Given that these Serbs were called "Vlachs" in the past, the Croatian genetic input must have been dramatic durring the last 300 or more years.
    Tesla was 100% Romanian, everyone know that R1a is pure Vlachic hapgroup.

    His family came to Lika from Sibiu, and his real name was Nicolae Teslae.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Tesla was 100% Vlach, everyone know that R1a is pure Vlachic hapgroup. His family came to Lika from Sibiu, and his real name was Nicolae Teslae.
    Haplogroup is not what determines your ethnicity. In case of Serbs it is the religion that plays the role.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonomyro View Post
    Haplogroup is not what determines your ethnicity. In case of Serbs it is the religion that plays the role.
    You can speak only in Croatian name that thing. It's well known that there is no Croatian nation without Catholicism. Croatians which are not Catholics don't exist and never existed.

    Croatian nation was created in 19th century due to Catholic church.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Croatians which are not Catholics don't exist and never existed.
    You are constantly demonstrating ignorance on this forum. Croats are mostly Catholoc but:

    There were protestant Croats, not only catholic. They were famous for printing books in Croatian language.

    There were also muslim Croats. This is the list of Ottoman pashas who were Croats:

    Dilaver-paša Hrvat (=Croat)
    Sijavuš-paša Hrvat
    Pijale-paša Hrvat
    Sinan-paša Hrvat
    Rustem-paša Hrvat
    Mural-paša Hrvat
    Memi-paša Hrvat
    Memi-paša Hrvat
    Mahmut-paša Hrvat
    Tahvil-paša Kulenović Hrvat
    Junus-paša Hrvat
    ...

    The Croat ethnonym was never used to name any Church, faith nor believers of any religion group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Croatian nation was created in 19th century due to Catholic church.
    That is not possible because Catholic Church in 19th century was promoting panslavistic ideas, not Croatian ethnogenesis. One of the most famous and influental Croatian bishop of 19th century was J. J. Strossmayer:

    Strossmayer supported the union of all south Slavic peoples under the aegis of the Habsburgs, and promoted religious unification through the use of the Slavonic rite both in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. He served as the papal nuncio for Serbia and visited that country seven times between 1852 and 1886, and he also helped establish the concordat between the Holy See and the state of Montenegro in 1866.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Juraj_Strossmayer

    You should stop spreading false information.
    Last edited by Wonomyro; 27-07-18 at 14:03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    People which you call "Vlachs" never called themselves with that name. "Vlachs" is a Slavic synonym for all Balkan sheperds, regardless if they are Latin, Slavic, Greek or any other language speakers. "Vlachs" = sheperd in the Balkans and central Europe, and nothing else. Word "Vlach" originated from Slavic god Veles, protector of sheperds
    Krajina Vlachs specifically called themselves Vlachs. Even after Slavicization, they still knew their true origin. No matter of your complexes and personal issues.

    Etymology
    The word "Vlach" is etymologically derived from the ethnonym of a Celtic tribe,[8] adopted into Proto-Germanic *Walhaz which meant "stranger", from *Wolkā-[9](Caesar's Latin: Volcae, Strabo and Ptolemy's Greek: Ouolkai). [10] Via Latin, in Gothic, as *walhs, the ethnonym took on the meaning "foreigner" or "Romance-speaker",[10] and was adopted into Greek Vláhi (Βλάχοι), Slavic Vlah, Hungarian oláh and olasz, etc.[11][12] The root word was notably adopted in Germanic for Walesand Walloon (German: Welsch),[8] and in Poland Włochy became an exonym for Italians.[10] Via both Germanic and Latin, the term started to signify "stranger, foreigner" also in the Balkans, where it in its early form was used for Romance-speakers, but the term eventually took on the meaning of "shepherd, nomad".[8] The Romance-speaking communities themselves however used the endonym (they called themselves) "Romans".[13] During the early history of the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans, there was a social class of Vlachs in Serbia and Macedonia, made up of Christians who served as auxiliary forces and had the same rights as Muslims.[14] In Croatia, the term became derogatory, and Vlasi was used for the ethnic Serb community.[8]
    Romanian scholars have suggested that the term Vlach appeared for the first time in the Eastern Roman Empire and was subsequently spread to the Germanic- and then Slavic-speaking worlds through the Norsemen (possibly by Varangians), who were in trade and military contact with Byzantium during the early Middle Ages (see also Blakumen).[15][16]
    Nowadays, the term "Vlachs" (also known under other names, such as Koutsovlachs, Tsintsars, Karagouni, Chobani, Vlasi, etc.[17]) is used in scholarship for the Romance-speaking communities in the Balkans, especially those in Greece, Albania and Macedonia.

    We know that J2b1 but also Krici tribe were Latin speakers, and that is exactly what we find in Krajina and RS Serbs, but very rare in Bosnjaks, Croats or Slovens. Its clear Latin speaking signal in Krajina and RS Serbs. accompanied with higher Ev13 which also most likely got thru Latin speakers of native Balkan origin.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs#Medieval_usage

    Medieval usage


    6th century

    Byzantine historians used the term Vlachs for Latin speakers.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs#6th_century



    In year 1642, when Krajina Vlachs sent letter to Zagreb bishop, where they say: "da bi Laških sinov ne bilo, puste bi Kraine bile". Even tho in old dialect i think that you understand it very well, but im still going to translate it. They say: If there was no sons of Vlachs, Krajina would be empty.

    https://bs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravoslavlje_u_Hrvatskoj#Historija

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Bishop of Zagreb Franjo Ergelski in 1635 stated that, among Orthodox Vlachs, almost half of were former Catholics, who escaped and joined Vlachs, abandoned Catholic, and converted to the Orthodox faith.
    Zagrebački biskup Franjo Ergelski je 1635. tvrdio da je među pravoslavnim Vlasima bila gotovo polovica katolika (..) Isti biskup se ujedno žalio kako su mnogi kmetovi koji su pobjegli među Vlahe napuštali katoličku vjeru i prelazili na pravoslavlje.
    Vlach status was a better option then the serfdom. The migrations were permanent during the entire 17th century. Some were leaving their wives, marrying the Vlach women and converting to the Orthodox faith.

    http://povijest.net/o-vlaskom-pitanju/

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    There have been some changes on Yfull regarding J2-M205. General TMRCA was crippled from 6100 years to 5300 years. Formed 15900 ybp, TMRCA 5300 ybp.
    Lets hope we dont get any other major hits like this on our overall TMRCA.

    Also Balkan mainland branch Y22059 TMRCA has fallen down. According to Flor it was because of my bigY test. Because only 3 out of my 6 novels (3 best quality, 3 acceptable) fall into comBED region that are used to calculate TMRCA.

    Their previous calculation within this group of Y22059>Y22063* was 800 years TMRCA. But with my test they have come up to 550 years. Which is frankly impossible because we know based on STR markers that difference for sure has to be higher and not lower. Also not that lower. By Flor it should be around 750 even with my only 3 comBED out of 6 and not 550 which is a bit puzzling.
    I was at first disappointed on Yfull, after all precise TMRCA calculation is why i payed them in first place. But Albanian and J2 administrator Flor has convinced me that its not Yfull mistake because they use same methodology for all sampoles, but bigY test also has inconsistent coverage and that is reason why we see these swings on clades with little tested samples. It should rise when more people do NGS test.

    Also apparently in future they should include STR calculation into their TMRCA estimation which will help with younger clader with little tested samples.
    Lets wait few days and see if there is any change, also when i click on Age estimation tab on Yfull i dont see any info there so lets just wait and see what they will come up with.

    Except that there is no other major news.
    Last edited by Dema; 01-08-18 at 00:37.

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    Anyways as this actual Yfull SNP calculation within Y22063* is obviously wrong, i believe it would be safer to consider their STR calculation at the moment.
    By their STR calculation where they compared my 353 STR markers with other 2 members inside of Y22066>Y22063*, average distance is 0.085.

    If we base on this post that Mich Glich has previously posted that is about 1000 years. Which should be more realistic.

    So my average distance from other two samples inside of Y22063 should be 1000 years, which should automatically also be realistic TMRCA of Y22063 with this 3 samples that are present.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mich Glitch View Post
    0.1 GD (by Infinite alleles model) it's approximately 2000 YBP.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mich Glitch View Post
    0.08 it's about 1000 YBP.
    Last edited by Dema; 31-07-18 at 18:55.

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    Looks like i have none typical situation where only 50 % of my novels fall into comBED region which Yfull uses to calculate TMRCA. Therefore thats why they have come up with incorrect result.

    So far what i seen people usually get 80 % or more of comBED novels. Im asking few more people to see thier situation with comBED and how many they get within their novels. Also i wonder other two samples inside of Y22063* how many comBED novels they have out of their best quality and acceptable novels..

    I might contact Yfull also for explanation, but ill just wait some time and see does anything changes.
    Last edited by Dema; 02-08-18 at 21:04.

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    Regarding J2b1>Y22059 and Vlach question, i have to make it clear one more time, that when we say Vlach we mean exclusively Roman Empire remains and Latinophones.
    There is so many various meanings for word Vlach that its confusing to use it. Specifically J2b1>Y22059, that we are debating here about, is almost none existent in Aromuns.
    So it was clearly some other wave of Roman time migrants, perhaps Byzantine one judging by TMRCA 1000 - 1300 years.

    So J2-Y22059 is most likely from Roman Empire migrations from Levantine provinces. So to make it short we just say Vlach, because in Balkan they were Latinophone. And some of them like specifically J2b1>Y22059* also later developed into Latinophone 12 century Montenegrin tribe known as Krichi.

    There is no connection with J2b1 and other Vlach groups except of same adopted Latin language they spoken. Because of Orthodox religion and Slavicization of their territories most of J2b1>Y22059 members later identified with Serbs.
    I believe about 90 or 95 per cent identifies with Serbs, even tho we were all clearly Latinophones not so long ago, and before that native Levantines and Semitic speakers.
    Last edited by Dema; 05-08-18 at 23:23.

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    0 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dema View Post
    Regarding J2b1>Y22059 and Vlach question, i have to make it clear one more time, that when we say Vlach we mean exclusively Roman Empire remains and Latinophones.
    There is so many various meanings for word Vlach that its confusing to use it. Specifically J2b1>Y22059, that we are debating here about, is almost none existent in Aromuns.
    So it was clearly some other wave of Roman time migrants, perhaps Byzantine one judging by TMRCA 1000 - 1300 years.

    So J2-Y22059 is most likely from Roman Empire migrations from Levantine provinces. So to make it short we just say Vlach, because in Balkan they were Latinophone. And some of them like specifically J2b1>Y22059* also later developed into Latinophone 12 century Montenegrin tribe known as Krichi.

    There is no connection with J2b1 and other Vlach groups except of same adopted Latin language they spoken. Because of Orthodox religion and Slavicization of their territories most of J2b1>Y22059 members later identified with Serbs.
    I believe about 90 or 95 per cent identifies with Serbs, even tho we were all clearly Latinophones not so long ago, and before that native Levantines and Semitic speakers.
    Latin speaking Balkanites never call themselves Vlachs. They call themselves Rramâni, Armâni, Români, Rumâni, Rumeri... They always indentified themselves with Rome.
    Only people which call themselves "Vlachs" were sheperds of Slavic blood (sheperd caste). They celebrated Slavic god Veles (Volos) protector of sheperds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veles_(god)
    Vlachs = Slavic sheperd
    Latin speaking Balkanites = Rrâmani, Armâni, Români, Rumâni, Rumeri...

    Czech sheperds were known as Valašsi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valašská_Senice

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    Latin speaking Balkanites never call themselves Vlachs. They call themselves Rramâni, Armâni, Români, Rumâni, Rumeri... They always indentified themselves with Rome.
    Only people which call themselves "Vlachs" were sheperds of Slavic blood (sheperd caste). They celebrated Slavic god Veles (Volos) protector of sheperds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veles_(god)
    Vlachs = Slavic sheperd
    Latin speaking Balkanites = Rrâmani, Armâni, Români, Rumâni, Rumeri...

    Czech sheperds were known as Valašsi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valašská_Senice
    Vlach means different things at different times. Just because the Aroumanians referred to themselves Armani doesn't mean that they weren't Vlachs.

    Vlach refers to various groups of Balkans, not necessarily related to one another, who spoke Vulgar Latin and often practised transhumance. Later on in SOME parts of the Balkans, but not all, the term Vlach was applied as a social category rather than an ethnic one.

    This shouldn't be that difficult to understand.

    One of the main streets in Zagreb is Vlaska Ulica (Vlach Street) named as such not because of shepherds nor a Balkan social class but rather because Italian shopkeepers and traders set up on that street.

    There are histories beyond that of what Serbians are taught. That doesn't mean that Serbian history is always wrong (it isn't). Try and do some comparative research, it'll help you understand and play catch up.

  19. #194
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Vlachs" is a Slavic synonym for all Balkan sheperds, regardless if they are Latin, Slavic, Greek or any other language speakers. "Vlachs" = sheperd in the Balkans and central Europe, and nothing else. Word "Vlach" originated from Slavic god Veles, protector of sheperds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veles_(god)
    Only people which call themselves "Vlachs" were sheperds of Slavic blood (sheperd caste). They celebrated Slavic god Veles (Volos) protector of sheperds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veles_(god)
    Vlachs = Slavic sheperd

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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LABERIA View Post
    Deretić is right for origin of word vlach. Vlachs = Slavic sheperds which celebtated Slavic god Veles. VELES = VLACHS.

    Romanians are mix of vulgar Latin speaking imigrants from Epirus, Thessaly, Macedonia and Bulgaria which arrived to modern Romania from 12th to 14th century, and Slavs which lived in modern Romania since early middle age, plus minor Turkic influence (from Cumans, Pechenegs and Tatars).
    Vlachs from eastern Serbia are originally Rumâni, they adopted Slavic name Vlachs from Serbs in the last 100-150 years.
    Majority of Latin speaking population of Epirus, southern Albania, Theassaly and Macedonia always call themselves Rramâni and Armâni, and never Vlachs.
    Megleno-Vlachs are only Latin speaking Balkanites which call themselves Vlachs, because they were under strong Slavic influence and they adopted Slavic word Vlachs for ethnic name. Megleno-Vlachs were always farmers, unlike other Latin speaking Balkanites which were semi-nomadic sheperds, that is also Slavic legacy among Megleno-Vlachs.

    Vast majority of people which call themselves Vlachs in the middle age were genetically Slavic and Slavic speakers. Vlachs = Slavic sheperd caste (name originated from slavic god Veles).
    Last edited by Bachus; 07-08-18 at 10:03.

  21. #196
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    Bachus its good to know that you're an official Deretic subscriber (serbs are aliens that created civillization and that started the white race theory blah blah)

    The origin of the term Vlachs is not a mystery and is well recorded and documented. No need for you to make it up


    LINK:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs

    Vlachs (English: /ˈvlɑːk/ or /ˈvlæk/, or rarely /ˈvlɑːx/), also Wallachians (and many other variants[1]), is a historical term from the Middle Ages which designates an exonym (a name given by foreigners) used mostly for the Romanians who lived north and south of the Danube.[2]

    The word Vlach/Wallachian (and other variants such as Vlah, Valah, Valach, Voloh, Blac, Oláh, Vlas, Ilac, Ulah, etc.[1]) is etymologically derived from the ethnonym of a Celtic tribe,[8]adopted into Proto-Germanic *Walhaz which meant "stranger", from *Wolkā-[9] (Caesar's Latin: Volcae, Strabo and Ptolemy's Greek: Ouolkai). [10] Via Latin, in Gothic, as *walhs, the ethnonym took on the meaning "foreigner" or "Romance-speaker",[10] and was adopted into Greek Vláhi (Βλάχοι), Slavic Vlah, Hungarian oláh and olasz, etc.[11][12] The root word was notably adopted in Germanic for Wales and Walloon (German: Welsch),[8] and in Poland Włochy or in Hungary olasz became an exonym for Italians.[10][1]
    Historically, the term was used primarily for the Romanians.[1][3] Testimonies from the 13th-14th centuries show that, although in the European (and even extra-European) space they were called Vlachs or Wallachians (Oláh in Hungarian, Vláchoi (βλάχοι) in Greek, Volóxi (воло́хи) in Russian, Walachen in German, Valacchi in Italian, Valaques in French, Valacos in Spanish), the Romanians used for themselves the endonym "Rumân/Român", from the Latin "Romanus" (in memory of Rome).[1]
    Via both Germanic and Latin, the term started to signify "stranger, foreigner" also in the Balkans, where it in its early form was used for Romance-speakers, but the term eventually took on the meaning of "shepherd, nomad".[8] The Romance-speaking communities themselves however used the endonym (they called themselves) "Romans".[13]
    During the early history of the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans, there was a social class of Vlachs in Serbia and Macedonia, made up of Christians who served as auxiliary forces and had the same rights as Muslims.[14] In Croatia, the term became derogatory, and Vlasi was used for the ethnic Serb community.[8]
    Romanian scholars have suggested that the term Vlach appeared for the first time in the Eastern Roman Empire and was subsequently spread to the Germanic- and then Slavic-speaking worlds through the Norsemen (possibly by Varangians), who were in trade and military contact with Byzantium during the early Middle Ages (see also Blakumen).[15][16]
    Nowadays, the term Vlachs (also known under other names, such as "Koutsovlachs", "Tsintsars", "Karagouni", "Chobani", "Vlasi", etc.[17]) is used in scholarship for the Romance-speaking communities in the Balkans, especially those in Greece, Albania and Macedonia.[18][19] In Serbia the term Vlach (Serbian Vlah, plural Vlasi) is also used to refer to Romanian speakers, especially those living in eastern Serbia.[3] Aromanians themselves use the endonym "Armãn" (plural "Armãni") or "Rãmãn" (plural "Rãmãni"), etymologically from "Romanus", meaning "Roman". Megleno-Romanians designate themselves with the Macedonian form Vla (plural Vlaš) in their own language.[3]



    "As we have already stressed, the mass evacuation of the Albanians from their triangle is the only effective course we can take. In order to relocate a whole people, the first prerequisite is the creation of a suitable psychosis. This can be done in various ways." - Vaso Cubrilovic

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    Albanian Bloodlines Project got another J2b1a. At the moment he cannot be further classified then J2b1-M205>? but seems he might be connected with one of clades that is also found in Greece but with higher TMRCA, according to ungrateful Y37 calculation, TMRCA is around 1500 years or GD 9/37 with that Greek sample.

    I would call it South Albanian - Greek branch of probably Phoenician or Roman migration.
    Last edited by Dema; 16-08-18 at 23:43.

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    Also, since now i can see 3 tested Krichi surnames, i am more ready to accept Krichi theory. Krichi tribe was for sure predominantly J2b1a and probably expansion of all J2>Y22059+ was not far away from Montenegro area.
    Last edited by Dema; 17-08-18 at 21:29.

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    First of all, all of this was really cancerous to read : D I thought that ban would last longer, so I haven't been visiting the thread. I'd just like to add a few things that are not too related to genetics, but to geography of my bloodline, and also to Vlach derivative names around the place where I live. I currently live in Leskovac, but my ancestors came from Novo Selo, which was near Mlaciste (which was also known for having a large amount of Sarakatsani [Karakačani, which could have also been called Vlasi or Vlachs due to their shepherding]). I will post a few pictures of places that are near my town that bear the name of Vlachs. These include Vlase no.1 (Village near the Kosovo boreder), Vlase no.2 (Village near Leskovac), Vlasotince (a small town near Leskovac), Vlasina (a river flowing through Vlasotince) and last, but not the least, Vlasinsko jezero (a south east of Leskovac). All of these names of places clearly show an abundant influence of Vlachs in this area. In my village (Orasac, east of Leskovac) there is a story that we come from Greeks (Sarakatsani), but as I concluded before with Dema, it might be that most J2b1 migrants were called Greeks because of the influence of Eastern Roman Empire and Greek language in Levant. I also can't help but notice that Dema keeps saying that our J2b1 forebears must have spoken Latin. I think it's more likely that Greek was an official language in Levant back then, since the cultural and language barrier was the major influence behind the division between East and West Roman Empire.


    Take care y'all :)

    P.S. I can't post links or pictures since I don't have enough posts here -.-' If you want the link or the picture, dm me.

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    Hi to everyone. I just wanted to mention that there is a small town Qirmizi Qasaba in Azerbaijan with population over 10000 people and all of them are J2b1. I will be very thankful to any respond on this subject.

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