I played little with calculators and STRs yesterday, trying to see genetic difference within PF7321+ and CTS1969- where we have Ukraine, Oman, Yemen, Saudi and Lebanon samples.
So IDs, 364868 Oman, 214400 Yemen, M6123 UAE, N53374 Ukraine, 779972 Lebanon, 755698 Saudi. (Please let me know if i got any of sample wrong)
Yemen and UAE samples are pretty close, GD 7/111 and they show TMRCA of only 400 years.
With Oman sample TMRCA goes up to 1650 years. Adding Lebanon sample TMRCA went up to 2900 years.
Then adding Saudi sample it goes 3,350 years. And finally adding Ukraine sample we got 4300 years TMRCA.
It is not much different from what Yfull estimated = 6000 years, these variations are normal, it is just to see relative genetic distance.
So i think we are getting brother clade of CTS1969 developed here. And regarding STRs, Ukraine sample is still isolated with no one really close and it might be distant migration, probably before Common Era.
So i believe Yfull tree will further change in future and some samples will be regrouped.
What we need is some expert SNPs and STRs analysis again. (I will probably learn SNPs after i take bigY)
Regarding Roman Gladiator there has been article before, where also our Ukraine sample have been mentioned:
For the analysis currently 15 M205+ chrY NGS results are available with varying coverage and data access. Those results so far build 10 subhaplogroups (some tentative) mostly without more then two equivalent SNPs. See tree.j2-m172.info/?Hg=J2b13DT26.chrY.bam was ancestral to some of them (PH4306, M280, PF7315/Z1621, YP154, YP56, YP22/Z28761, YP7) many had no-call/s (YP17/Z8764, CTS1969, Y18947, PF7320, PF7370, Z38486, PH1089, PH2734, PH2514, PF7342, YP106).
A non-exhaustive check of novel/private SNPs was also done with no shared derived variant except an ambigous result for Hg19,b37 8197067, G->A, YFS090749, 1G- 1A+ which is derived in N53374/YF01501 Vinnytsia Ukraine 44A+. So unfortunately no more informative matches substream to M205 seem to exist currently to further reconstruct the origin and ancestry of 3DRIF-26 with the following conclusions:
- the low-coverage and short chrY length of 3DRIF-26 could fail to detect a relation to some of this basal subhaplogroups, especially the samples derived for Y18947 and the gre-3 Greek Hallast et al 2014 sample also having restricted sequence lenght.
- The lineage of 3DRIF-26 could have died out
- Any sample being M205+ and negative for YP17/Z8764 and CTS1969 (including subgroups) is particularly interesting for further Y-NGS testing, especially if having British paternal lineage ancestry to exclude a relation to 3DRIF-26.
- A NGS resequencing of 3DRIF-26 with higher read depth could facilitate the discovery of shared subhaplogroups of M205
- A standard Y-STR DYS marker sequencing (at least a Y23 panel, preferably the Y37 FTDNA panel) could allow to scan Y-haplotype databases for possibly interesting matches
Well, now we have some new bigY tests so it would be nice to analyse them too as they are also CTS1969-
Discoveries and statements by Ted Kandell (OGF) about 3DRIF-26:an extinct mtDNA H5* C5349T C6041T and H5* isn’t found in Arabia or Egypt.
[Davidski/Eurogenes qpAdm:] His Anatolian Neolithic is 52.8%, extremely high, the same as Sardinians who are 50%-60%. His next best fit, pretty close, is Samaritan 94% Yoruba 6%. After that the chi squared gets much higher and the probability rapidly decreases.
Also, he wasn’t beheaded but his head was bashed in the “coup de grace” given to defeated gladiators. He wasn’t buried with grave goods, either.
“J2e” M314/M12 xM241 was found by Shen et al. (2004) in 2 of 20 (10%) of Yemenite Jews
Full article:
https://j2-m172.info/2016/01/exogen...f-26-is-j2b1-m205-and-likely-middle-eastener/
It probably exists among Yemenite Jews, but that is normal as entire M205 is somewhat proto Semitic, and potentially pre Semitic.
Today generally, haplogroup is spread much or less in entire Middle East, but to be honest i barely know any Jew that belongs to J2b1.
Even tho it looks like its present in some isolated Jewish groups;
There are two samples that i know of, one is Mumbai Jew from India, and another is maybe Sephardi Jew from Spain (still need confirmation) but generally J2b1 is very rare, and almost none-existent among modern Jews, but its presence is highest among all other populations of Middle East